That "G" word... ugh!

[mc7777]

Like others, I have been wanting to post my story on this forum. Yes, I am a newbie poster, but have been reading this forum for a long time. It has been a great resource and wonderful to read about everyone else's posts.

So about 3 months ago, after years of in denial, I came out to a great friend. The friend was and continues to be awesome about it. I really think I am lucky to have a straight friend who has been such a great friend throughout it. He continues to remind me he isn't going to run from me on this and will stick by me. Since I have came out to another straight friend who also is really cool about it. Both have literally called or texted on a daily basis to make sure I am ok.

Since coming out I feel like I have been on a roller coaster of emotions, good and bad. I feel great at the same time I can't seem to accept the term or label of that "G" word. I literally have tried to practice saying it in the car to myself. I then get very down and angry. That word just brings me down and cuts deep! I also get emotional.

This is really odd for me as I have been sexually active and know I am attracted to men. I haven't been active in 3 years since I got scared and hid from it after last having sex. I discovered that I need to be happy and it was the thing to do. Furthermore an irony, when coming out to my straight friends (I framed the conversation to them hinting I was... you know, that word... and that is how I avoid saying it) was they asked me if I had ever been with a guy. I told them yes and I was able to tell them I have "been there, done that." I can even and have no trouble saying if I think a guy is hot to them (Derrick Davenport anyone??) I almost have to laugh as they have been really supportive after I made a comment and thought I might have freaked them out making a comment. Another odd thing is, amoung my friends, I am to "go to" guy for help in working stuff out. My education and profession I have a lot of experience dealing with individual issues, not to mention my youth broken household expereinces I over came.

Anyway, I guess the reason I don't like it, is because I feel like it is a negative label. Or I have to accept the lifestyle of it. I am, from what I understand to be the correct term, a masculine gay man. I am socially liberal but for the most part conservative. I think also it has to do with my job. I have a gov't job where I have to be tough and clean cut. I have to be tough with the people I deal with at times and I feel the mindset to prepare myself for work is affecting my perception of that "G" word. (At this time I would prefer not to disclose what I do. I am not in the military so narrow it down from there.) I am also trying to think otherwise why I am thinking this.

I just don't want to be that guy who "is gay," or "a faggot," "flamer," etc. I just want to be quiet and left alone. I have plans to move to a bigger city as where I live and work is very rural and close minded. There I can blend in and live my life. None of my family knows, nor would I like them to anytime soon (another LONG story.)

So my question is, after coming out to my closest friends, how do I get a grip on that "G" word? What am I missing here? The one friend said he would like to hear me say, but with no pressure. This is really affecting I think my mindset. Shouldn't I be happier after coming out?

Thanks for any feedback and sorry if my post is long! Also sorry if my thoughts seem scattered but I wanted to make sure I gave enough insight into my issue. This is just new and I need to get this figured out after hiding and ignoring it!

 

[Charmander]

You can start by typing it out.

 

[mc7777]

You can start by typing it out.

Shouldn't I just type/talk about how hot I think guys are!?

(insert very heavy sigh).. I am gay.. I am gay. I am gay. I am gay.

I have been doing more reading and found some neat info. I think the "label," bothers me because I am still accepting it. I want to accept it so I can be more active and find a lover. I can then be capabicle to be in love and love them.

I want so bad to say it and mean it. I also need to know I won't want to dye my hair pink, dress like a woman, use my hands when I talk, have the lisp, etc. Not that there is anything wrong with any of those things, it's just not for me.

I am new to all this and hope what I am experiencing is just part of the process and normal!

 

[GamerBear]

It took me a while to accept myself, but even took me longer to say the word in front of my parents after coming out to them.

 

[Rolyo85]

It is a negative label if you're a bigot. It is a "lifestyle" if you are ignorant. Words mean what you want them to mean. To me it is a term of empowerment. I consider myself belonging to a master race. Ask me if I have trouble accepting myself

 

[Seasoned]

Welcome!

You'll come to terms with it as your internalized homophobia subsides. The best way to make that happen is to make gay friends. Stereotyping people doesn't help. Just like there isn't one kind of straight male, gay males also run the gamut. Begin, by trying to be as accepting of yourself as your friends are and then venture out into the world at your own pace, always realizing that you have as much right to be yourself as anyone else. Good luck to you.

