Tennis Anyone?

[havok653]

Federer is only missing the French right? Then he'll have all the Slams in his trophy case.

That is correct!

 

[tonyboy]

I love to watch tennis. Having never played it I may have finally found the place where someone can explain the scoring to me.

Please someone. Explain to me how this game is scored. The TV announcers never do, none of my brothers (very sports oriented) can explain it to me.

How is a game scored.
How many games in a match.
Why do final, published, scores show somes numbers in ().
What score causes a game to end.
What determines the order of serve.
In doubles, is there a certain zone each teammate must observe or can each go after any ball.

Please give me a hand here guys. It's a great viewing sport, just can't figure it all out.

 

[captain_bligh]

I love to watch tennis. Having never played it I may have finally found the place where someone can explain the scoring to me.

Please someone. Explain to me how this game is scored. The TV announcers never do, none of my brothers (very sports oriented) can explain it to me.

How is a game scored.
How many games in a match.
Why do final, published, scores show somes numbers in ().
What score causes a game to end.
What determines the order of serve.
In doubles, is there a certain zone each teammate must observe or can each go after any ball.

Please give me a hand here guys. It's a great viewing sport, just can't figure it all out.

It is arcane! Let me have a go but others can do better surely.

1) the score in a game for each point goes zero (love), 15,30,40 - game
winner must win by two points. 40-40 is deuce. next point is advantage. Server's score is called first.

2) first to 6 games win the set - it is sometimes longer (e.g. 7-5 ) as traditionally winner must win by two games. These days 6-6 generally leads to a tiebreaker game in which the player who first gets to 7 points wins a 7th game and gets the set at 7-6. It can go longer as player must win a tiebreaker by 2 points (10-8 ) [answer to question 3] Usually 3 sets to a match but sometimes 2, sometimes best of 3, sometimes best of 5.

4) see 1)

5) Toss of a coin or racquet spin up or down.

6) This can get complicated and I refrain from trying. There are many rules and many conventions.


Fans, please correct me if I've got any of this wrong.

 

[torontoguy22]

I'm a serious tennis enthusiast (in the past few years anyways). That includes watching or playing. I just can't get enough!

 

[havok653]

I think Captin Bligh did a good job, but I'll try and put my own spin on things (since most of it makes no sense, sometimes it can help to hear it a different way.)

1. How is a game scored?

Like Captin Bligh said it goes Love (Zero), 15, 30, 40, Game. There is no point in trying to figure out why it's like this. It makes absolutly no sense. The best way to look at it is to think of Love as 0, 15 = 1, 30=2, 40=3, and Game = 4. It's the first to 4, but you have to win by two. When it's tied at 40-40 then it's called Duece. From there it's just whoever wins the deuce point AND the next point. And yes this could take 5 years if need be.

2)How many games in a match?

The actual question should be, "how many games in a set?" A match consist of 2 out of 3 sets, or 3 out of 5 sets. Girls and doubles pretty much always to 2 out of 3 and the guys always to 3 out of 5 in the big tournys, but sometimes do 2 out of 3 in the smaller ones. Now a set is the first to 6 games (the things in #1), but you have to win by 2. So if it's 5-5 then it will go at least two more games. If it gets to 6-6 then you go to a tiebreaker (unless it's the final set at the Ausstralian Open, French Open, or Wimbledon... they'll keep going on and on until someone wins my two). A tiebreaker is actually scored normal. 1=1 and 2=2. It's good like that. First to 7 points and you have to win by two. Again these are the types of things that COULD go on for days if it were to just happen like that. It never has though. I think the longest tiebreaker on record is like 23-21 or something like that.

3. Why do final, published, scores show somes numbers in ()?

That's usually to indicate what the score in the tiebreaker was. If somone wins a set 7-6 that means it went to a tiebreaker. They'll usually only put one number in the tiebreaker and that's the score of whoever lost. So if it reads 7-6 (2) then the score of the tiebreaker was 7-2. If it's 5 or below that means the person who won the tiebreaker had 7 points. If the number is higher, an 8 for instance, that means the person who won the breaker had 10 (2 more than the loser of the set.)

4) What determines the order of serve?

I couldn't of said it better than the good captain.

5) What score causes a game to end?

Unfortunetly the winning point is actually called, "Game." So for this instance lets say it's 4, because that would be it's number if they didn't make this the most confusing game EVER! so it could be 0(love)-4, 1(15)-4, 2(30)-4, but it can't be 3(40)-4 because you have to win by two. At that point you just keep going.

6)What determines the order of serve?

Again, the captain said it all.

7) In doubles, is there a certain zone each teammate must observe or can each go after any ball?

