The American Taliban strikes again...read it for yourself

[slobone]

Which one are you shopping at? No Wal-Mart I have ever been in has there ever been trully helpful or friendly employees. Granted there are a couple exceptions but generally all you get is "sorry it's not my department", cashiers who are ignorant and greeters that harass you at the door due to the cashiers not fucking deactivating the alarm and you setting it off as you try to exit.

Well, I guess it might depend where you live. Everybody at the store here is very friendly, but maybe that's not true in California, where people tend to be a little more rude.

 

[eddielee]

American's for truth? They sure got a lot of different ways to say "I hate Gays".
Anyway, when did pro-gay suddenly come to mean anti-Christian? This is just one of many so-called "family values" groups that have sprung up just to torment gay people.

 

[tbonez]

Gee, you wouldn't be a snob by any chance, would you?

I did imply as much. Actually I'm not really.

Yeah I guess they stole all those SUV's I see in the parking lot.

Likely only a few are stolen...the balance 100% financed...so "borrowed" from the bank is probably a kinder term that "stolen".

Wal-Mart is the world's biggest grocery chain, so what you're saying makes no sense. Lower prices + equal quality = everybody with any sense shops there.

Funny, I don't qualify as retarded and I don't shop there. Could have something to do with their predatory business practices, the fact they pay 'poverty wages' and are anti 'organized labour'. Not to mention there isn't one anywhere near where I live...Thank God.

They don't lower their prices when the economy is doing badly? Sure they do, only they call it a "sale"

Has nothing to do with what I was saying. Have you even read Wal-Marts own news releases lately? I have.

Wait, first you criticize them for catering to poor people, now you criticize them for trying to bring in upscale customers as well? Guess they can't do anything right."

Get a grip! The don't "cater" to poor people, they victimize them. Big difference! They are trying to attract new customers with some spending power left...those without a maxed out Wal-Mart credit cards and a house full of broken dreck.

Granted they don't carry the same prestige labels as Neiman-Marcus, where you presumably shop. And I do admit that their furniture and clothing is not the greatest (which is more a design issue than a quality issue). But for nearly all other categories of goods, they carry the same major brands you see everywhere, at much lower prices.

Don't shop at Neiman-Marcus...don't think I have ever been in one. Quality IS the issue, as is how they pay and treat employees an their competition. (Not to mention their predatory practices with suppliers.)

Not to mention that WalMart has forced everybody else to lower their prices and/or rethink their marketing strategy. Target wouldn't exist if it weren't for WalMart. And you'd be paying a hell of a lot more at Sears/K-Mart and JCPenney.

I don't mind paying a few cents more so that an employee isn't better off on welfare than working at Wal-Mart. I don't mind paying more for goods that are made in countries without child labour and starvation wages. I don't mind paying more to shop in a store where people have benefits and a decent prospect for a pension.

Yes Wal-Mart has changed the retail structure in the US...Just not for the better IMO. Cheaper is seldom better...especially in the long run. Where do you think those savings are coming from? Not the shareholder's pockets!

 

[josher]

What tbonez said! (Except that I have shopped in Neiman-Marcus. There seem to be some inverted snobs around here.)

 

[Lube]

I don't mind paying a few cents more so that an employee isn't better off on welfare than working at Wal-Mart. I don't mind paying more for goods that are made in countries without child labour and starvation wages. I don't mind paying more to shop in a store where people have benefits and a decent prospect for a pension.

Yes Wal-Mart has changed the retail structure in the US...Just not for the better IMO. Cheaper is seldom better...especially in the long run. Where do you think those savings are coming from? Not the shareholder's pockets!

Slo-bone vs. T-bonez. What is this, the War of the Bonez's??!

Yeah, although T-Bonez did sound a little uppity at first, I totally agree with the quotes above. I do not shop at Walmart if I can avoid it. Can't remember the last time I've been i one.

 

[slobone]

Funny, I don't qualify as retarded and I don't shop there. Could have something to do with their predatory business practices, the fact they pay 'poverty wages' and are anti 'organized labour'. Not to mention there isn't one anywhere near where I live...Thank God.

Gosh, I don't have the energy to get into all that. I don't agree, but I don't feel like spending all day doing research to back up my arguments. But I can make a few simple points:

The climate for business and employment has changed drastically in the US and Canada over the last few years, and WalMart is far from the only company whose employees aren't treated as lavishly as they were during the golden years of the 60's and 70's.

And I think it's interesting that so far, the two people who disagree with me the most strongly about WalMart say they refuse to go in one. So how do you know their merchandise is crap and the employees are miserable?

Get a grip! The don't "cater" to poor people, they victimize them. Big difference! They are trying to attract new customers with some spending power left...those without a maxed out Wal-Mart credit cards and a house full of broken dreck.

You're going to have to help me out here -- I have no idea what you mean by "victimize." Are you implying that they sell over-priced crap? On the contrary, as I already said, they sell the same brands as everyone else at much lower prices.

I don't mind paying a few cents more so that an employee isn't better off on welfare than working at Wal-Mart. I don't mind paying more for goods that are made in countries without child labour and starvation wages. I don't mind paying more to shop in a store where people have benefits and a decent prospect for a pension.