 

[cliffdweller]

Some may perhaps think it's an overused term around here (personally, I think that's just because there's so much of it), but what you're experiencing is internalized homophobia. You have a negative view of what "gay" is and how gay people are. Look at some of the other things you said - about dying your hair pink and dressing like a woman, etc. In your mind, gay= effeminate, and effeminate= bad.

Talking to a therapist would help you tremendously.

 

[wikke1]

You know, just 2 weeks ago, I felt exactly the same.
So -trust me- I know how you feel.
*although I have never been sexally active *

It really is called "internalized homophobia".
It's a phenomenon that is well documented in psychology. You can even find very decent articles on it if you just "google" it.

Only 2 weeks down the road, I came a long way.
Although I'm still far from where I should be.
I am (was) one of the most homophobic people I've met since coming out .
It's really confronting to read about it, and realise what you're doing to yourself.
Reading a lot about it has really helped me.

I still have a "fear" of really meeting gay people... I guess it's due to hiding in the closet for 10 years (in my case).

I also found this "letter". Which is just what it is. Maybe you'll want to read it...
Good luck to you (and me )

A lot of you dealing with your own coming out and self-acceptance have written asking me for help. Back in Kentucky, I had a friend who was at that point in his life when I was a little further down the tracks. --We're all basically on the same tracks at different places.-- Here's the letter I wrote him. Maybe it'll help you as well...

Sometimes in life you get something you didn't exactly want. Maybe you're just a little different from what seems like everyone else. Maybe you're left handed, maybe you're flat footed, or maybe you're gay. Granted, being left handed isn't a big deal now, but it used to be. Even in our parents' generation, people were made to write with their right hand because the left hand was considered evil. But now being left handed will maybe set you back a little in life, maybe you'll have a few difficulties, a few obstacles, but you can get around them. But being gay is the same thing, you'll have a few difficulties and obstacles, but you can get around them.
You can be happy, really happy. You can have friends that know you're gay and don't harass you. You can have lots of friends that will accept you for who you are. Believe it or not, one day your parents will accept it. But all you see is the negative side of being gay. Queer jokes, negative comments, from everyone, including your parents.
So you think you can fool everyone by going out with some girls. But each time you're afraid something's going to happen on your date that's going to make you feel uncomfortable. Deep down, you know who you are but you just can't admit it to anyone. So you go out with girls, but you make it not work. You then set the unattainable goal so everyone will think you're straight and stop harassing you about going out. No one's good enough. With me, it was no one had enough morals. No one was quite pure enough. But it was still that I was setting the unattainable goal. It doesn't work, though. The only person you're fooling is yourself. I've been there.
But lying to everyone makes you feel trapped. It's like you're smothering and you can't get out. It's like society is forcing you into a mold that you just don't fit. But you don't have to change to fit the mold. There are other people out there that don't fit the mold either. You're just so scared that the whole world will turn on you. But they won't, I won't, and others won't. In fact, of all the people I've told, that know for a fact, not one has ever rejected me.
I am gay. It took me so long to be able to say that. But I can say it. I can joke about it. But, now I'm secure in who I am.
But I've been where you are. Everyone, the movies, t.v., show gays as being sissies or child molesters or sexual deviants. But you aren't like that, you're a normal guy who happens to be gay. But from what you've seen and heard, those kinds of people don't exist. But they do, and you don't notice them as being different and neither does anyone else, unless you're looking. -- I knew you were gay when I told you that I'm gay, back in tenth grade. You've probably got this sixth sense. You can probably tell who's gay and who isn't. If not now, you'll have it later.
And you just want to go away to the big city, to New York, to Los Angeles, to Europe. Anywhere that gay people are accepted, anywhere that you won't be an outcast. For me, it was New York, I told my parents that I wanted to go to college there, but I just really wanted to go there where I could be who I am. Why do you think I got accepted to college a year early? It wasn't because I wanted to further my education quickly. It was because I wanted to get out. Be free from the closed mindedness of Richmond. But then Chris and I became friends and I focused all my energy on him. I didn't worry about sexuality. I did "best friend things" with him and it was enough. I was scared about going off to college in New York, I worried about the college being Catholic, and I wanted to stay for Chris, so I didn't go.
But, now in two and a half weeks, I'm going to Boston University and it's like heaven on earth. Just from two days at Orientation I know I will be absolutely happy there. For example, after only knowing these people for four hours, I just sat there and said "I'm gay". They said okay, and for the next day and a half, we just hung out. They could have cared less that I was gay. They still touched me, they still talked with me, it was exactly the same. And before I went to Orientation, I'd been writing with a gay student advisor for the program, so when I got there several of the other student advisors (juniors & seniors volunteers) knew who I was and said stuff like "Andy's really looking forward to seeing you." and "I've heard so much about you." I had no idea who these people were, but they knew me, they knew Andy's gay, and they knew I was his friend. I was sure that if Andy hadn't told them directly, they could put 2 and 2 together to realize that I'm gay. And once again, I couldn't have cared less. -- And I know you're staying here, but you still don't have to hide. Granted, everything won't be as great as in Boston, but you can still be happy.
And before, you've thought about killing yourself, but you really don't want to kill yourself. You just want to make it look like you want to kill yourself. You want to make it look real, just real enough to get a lot of attention, but you don't want to kill yourself. You've still got some glimmer of hope of living a happy life. Believe me, I was there too. I thought about wrecking my car, but then that would cost a lot of insurance, and if I wore my seatbelt, like I always do, I wouldn't get hurt enough to get the attention I wanted, enough for people to ask what my problem was. If I didn't wear my seatbelt, it would look like something was up.
You've thought about running away, but you don't know where to go. You don't know where to go so that you won't be found. You've thought about leaving you're parents a note and not coming home until they can signal that they're O.K. with you're being gay. I know you have. I have, but for one reason or another something wouldn't work exactly right.
But I can't say all that you've thought or all you've done, I'm not you. I know you're beyond some of these thoughts now, but I know you thought them before. I'm writing to let you know that you are not alone, that everything will be okay.
I'm not asking for a reply. I just want to help you.