DURING a point either guy can hit the ball no matter where it is on the court (unless it's on the other side of the net because you can't cross the net... well there is one exception but I wont get into that). However; there is a certain order to serving and recieving that does require a certain partner to be the one who hits the ball. Teamates take turns serving and returning. You can switch the order inbetween sets, but that's it. We'll take Bob and Mike Bryan for instance. If Bob serves the first game then Mike will have to serve the third game and Bob will have to serve the 5th game and so on. Also; one partner is responsible for a side of the court when they return. So if Bob starts off returning on the right side of the court then everytime it's the servers time to serve to the right side then Bob will have to be the one to return to it. Same goes with Mike on the left side. However; like serving, you can switch which side of the court you take inbetween sets.

With that I apologize for boring the snot out of you all! Hope it's at least somewhat helpful though.

 

[captain_bligh]

Thanks Havok. As in most situations in life, new perspectives give additional clarity. The extra discussion of tiebreaker scoring will be helpful to people.

Someday someone should write about how it all got to be like this!

But, I do so love the game. (no pun intended)

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As a subject for discussion:

In the clay season now in progress in Europe, do you think that the current lot of North Americans could make a reasonable showing if they put their minds to it?
Or is it just a game they don't want to learn?

 

[elle]

As a subject for discussion:

In the clay season now in progress in Europe, do you think that the current lot of North Americans could make a reasonable showing if they put their minds to it?
Or is it just a game they don't want to learn?

they think they are too good for it.

this is proven by the fact that some of them are still in north America...or have just left.

they would rather the grass season which is like less than a month long and 3 or 4 tournaments and usually one player can only fit into 1 or 2 tournaments.

 

[havok653]

I'm with you on that one Captain! I would LOVE to know what idiot decided 15, 30, 40 would be a good idea. My best guess is that the elitiest were trying to keep the peasants from playing tennis by making it so confusing that they couldn't figure out how to play, lol.

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I think all of the americans COULD do alright on clay, they just don't have the dedication to it. It's only one of the majors and it takes a lot of preperation time to adjust to. They're all more concerned with the hardcourts and Wimbledon to put much effort into the clay season.

I think a big part of it also has to do with being brought up on clay vs. being brought up on hard courts or grass. It's a lot easier to get a clean winner on the grass and even the hard courts. The ball moves through the court so much quicker than it does on clay. The clay courters are you used to being pacient and working the point until they get their clear opening. So the American's get frusterated that they didn't get a winner on their shots so they end up screwing up the next one. If you'll watch the american guys usually rack up a LOT more errors on the clay than they do on any other surface.

But all things said, Agassi and Courier both did it. So maybe there is hope yet! I've got my fingers crossed.

 

[brandn3w27]

im the biggest fucking tennis nut ever... especially women's tennis, for the quality... its not all serve and point, like a men's match can be

ive been to the us open last 3 years, greatest days of the year

that and i've been playing since i was 10

 

[captain_bligh]

I'm with you on that one Captain! I would LOVE to know what idiot decided 15, 30, 40 would be a good idea. My best guess is that the elitiest were trying to keep the peasants from playing tennis by making it so confusing that they couldn't figure out how to play, lol.

I bet you're right, Havoc!

From Google:

Why Is Tennis Scoring So Weird?

Tennis scoring has its origin in medieval numerology. The number 60 was considered to be a "good" or "complete" number back then, in about the same way you'd consider 100 to be a nice round figure today. The medieval version of tennis, therefore, was based on 60--the four points when 15, 30, 45 (which we abbreviate to 40) and 60, or game.

There's a common misconception that the equally puzzling "love," or zero, derives from the French l'oeuf, "egg," or, by extension, goose-egg or zero. Actually, it comes from the idea of playing for love, rather than money--the implication being that one who scores zero consistently can only be motivated by a true love for the game. Tennis originated in the 12th or 13th century in France, where it was called jeu de paume ("palm game"). It seems to have derived its present appellation from the French habit of called "tenez!" (take that!!, as Andy Roddick might shout) before serving.

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Elsewhere I saw that "deuce" is thought to come from"deux" with the meaning that two more points were needed to win the game.

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I wonder if "bagel" (to win a set at 6-0) will eventually find it's way into the mythology!

 

[havok653]

I think you just explained it as good as anyone could ever do it. The French came up with it. Enough said, right? LoL. Jk to all the french people out there.

I think it's strange that they think deuce is from "deux." I'm guessing that "deux" is also french, at which point I would think the French would still say "duex," but they say "egilitte"... or however they spell it.

I bet bagel will get into the mythology of the whole thing! Shortly followed by the up-and-coming "breadstick" (meaning 6-1).