No, the countries with starvation wages and child labor, like most of Africa for example, are precisely the ones whose economies are such basket cases that they can't get it together enough to manufacture things that WalMart would buy to begin with.

China, which is pretty much what we're talking about, is currently growing at 11% a year -- so fast that the government is desperately figuring out ways to cool the economy down. And that translates into rapid growth in the standard of living. If you can think of a way to make them as rich as Americans overnight, I'd be interested to hear about it.

And good luck trying to find a store that only sells goods made in North America or Europe. Certainly not Hudson's Bay or Zeller's.

Yes Wal-Mart has changed the retail structure in the US...Just not for the better IMO. Cheaper is seldom better...especially in the long run. Where do you think those savings are coming from? Not the shareholder's pockets!

Well, the shareholders aren't too happy these days, because WalMart's stock price hasn't budged in several years. They can only stay on top by expanding, and they're finding that harder to do.

Look, retailing has always been a cutthroat business. Stores, and even whole chains, come and go with great rapidity -- and this was true way before WalMart was on the scene. Customers are fickle, that's just a reality.

Unless you're buying everything from a catalog that features items woven out of straw in third-world villages, you yourself are participating in the ruthless neo-colonialist victimization of all those exploited countries by bloated, greedy American capitalists and their running dogs, comrade. So relax, enjoy yourself, get in the SUV and go get a Big Mac with some Super-Size fries.

 

[tbonez]

WalMart is far from the only company whose employees aren't treated as lavishly as they were during the golden years of the 60's and 70's.

... the two people who disagree with me the most strongly about WalMart say they refuse to go in one. So how do you know their merchandise is crap and the employees are miserable?.

You're going to have to help me out here -- I have no idea what you mean by "victimize." Are you implying that they sell over-priced crap? On the contrary, as I already said, they sell the same brands as everyone else at much lower prices.

Actually I have shopped there, twice. Both experiences helped me develop my distaste for the place. It's also why I know there is a quality issue.

I needed an air filter for my Jeep. I bought a Fram with the same part number I always get. When I changed them out, old for new, I noticed the new Wal-Mart Fram was totally different, and inferior. It was the same size but had about a third fewer 'pleats' of filtering medium and the gasket was cheap hard-plastic instead of the usual soft rubber.

The second time was in Florida when I forgot to pack my trainers. I saw a flyer and they had New Balance trainers that looked like the kind I owned at home...They were about 30% less than I had paid at Foot Locker in Canada. When I got to the store and found my size I noticed that they weren't the same at all, they just looked similar (colour and markings). The uppers were hard and brittle and the insole and arch were CARDBOARD (under the liner).

Wal-Mart basically tells it's suppliers what it will pay for a product and the supplier reverse engineers the item to meet the cost restrictions. The consumer may think they are comparing apples to apples, but in fact the Wal-Mart apples may be paper-mâché and sawdust.

I can sight other examples. A neighbour of mine has a company that makes furnace filters (In Buffalo). He has a whole litany of Wal-Mart horror stories.

No, the countries with starvation wages and child labour, like most of Africa for example, are precisely the ones whose economies are such basket cases that they can't get it together enough to manufacture things that WalMart would buy to begin with.

China, which is pretty much what we're talking about, is currently growing at 11% a year -- so fast that the government is desperately figuring out ways to cool the economy down. And that translates into rapid growth in the standard of living. If you can think of a way to make them as rich as Americans overnight, I'd be interested to hear about it.

And good luck trying to find a store that only sells goods made in North America or Europe. Certainly not Hudson's Bay or Zeller's.

Actually Africa isn't the problem, it's Asia and East Asia. China is a problem for different reasons (not so much child labour). The standard of living and working conditions (in factories) are better than most in the region...Mining is the exception in China where working conditions are appalling and that's mostly because of corruption, the laws are actually relatively strict there. I have no problem buying things made in China.

...WalMart's stock price hasn't budged in several years. They can only stay on top by expanding, and they're finding that harder to do.

.

That is the point. Wal-Mart has itself acknowledged that it's traditional customer base is virtually bankrupt..buying even groceries on credit cards which are almost maxed out etc. More broke customers are not the solution, they are trying to attract people with some spending power left...Increasingly a problem in America.

... you yourself are participating in the ruthless neo-colonialist victimization of all those exploited countries by bloated, greedy American capitalists and their running dogs, comrade.

I have no real issue with other people engaging in "ruthless neo-colonialist victimization" and I drive a Jeep. (Not a Hummer but hardly a Toyota Yaris.)

I agree that there are no "perfect" solutions but I feel there are better options than living in a Wal-Mart world. I fully understand why people shop at Wal-mart, for some it is the best, brightest option...Some simply have no real choice. It's just not my choice. One shirt made in Hong Kong or Taiwan or Mexico may cost one-and-a-half times as much as a Wal-Mart knock-off made in some god-forsaken shit hole with child labour, but it will last four times as long IMO.

Some people may not care, as is their perfect right, but I sleep better knowing I'm not participating in an economy that chains children to machines for 80 hours a week and pays starvation wages. Just my thing.

