The 2nd amendment discussion is coming

[BostonPirate]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

First off I want to quickly qualify that I am a gun owner and that I intend to remain one for the duration of my spell on the planet.

Gun owners KNOW what their responsibilities are and there are millions of law abiding sportsmen and private citizens who own and carry weapons.

I also believe that there are SOME weapons that are designed for warfare and ought to be left on the feild of battle.

The problem I have seen in my lifetime is that there is no law that we can write to ensure that gun owners understand the responsibility of owning guns. There will be those who buy them for the novelty or the misguided belief that just having a gun makes you safe.

I have been thinking that a simple 20 question test... like a drivers test... could allow the public the information they need to be responsible AND simultaneously stop the loonies from getting weapons.

I dont like the subjectivity of a "sanity" test. Michael Jackson got a doctor to litterally drug him to death. There will always be unscrupulous doctors who will sign off on anything for a dollar.

So...

Lets have the discussion

The @nd amendment is a fixture. Its not going anywhere. How can we create more responsible gun owners through education, and how can we keep the people with mental problems and criminal records from posessing them without opening the door to a future challenge to the 2nd ammendment?

 

[rareboy]

It is amazing that people have to be tested to be licensed to operate a registered and insured vehicle but not a gun.

 

[BostonPirate]

The 2nd Amendment is not a fixture. It doesn't have to stay, and any attempt to provide for effective regulation needs that poorly worded travesty to be removed or, at the least, replaced.

this is the amendment process.

The Constitution of the United States
* * * * * * * * * *

Article V

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.

do you think that realistically can happen?

 

[CowboyBob]

I am a gun owner and possess a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Why do I have those? Because I inherited several guns from my Dad and a friend of mine is the licensed man who gives out concealed gun permits.

Gun ownership requires regulation, responsibility and good legislation. I don't believe anyone should be allowed to purchase a gun, Jared Loughner is a good example. How can a person who couldn't join the army and get kicked out of school because of mental illness so easily go into a store and buy a gun? This is bad legislation on Arizona's part.

The USA is gun crazy. Americans simply like guns. For some people they are nothing more than toys. They wrap themselves up in the Second Amendment, call gun ownership a right and insist anyone who wants a gun be allowed to buy one.

You need to take a test to drive a car, register it, license it, but in many states buying a gun is like buying a loaf of bread. Go into a sporting goods store (or Wal*Mart for that matter), put your money on the counter and walk out.

This is possible because of a strong gun lobby pushing lawmakers into their way of thinking. Could you imagine drivers, physicians, lawyers without tests or licenses? Gun laws need to be stricter. You hear all the time "when guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns". That's a crock of shit. "The Government is coming to take away your guns" is mere demagoguery.

For many, guns are nothing more than big boy's toys. They need to be classified as a dangerous weapon as they are and need to become harder to get. Licensing, test, registering. The gun violence is epidemic in America. If there were fewer guns in the hands of people, there would be less gun violence.

Years ago I remember sitting in IHOP listening to a man sitting a couple booths away talking to a group about how if Kerry was elected "he is planning on taking away your guns". The others sitting there were aghast and of course, they would vote for Bush. Threatening to take away your hobby, your toys is an effective tool for the right wing and they know that. The gun lobby is too powerful and needs to be reigned in.

 

[BostonPirate]

The NRA has lost alot of its power in the last few elections. They are not a must have endorsement anymore. Who they point out as problematic politicians are not really that endangered by their opinion.

All lobbying needs to be curtailed to a great degree really. Thats why that scotus decision on anonymous corporate donors can't stand. That is still an overall issue that needs to be addressed.

now on a street level... we have to find a way for the right to bear arms be protected, while keeping weapons out of dangerous peoples hands.

who gets to define what dangerous is? one wallmart clerk said no and one said yes...

Currently wallmart salesmen are the ones deciding who is or isn't dangerous enough to get bullets?

REALLY???

 

[runner]

If Congress was surprised at the last election over their excessive spending habits, just wait and see what happens to them if they try to take guns away from Americans!

 

[BostonPirate]

If Congress was surprised at the last election over their excessive spending habits, just wait and see what happens to them if they try to take guns away from Americans!

lets just look at the facts without placing political value or blame... no right or wrong... lets just look at the layout...

Obama has stated clearly that he has no interest in visiting the 2nd amendment during his presidency. He MAY be pressured by some of the progressives to back down on that, but he won't because there is a republican held house that would NEVER touch the 2nd amendment.

that is not what CAN posibly happen. I can think of 26 states that would never ratify such a change in the constitution and about 5 of them are in New England, the most liberal area of the nation.

so...

they are going to be arguing over legislation that affects the consumer access to guns or ammunition, not the right to own them. They are going to discuss building a method of responsible gun and ammo sales and responsible gun and ammo ownership.

 

[rareboy]

I suspect that once again the US will engage in a long, loud and expensive empty, grandstanding and emotional debate about responsible gun ownership and then after the news cycle runs out of interest for this story, the NRA and gun lobbyists can relax again and go back to getting a Glock in the hands of every American citizen over the age of 6.

The US is so addicted to firearms that it would be impossible to ever achieve tighter regs in most of the cowboy states.

But I can guarantee you that the rest of the world will be following the discussion with some interest.

 

[jackoroe]

I honestly couldn't tell you how many guns I own. I do know I couldn't stuff another into the safe for trying. I collect them because I love mechanical objects. It's fun to take them apart and see how they function and hopefully put them back together so they work. A word of advice don't take a Luger apart. It isn't worth the hassle of getting it back together. And yes, I shoot everything I own.