 

[captain_bligh]

I played down in S. America a few times (on clay! I didn't like it either.) and they used "iguales" for "deuce "and "cero" instead of "love". Modern corruptions of fine medieval traditions perhaps.

I had not heard of "breadstick".

 

[havok653]

OK, dudes. Now that we've taken care of tennis scoring, can anyone explain how tennis "seeds" are determined?

Obviously Roger FedEx is #1, because he's a finely crafted Swiss precision instrument. Even I can compute that one.

But what about the rest of the seeded players? Who figures out the comparative rankings? And is the same formula used for every tournament???

I'm not 100% sure about the whole seeding thing (and I'm not sure most of the pros do either.) I know it takes a lot of things into account. You're ranking is definetly one of the most important things. They also take into account how likely you are to win the tournement (ie. how well you've been doing during the warm up tournements to the grand slam).

Some tounrys have "speacial seeding." I'm pretty sure Wimbeldon can do whatever they want with the seeds.

Almost everytime the seeds come out someone will bitch about they should be seeded higher. I know last year at Wimbledon Lleyton Hewitt had a problem with being seeded #3 instead of #2 (which was given to Roddick). Lleyton is a former Wimbledon champion and #2 in the world, and Andy was #3 int he world but made it to the finals the year before. The reason it was such a big deal was because whoever was #3 would have to face Federer in the Semi's instead of in the finals. And sure enough Federer took out Hewitt in the semi's and then Andy in the finals.

In other words... it's all very complicated.

Oh and Captain Bligh... I LOVE CLAY! I've played a few times down in Houston where they got the guy that designed Rolland Garros to come down and do their courts. I'm a natural slider though, and I even slide on hard courts which will be the death of me one day I'm sure. I just can't get enough of the clay!

 

[elle]

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[elle]

along with the previous post...

i think it has to do with your performance on the given surface too, i just know it varies from tourny to tourny, event to event.

i guess its like a very educated guess or prediction...sometimes i think a lot of it rides on how the organizers WANT it to play out and end up.



when venus won wimbly last year seeded#14 i just loved it...that big F you to the ever prevalent expectation in tennis.


my favorite is grass because its just so classic so, old school but now mixed with power and technology...its beautious.
plus it gives my man roddick an erection- everytime.

 

[captain_bligh]

i think it has to do with your performance on the given surface too, i just know it varies from tourny to tourny, event to event.

i guess its like a very educated guess or prediction...sometimes i think a lot of it rides on how the organizers WANT it to play out and end .

my favorite is grass because its just so classic so, old school but now mixed with power and technology...its beautious.
plus it gives my man roddick an erection- everytime.

A lot in what what elle says. That's the way it works out in practice.

You can read more than you ever want to know about this in Judio's thread over at Mens Tennis Forums.

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=63742

Once a player rises high in the rankings, the current system tends to keep him/her there. Much as I like to see Andy play, he only occasionally gets to face up to someone in the top 10. He gets his points in the ranking system by beating the hell out of lesser talents in the early rounds of a tournament before getting blindsided by someone out of nowhere. As elle points out, there's more than just tennis in Andy's game!

Lleyton stayed near the top until he just stopped turning up because of injuries and family responsibilities. Then he plummeted!

 

[The_Reaper]

I'll gladly play a game of Tennis with you Havok! Although, loser loses an article of clothing each set....

I'd like to think I'm pretty good at it, I have an alright serve and can usally catch the damn ball when it comes back at me...Although, I have been known to put toooooo much force into a hit and send the damn thing flying...

So, up for a game? Name the place! Hopefully, some where close to here...I'm a student, not much money for travel..

 

[havok653]

I'll gladly play a game of Tennis with you Havok! Although, loser loses an article of clothing each set....

I'd like to think I'm pretty good at it, I have an alright serve and can usally catch the damn ball when it comes back at me...Although, I have been known to put toooooo much force into a hit and send the damn thing flying...

So, up for a game? Name the place! Hopefully, some where close to here...I'm a student, not much money for travel..

If only you weren't about as far away, while being in the same continent as possible, I'd say anytime, any place!

I'm not the best tennis player in the world but I can get to most anything you hit over the net. That and my backhand and return of serve being my biggest assests usually confuses people just enough to give me a good enough lead early on to mentally beat down a person.

Strip tennis is SOOOO something I'm up for though!

 

[The_Reaper]

^Very well!

(Contimplates his plan of how to get closer to Havok...)

 

[havok653]

BTW: Havok, in Nu Yawk, really tough dudes slide on concrete. Which explains why only the strong survive.

LoL. Well that does make more sense then... Although if I'm so strong then why do my shins and ankles hurt?