That was almost three years ago and things at Boston University went better than I had anticipated. People accepted me without incident. I dated for the first time. It was amazing.
The only problem my gayness encountered was from my Puerto Rican ex-roommate and I hated him as much as he hated me. Being gay was just the icing on that clichéd cake. He annoyed me by speaking spanish over 90% of the time, by sleeping until 4PM, by selling pot from our room, etc. etc.. But even that was fixable, a complaint to the head of my college and some red tape cutting later, I'd moved in with a friend.
Otherwise, I had an absolute best first year. I finally got out into the dating scene... first with Adam, then Jeff, then Steve, and then Rob. I know that one day I'll return to rural America to make a home, and hopefully, by that time, it will be koool to be gay back there. Things are already looking up...
My point, though, is that my insight was right...
© 1997 Justin Clouse

 

[mc7777]

Sorry for the delay in my response. I got busy the past couple of days. So check this, I think I made a great leap in progress.

I wanted to make something clear first as I think I might have not presented it correctly. The reason I don't like the word is because I am worried personally about being labeled by others. That and I have the fear by saying it, I admit to being "weak," and will give up control of my life to others perceptions. (if that makes sense..?? I will act differently because of what they think.) I don’t fear or resent those who actually dye their hair pink, etc. It is just not my cup of tea. I didn’t mean to come off ignorant or offend anyone. It wasn’t my intention to come off like that. My thoughts at the time were scattered and I was speaking in a context of the general stereotypes. I am sorry again if that comment rubbed anyone wrong.

I know gay individuals (yes, like myself..) and actually am on great terms with them. I used to work with a few at an old job I had. The one man I am still on speaking terms with. I haven't told him but would like to, but still a little scared. My one straight friend knows him also and is after me to tell him. He is a great older guy who I enjoyed working with. I really liked how you can talk and make jokes about it and we would laugh all together. He was very rotten at times and it was so funny. I really admired how he just put it out there so no one was wondering or surprised. Anyone could ask him anything and he would tell you alright! I later found out from my straight friend #1 he would ask if I was gay. My straight friend told me he was always worried for me and could see it. That would explain when he would come into my office (yes I was always thinking starring at my desk), ask if I was ok, and visit for a little bit. It is because of this man I am here searching and learning.