Do we need more responsible gun ownership? Yes, I think we could use more education in that area. Licensing and testing, not so much of a good idea. Why not just teach responsible firearms ownership in the schools? They aren't teaching much else of any use. And maybe the kids might enjoy the sport. I take my nephews to the range every couple of months, they love it.

 

[BostonPirate]

I honestly couldn't tell you how many guns I own. I do know I couldn't stuff another into the safe for trying. I collect them because I love mechanical objects. It's fun to take them apart and see how they function and hopefully put them back together so they work. A word of advice don't take a Luger apart. It isn't worth the hassle of getting it back together. And yes, I shoot everything I own.

Do we need more responsible gun ownership? Yes, I think we could use more education in that area. Licensing and testing, not so much of a good idea. Why not just teach responsible firearms ownership in the schools? They aren't teaching much else of any use. And maybe the kids might enjoy the sport. I take my nephews to the range every couple of months, they love it.

I think the left would scream bloody murder if anyone suggested teaching gun safety in school, but IF it is a guaranteed constitutional right, they ought to be prepared to exercise that right responsibly.

the dialogue would be something like this...." children need to be protected from guns, not taught how to use them."

I actually got my passion for hunting when I joined the high school archery club. If you've ever tried shooting a wild turkey with an arrow, you know why you'd want to use a firearm...lol

I come from a family of hunters, though. I have no disconnect with the food I eat and where it came from. I actually have venison steaks and stewmeat in the freezer.

 

[jackoroe]

I think the left would scream bloody murder if anyone suggested teaching gun safety in school, but IF it is a guaranteed constitutional right, they ought to be prepared to exercise that right responsibly.

the dialogue would be something like this...." children need to be protected from guns, not taught how to use them."

I actually got my passion for hunting when I joined the high school archery club. If you've ever tried shooting a wild turkey with an arrow, you know why you'd want to use a firearm...lol

I come from a family of hunters, though. I have no disconnect with the food I eat and where it came from. I actually have venison steaks and stewmeat in the freezer.

How about we use the same criteria we do for educating kids about safe sex? "They're going to do it anyway, so they might as well be safe about it."

You hunt turkey with a bow? You have earned my undying respect. I used a 12 guage on one only to watch pellets bounce harmlessly off the tough old bird. Turkey hunting is too much work! I do want to go Boar hunting. There's at least a sporting chance of getting hurt by the prey. It's a more equitable situation.

 

[paatreides]

I used to hunt on a regular basis. We had guns in the house all my life. I'm certainly not against them and I do think people should retain "the right to bear arms."

But, that said, there needs to be a better way to regulate purchase. Unfortunately, it's been proven too easy to go to a gun show and purchase guns (automatic and semi-automatic weapons included) without a background check. This is how weapons find their way to violent criminals like those in the mexican drug cartels.

 

[BostonPirate]

How about we use the same criteria we do for educating kids about safe sex? "They're going to do it anyway, so they might as well be safe about it."

You hunt turkey with a bow? You have earned my undying respect. I used a 12 guage on one only to watch pellets bounce harmlessly off the tough old bird. Turkey hunting is too much work! I do want to go Boar hunting. There's at least a sporting chance of getting hurt by the prey. It's a more equitable situation.

nono

I TRIED

ha

and then I got introduced to a pissed off turkey... and then a few stitches.

I'm not good enough a shot to take a boar down fast enough.

 

[jackoroe]

We had a rather pissed off turkey who decided he like living on exit 15E of the New Jersey Turnpike. That's Jersey City/Newark area. He would just amble out into the area near the toll booths and attack cars as they paid the toll. Really weird animals,those turkeys.

 

[Txgoodoldboy]

Gun owners KNOW what their responsibilities are and there are millions of law abiding sportsmen and private citizens who own and carry weapons.

I live in a semi-rural area. I've had shotgun pellets rain down on me from four different sides from four different people. So, don't tell me "they know their responsibilities".

I have a 410 shotgun for killing snakes and vermin. I only shoot when I know where the pellets are going.

Most of the rednecks in my area, equate guns with their dicks. The gun makes the man. Bullshit.

 

[BostonPirate]

I live in a semi-rural area. I've had shotgun pellets rain down on me from four different sides from four different people. So, don't tell me "they know their responsibilities".

I have a 410 shotgun for killing snakes and vermin. I only shoot when I know where the pellets are going.

Most of the rednecks in my area, equate guns with their dicks. The gun makes the man. Bullshit.

so how should we educate them?

 

[jstud]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...e-for-death-threats-against-Barack-Obama.html

Interesting.

 

[Supersix]

Why not just teach responsible firearms ownership in the schools?

When I was in Junior High School 25 years ago, they had a rifle club. I'm not sure if it eventually got cancelled because of lack of student interest, or if the school district sissied out. Knowing the snobby Long Island people as well as I do, it's probably the latter.

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

Two notes:

1) Areas that have more liberal gun laws also tend to have lower crime rates. Something about the fear of not the cops but the person you're stealing from...

2) It's always interesting that the person that caused this discussion is usually someone who would not have been able to get guns legally in the first place.

3) How do you make sure that the criminals follow the rules...?

RG

 

[BostonPirate]

As contentious as it is, i'm of the opinion that the amendment itself gives the wrong message.

A right to bear arms is hardly conjusive to promoting peace and stability.

Gun ownership shouldn't be a right, it should be a priveledge.

the nation was founded by revolutionaries who did not want to go back to the way it was....

You cannot invade america... we are armed.

If you come to america you are going to have an armed population that is disinclined to surrender.

It has been a successful strategy

America's main land has not been invaded since the war of 1812.