NOW, no sooner did I post this, I did some research on the web and I got to be honest, I feel like a goof! I found these 7 Steps of Stages of Coming Out on that Empty Closets website. Of course this information wasn't anywhere to be found until I posted here! I really think the label of it all was bugging me also because despite telling friends, coming out, I hadn't started or accepting it personally. I thought coming out (telling someone) was personally accepting it internally (being ok with it.) So from what I gather it is a two part process. You have to not just say it but be comfortable in your own life. I was stuck at, "I'm gay, oh shit, now what, I am gay!?" I was also stuck at, “where do I go from here,” “How do I manage this and what is next for this?” Not to mention I didn’t have the self acceptance/pride to push aside the perceptions and labels of others. Now I can’t help to think, “who gives a fuck what they think.” So I guess I was backed into a corner.

Also I felt guilty, like a liar, having been active before, but then denying it to myself. But I didn't know that was just a sexual exploration process! The natural pull was pulling me to want to and have sex, but of course my mind wasn't there yet (denying it.) Finding this out helped me sort my thoughts of my exploration sexual activity. I know I liked it (LOVED IT) and would have to eventually have to face it so I could be happy.

After I read this it just hit me like a ton of bricks what I was missing. It wasn’t as much as my perception but the uncertainty of it all. I was totally a stage 3 when I originally posted, but now I can definitely say I am stage 4. “Yes I am gay and I like it!” After reading this I spoke with straight friend #2 and explained everything. I then explained it to straight friend #1 and they both said the same thing agreeing. Also now I have an idea of what is ahead and what needs to be done.

It’s amazing to know how wrong you are in a flash of inspiration. Granted I don’t have it mastered by any means, but it is just that, a process. Here I was within the process and didn’t know it. Finding this out, I think has put me in stage 4 of pride. I am gay, can be gay, and throughout this process can create the happiness I am looking for, and want so bad. I have to say I really feel empowered now that I have this information. I am going to keep reading and learning to ensure I am on the right track. I really wanted to get this figured out so I can move into stage 5 of relationships. I want to participate so to speak. Plus there is someone (blushing…. No it’s no one mentioned in my posts. He is so beautiful and a wonderful person. I think just the thought of maybe getting to be with him has drawn me out. I want happiness! Yes, I am in love!... BTW, Those days I spent starring at my desk mentioned earlier, I was thinking about him.)

Ok, I have to confess something here. Did I mention I was GAY! Yes that is G-A-Y! I do have the right to be gay and not have to worry…. Thanks and lots of love to all!

 

[mc7777]

Shoot! I wanted to post that URL to that Empty Closet link on the 7 Stages but couldn't since I am a newbie! Can anyone post it for me so its on here?

 

[Ganoderma]

hi Mc7777,

Thanks alot for your nice and extensive reply. I am very pleased to read that you have now accepted for yourself that you are gay, that there is nothing wrong with being gay, and that also gay people have a happy and a wonderful life.

And I am especially pleased that the phase of 'lying' / hiding is over. You happen to be interested in guys, and you have already found someone who you feel love for. Wow man, I hope he also has similar feelings for you. Great man.

So you have openend yourself to two of your best friends, and both of them are very supporting. Maybe (likely?) the door of your closet was much less closed as you were thinking, eg because your gay co-worker also had his thoughts about your sexual orientation?

And you don't need to tell the whole world that you are GAY, as there are no rules telling that you need to walk around with a cap with 'I am GAY' on it. But you don't hide / ly etc. anymore about the real Mc7777. Am I right that one might consider your work-place as a gay friendly one? So people will find out that Mc7777 is gay, or not, but you don't bother anymore.

Best wishes, and good luck.

 

[TX-Beau]

What you have is a whole lot of internalized homophobia. Relax, you aren't the first, you won't be the last. I went through a phase where I couldn't write it down either, that happens because your homophobia (which defends itself with shit like this) is telling you that gay is bad, it's a betrayal of your masculinity, and you need to stay as far away from "gay," as you can. THIS IS COMMON with a certain type of gay guy who has gotten to the point where he can understand he's homosexual, but hasn't dealt with the crap in his head that makes him cringe from "gay."

I went around calling myself SA/SA like an idiot for awhile.

This is all tied in your head to definitions of masculinity that are based on some degree of misogyny, the idea that the effeminate and the penetrated are inherently feminine and that is unacceptable for "masculine," men, even perverse - depending on how deep you're caught in that.

But that's all bullshit, when you get through this - and you will, you'll realize that the only people who care are people who have the same issues. No one else really gives a good god damn.

Masculinity is how you define it, and really, that image of it you have in your head is a massive stereotype that doesn't exist anyway. All of us have some behaviours that fit that stereotype, and some that don't, gay/straight/bi.

You are reacting because you have an issue with you and your problems with you being gay and how you want people to see you.

You're not worried about them labeling you as gay, you're worried they're going to label you as YOU perceive gay men - i.e. effeminate and bad. you're really not considering what other people may actually think about gay men because your internalized homophobia is telling you they can't possibly disagree with it.

So what to do? Keep up the track you're on, you're out, you've essentially got it beat, you just have to keep telling yourself over and over, that you are a gay man, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I mean that literally, every morning, in the mirror, sounds cheesy but it works.

Then get pissed off, you didn't ask for this, you didn't create this situation, the fucking haters did, so fuck them if they think you're going to live your life on THEIR terms.

Get mad, that helps too.

 

[TX-Beau]

Personal anecdote, back when I was coming to terms with all of this, I saw my first gay porn! Keep in mind that I’m old enough that the net was new and it wasn’t all that easy to get my hands on gay porn (I for damn sure wasn’t going to go into an ABS and buy it because, you know “they,” would know about that.) So I was at this guy’s apartment – and looking back I’m sure he was trying to get into my pants but I was too stupid to see it at the time – but anyway, there were these two really buff, butch guys on screen in your cheesy locker-room scene, and yeah, I had a big ole boner, but what was going through my mind was this repeating thought that I couldn’t believe these two butch guys were really going to do that to each other. I just kept thinking that right through the pump and grind right up to the money shot.

Why? Because in my mind guys who looked like that couldn’t be gay. It didn’t fit, my internalized homophobia didn’t want to accept that gay men weren’t all effeminate, doe eyed, fairies.

Were the porn actors really gay? Who knows, I was just shocked that there was really gay cocksucking and ass fucking from guys who really shouldn’t have been doing any of that according to my definitions of masculinity.

Shortly after I went through this kinda cocky asshole phase where I thought I was god’s gift to gay men because I wasn’t an effeminate, doe eyed, fairy. Same internalized homophobia, different expression.

The thing to remember is that coming out is a process; it takes time to deal with all that crap the haters put in your head. You won’t get rid of it overnight, but you will get rid of it sooner or later – and you’ll move farther faster if you avoid some of the pitfalls and rationalizations guys like me used to protect the internalized homophobia.

Go find some really gay friends, you don’t have to date them, you can if you want, no pressure, you need to see that there are all kinds of gay men, and there is nothing wrong with being a Drag Queen if that’s who you are, there’s nothing wrong with being a biker bear who loves his mother’s china, you are who you are, and you aren’t going to be yourself if you think that gay means only one thing, or you accept negative and pejorative definitions some bigot put in your head.

You are how you define yourself, good or bad – and yes you are going to be labeled as gay, but sugar, most people aren’t defining that the way you are, and most of them don’t really care.

That’s the great secret of coming out, how few people actually care.

 

[Rolyo85]

Btw, I've grown to really love effeminate doe eyed fairies some times. They have twice the confidence of the most chill masc bro you could imagine, and 9 out of 10 times they are amazing in bed too

 

[mc7777]

@Ganoderma

I am so glad to be out of the phase of lying/hiding very much. The fact I am fond of someone and the thought of maybe being able to be in a relationship with this person, I think is what drew me out. It was really tough at points because while trying to lye and hide, I was thinking about him, and what it would be like to be with him. I imagined then just the happiness of being with someone and the peace of mind that could come with it. I knew it was something because of that funny feeling in my stomach and the smile on my face. The coming home, closing the door, and no one being there just bugged the shit out of me more. So I guess the fear of being alone got to me more than being gay. Whether or not I get a chance or relationship with this particular person wasn’t all of it though (I am not staking everything on this particular person. I can and if have to, find happiness with someone else.) However his face, smile, voice, smell, and personality make it a hell of a lot easier. You know, I really don’t know what it is like to be in love with someone. If it is something like what I feel just a little, then gay I am. I certainly hope he feels the same!

You could say my closet door was kind of open. I consider myself a strong realist individual person. I have to be. I actually like being wrong on things (hence my discussion) so I can figure stuff out. Being this way I knew I would have to face it sooner or later. So looking back I sometimes laugh at the hints I would drop certain people. Maybe it was for them to start thinking and suspecting so it made it easier for me later. Sometimes though I wish someone would have just confronted me about it. Straight friend #1 I have known most of my life. He said he suspected it (never dated or talked about women), dropped him hints, could see I was unhappy, knows me better than really than anyone, and said he could see me thinking then mention a certain someone. He said he thought about approaching the talk or confronting me but just didn’t want to be out of line asking. He said he wasn’t shocked and glad when I told him. Fuck I was so worried about his reaction and losing him as a friend. A lot of it had to do with feeling guilty about “lying,” to him. I kept apologizing to him and explaining I really wasn’t sure and was lying to myself during my emotional outburst when telling him. He ordered me to quit apologizing about it and for it. Maybe I am more sorry for myself than anything. But it’s the process I guess.

Part of me was also worried I would have to be “weak” in admitting to it. I realized though I had to do it. The funny thing is though, despite being very emotional (sometimes get a little still) I was actually being strong and courageous! I was coming out! Once I realized that I was able to stop being so emotional and move forward with it.

My workplace was a not really gay friendly as much as the profession attracted gay people into it. They (we) had the much needed personality for it. My current job however is not gay friendly at all and could be very dangerous if one would find out. It wouldn’t be as much my work environment, but my dealings with the public. Being gay, I plan to keep it in my personal life and out of my professional life as much as I can.

@TX-Beau, great info and I will hit you up on a separate reply. Stay tuned!

 

[mc7777]

@Rolyo85

I will keep that in mind they are good in bed. Is it because they just really are in tune and want it other than the chill mascu bro that still needs to be "the man?" Of the limited amount of guys I had sex with, all were mascu jock types (YUM!)

Besides this internalized homophobia stuff I am dealing with (which could be talking here, so bear with me,) I have to maintain that the fairy stuff isn't my cup of tea. I guess it is because it seems womanly like and I don't desire woman. So like with drag queens and such, I want clearly a man, no dress or a purse, just another man. I feel like they are just too loud and happy. I am quiet and reserved.

No sooner do I say that, I would like to try it I guess! Come to think of it, the one guy I was with was a little flamey, and he was the best one so far. He was the one that jumped on my lap and put the condom on me.

 

[Ganoderma]

hi Mc7777,

Thanks for your nice and friendly reply. You don't give an indication of your age (it's also not needed to tell us), but I somehow have the idea that you are in your 20ties.

The reactions of both of your good friends are a clear indication that you were far less deep hidden in the closet then thought. Your friends, and likely many other people as well, had several clues (no girlfriend, no history with girlfriends, not willing to talk about girls / 'sweet girls', so some sort or avoiding this topic, and that already for many years). So either Mc7777 is asexual (but why) or maybe gay?

On the other hand, you are totally right that it is indeed difficult to come out at such friends, especially when you are already avoiding this 'topic' for many, many years. Well, the most important thing is that both don't bother at all, and that this will make is also more easy for you to do the same for other people around you.

As a side note, you might consider to make contact again with the gay guy at your former work-place, when you think you would like to have a gay with whom you can discuss all kind of gay issues, and in particular how to learn that there is nothing wrong with being gay (and that you learn not to bother about homophobic people).

Too sad that your current workplace is full with homophobics. So you seem to have contact with customers, and what's the deal when one of the staff (= the serious guy called Mc7777) turnes out to be a male who likes to sleep with other males? Excuse me very much, but I don't see the connection. How about people with different racial background who have that kind of jobs?

And how about the girls at your current workplace? They will be aware that you don't have a girlfriend, and they will be aware that you don't flirt with girls, and that you also don't discuss 'sweet girl topics' with your guy co-workers. So are you really sure that there is no one at that current work place who might be able to 'read your gay card'? Again, this does not mean that you must tell all customers you are gay. IMO, the sexual orietation of employees in such companies with contacts with customers does not matter. What matter if you are good in your job, in the contact with the clients (and so on), but your sexual orientation (and also your racial background) does not matter.

Finally, you told me you are fond at 'someone'. I hope soon you (or he) will set some steps towards learning each other better. Does this 'someone' knows that you are gay, and is he gay as well?

Anyway, I would like to wish you all the best, and keep posting over here on any topic you would like to have opinions from others.

 

[Rolyo85]

@Rolyo85

I will keep that in mind they are good in bed. Is it because they just really are in tune and want it other than the chill mascu bro that still needs to be "the man?" Of the limited amount of guys I had sex with, all were mascu jock types (YUM!)

Besides this internalized homophobia stuff I am dealing with (which could be talking here, so bear with me,) I have to maintain that the fairy stuff isn't my cup of tea. I guess it is because it seems womanly like and I don't desire woman. So like with drag queens and such, I want clearly a man, no dress or a purse, just another man. I feel like they are just too loud and happy. I am quiet and reserved.

No sooner do I say that, I would like to try it I guess! Come to think of it, the one guy I was with was a little flamey, and he was the best one so far. He was the one that jumped on my lap and put the condom on me.

Haha, I know exactly what you mean. I like guys. Boys. Men. If it looks and acts like a girl, it doesn't attract me. BUT there are levels to it, and a lot of flaming guys are still masculine, if we broaden the term a little.

Btw, I could give you another advice, but it involves a subject you might not be comfortable discussing publicly, so if you're interested, hit me up in a message, ok?

 

[mc7777]

@TX-Beau

I wanted to take a day and think about your feedback since you spoke in dealing with the internalized homophobia and I really wanted to think about it more. I do truly believe masculinity is how you personally define it. I think I have better understanding that now that I am aware of it. You are right; I am very worried how people will see me. I live in a small town, work in a somewhat bigger area, but all the same worry. I am worried also of losing straight friends who will think I want them and I won’t have time to explain I don’t since they are not gay and we are friends (to be honest some are just good friends and I can’t imagine being a lover. Being friends with them is bad enough! LOL.) It is getting less and less. I almost don’t care if they know or find out. So those small environmental factors affect me some. I do have plans to move into a bigger area and blend in more.

I have since I feel finding the information I mentioned about the stages of coming out and feeling better having gained perspective in the coming out and accepting phases, been able to say it better to myself in the mirror, or when I am driving. Plus yeah I am a little mad that this is kicking my ass some, so it is serving as motivation to get pissed, and face this down. To be honest I was saying it in the car today and noticed I was grinning (guiltyyyyyyyyyyy!)

I don’t think I am cocky about not being effeminate. As you maybe seen in my other posts I have explained myself in not liking doey eyed fairies or queens for mentioned reasons (don’t like queens since they are dressing and looking like women, when I am attracted to men.) I also don’t think I am rationalizing as I am open to knowledge and discussion. I think I would spend more time defending my thoughts then trying to figure them out if I was rationalizing. So I just think it is general lack of knowledge for me.

I had to laugh on the “bear loving his mother’s china,” one. I guess just picturing it made me laugh. Then I had to think. I like and consider myself masculine, but what are some “flamer points,” I have and masculine points. My masculine points were more than my flamer points list, but I was surprised to see actually how many flamer points I have (cooking/baking, romantic comedies, interior design, opera, waxing, romantic gestures, hate football, hate beer-don’t drink at all though, can’t stand macho alpha male stupid straight males ignorance, reading.)

Lastly, I think you got a point on what I am noticing each time I tell someone. I am expecting them to be shocked and go running away screaming, but it is more of “oh wow, oh ok, well I didn’t know that.” Then it’s almost like you can hear crickets chirping and a clock ticking as I sit there waiting for an explosion. It is seemingly not a big fucking deal at all. Straight friends #1 always wants to knows people’s reaction and laughs when no one runs away in horror. Maybe it isn’t a big deal!?

 

[mc7777]

@Ganoderma

I am in my mid twenties. Yeah I like to not mention specifics. I seem to have this internalized problem with being out and accepting it while worry how other perceive me! LOL

Yeah I was far less deep in the closet. Like I said I did it to myself on purpose. I just did this though with my close friends to get them thinking. I was hoping they would think enough and confront me about it, but they didn’t want to cross that line. I did avoid the topic because I was worried since we were friends, how it would affect us. I have seen them naked in the past, in towels, walking around in underwear, etc. and I didn’t want them regretting that. I am not interested in any of my main two straight friends that know. We are friends, they are not gay, and so why in the hell would I want them!? I want someone that wants it and wants to give it. I made sure I explained this and told them this is a boundary I will not cross. I even told them if we are out somewhere, I will not enter a public restroom with them at the same time. I also told them to not even walk around with a shirt off, if they don’t want to, and I would understand. I want to make this boundary clear to all my straight friends. I have some handsome straight friends to and the only thing I want from them, is to find a girl they love, and settle down. They are after me to get some more “gal pals,” and send them their way. I told them I would do my best. They have been great to in their own hetero way with comments like, “go find a dude, or look whats his name up, and go get some penis dude!” Or another one I have to laugh at “man-gina.” Yes this is the point where I change the subject.

I do have plans to look my former coworker up soon. I am realizing more how he could help out. There is some stuff I would like to discuss with him.

Yes my current occupation is very homophobic. Not as much as my coworkers, but I deal directly with the public. The type of public who hates regular people even. Going with my policy of not mentioning specifics I shall leave this closet door a little open for you to guess what I do… I work for the government, deal with the public- as I am constantly out driving around, am issued a gun, and have to be tough a lot (been in actual physical fights.) If you can’t guess then let me know. I am good at what I do as I have a high success rate and job approval evaluation. Plus I get thank you’s a lot and compliments. I worry very much that my job will be affected because of being gay.

That someone I mentioned I just came out to a couple weeks ago. We actually haven’t talked since other than texting. He is actually a great friend. It has been long suspected he was gay by others. I became friends with him because I didn’t care if he was, and he is an amazing person. I thought if he was he could help me. I had and have my suspicions that he may be, but despite what we (including both straight friends) we have nothing solid, but we do have reasonable suspicion. He is also married but it is on the outs only after a short period of time. Part of me wonders if he got married trying to avoid it or wanted to make sure. He is very religious and committed to his faith, which I totally respect. I was thinking to come out to him as a friend and we just continue to be friends, which he assured me we were cool. I will also honor the same straight male boundaries with him as with others. Should he be gay and come to the table and want to be friends that is cool to. Should he want to be more than that, I would of course really like that. I will take him any way I can get him. Plus if he isn’t gay or doesn’t come out, I plan on moving on. I have been to my straight friends very clear on this. I think he is gay as I known him for many years, but want to leave my opinion out of it. I have even defended his name against others comments about their suspicion. I also don’t want my gay desires clouding my judgment and start wanting him to be. Yes I am guilty of using the thought of us together to serve as motivation to pull through, but I can day dream all I want. Should I get in too far, and the situation calls for it, I will distance myself, or disappear. I don’t want to cause him grief over it, but I would like to help if I could. He and his very religious family have been at odds about it in the past. They are getting to be really close lately and it has been great for him. Part of me wonders he got married to shut them up so he can get close with them again. I often wonder if his parents know and are coming to terms with it with his marriage coming apart and they have realized that they just want their son to be happy. Hell I wonder if he is actively gay right now. He lives far enough away. Not only that he is an introvert and is good at hiding feelings.

Part of the reason I joined this forum was to learn to deal with being gay. I have always been the independent reliable friend to him. I am the go to guy when shit hits the fan, and maintains the level head, and goes into attack mode. So I want to get this figured out so I have the opportunity to be there for him should he need me, friend, or maybe lover someday….