 

[tbonez]

BTW, about your 'comrade' crack...(No, I'm not offended)

My politics, economically at least, are more than a bit right of centre. Paying wages so low that your employees can't afford what you sell is bad business practice when you are as 'big' as Wal-Mart. Not paying benefits or pensions by employing mostly part-time staff is off-loading a business expenses to the public sector. When these people get sick, can't work or have to retire who will pay for their medical bills and living expenses...You and I, not Wal-Mart.

I think that every American/Canadian who is ready, willing and able to work should have the opportunity to do so at a wage that guarantees they have a reasonable chance of living well above the poverty line...For their whole lives and even if they get sick and can't work. That's not "leftist" politics, it's sound economic policy.

Part of what makes these two countries so great is our shared standard of living. Let's not get in a race with the bottom feeders for the cheapest goods and labour. You may notice they are all trying to pull themselves up to our standard of living.

I'd just as soon not pass them on the way down.

 

[slobone]

The US still has the highest standard of living in the world, (except Luxembourg), so I'm not too worried. Can't speak for Canada.

I see people pay for groceries with credit cards everyday. They do it to get some kind of bonus points, or just for convenience. What the heck has that got to do with WalMart?

You didn't say what the price of the New Balance shoes was, but I'd be surprised if you could find a better shoe at the same price somewhere else. That's the advantage of WalMart's clout -- they can hold manufacturers to quality AND price standards that nobody else can. Naturally you'll find better trainers somewhere else, but at a much higher price unless they're on sale.

I paid $20 for a pair of hiking boots that lasted me two years. Can't beat that anywhere. Not Vibram soles, but well made in every way. I couldn't believe it myself.

As for the air filter, I don't know how to explain that. I seriously doubt Fram has two different lines, one for WalMart and one for everybody else.

And by the way, I've never had a problem returning things there for a cash refund. They have a "no-questions" policy and half the time I don't even have the receipt.

"Comrade" -- I was hoping you'd get that that was a joke. I obviously don't think you're a commie, or care if you are. But I am a little surprised to hear you call yourself right of center. I guess the center is in a different place in Canada.

As for labor laws in other countries, please keep in mind that the rest of the world isn't like North America. When people are desperately poor, they have to make hard choices. Sometimes sending your children out to work is the only way to put enough food on the table. Unfortunate but true. And it was common practice in the Western world up till the last century. Are these other countries expected to catch up with us overnight?

I think people beat up on WalMart for a variety of reasons, some more legitimate than others.

1) Some undeniably unfair labor practices that they've been caught doing. No argument there.

2) They're the biggest, so they're the easiest target. Why is that fair?

3) Snobbism. Their stuff is inexpensive, and sometimes of low quality. But I don't hear any poor people complaining, only the limousine liberals like Rob Reiner.

4) They've displaced all the old mom-and-pop stores. Well, I remember those stores, and believe me, they weren't all that great. That's just phony nostalgia.

Anyway -- truce? I can't handle another round, but I'll be glad to give you the last word.

Enough for me.

 

[tbonez]

I live for the last word!

Well not really, but...

The US still has the highest standard of living in the world, (except Luxembourg), so I'm not too worried. Can't speak for Canada.

US the "highest standard of living in the world"?? I didn't know that. Depends on what your 'standards' are I guess. I'd bet you'd rank in the top twenty on most lists, the top of a few isn't hard to buy.

I see people pay for groceries with credit cards everyday. They do it to get some kind of bonus points, or just for convenience. What the heck has that got to do with WalMart?

Many people are buying the necessities of life with 'debt'... food for example. Not for the "points", because they have NO CASH. That is a bad thing and in particular it's a problem because when people reach their 'limit' they can't afford to buy anything Wal-Mart sells. Wal-Mart has acknowledged as much many times.

As for the air filter, I don't know how to explain that. I seriously doubt Fram has two different lines, one for WalMart and one for everybody else.

They defiantly do (more than two apparently), and New Balance has several similar looking shoes at several price-points, Levis does the same thing with jeans, Quakerstate with motor oil...

But I am a little surprised to hear you call yourself right of center. I guess the center is in a different place in Canada.

Heck yes! Universal healthcare, same-sex marriage, gun control. I think our right starts where your left drops off.

I think people beat up on WalMart for a variety of reasons, some more legitimate than others.

I think my reasons are pretty legitimate for me, not to say they are for anyone else. We all get to chose.

BTW, it was nothing personal. I just was a bit surprised to see a Wal-Mart cheerleader and could resist the temptation to rustle her pom-poms bit.

 

[tbonez]

BTW,

Based on GDP (NOT the best measure of "standard of living" IMO, but the most common perhaps.) the US ranks sixth, not first.

Even Norway beats the US, go figure.

 

[tbonez]

Some other measures of "standard of living":

The most common lists look at income as well as rates of poverty and quality of life and takes into account not only the material standard of living, but also other factors such as safety, mental health, environmental quality issues etc have:

1. Norway
2. Sweden
3. Canada
4. Belgium
5. Australia
6. United States

Infant mortality rates: US, 36th (Canada 22nd)

http://www.geographyiq.com/ranking/ranking_Infant_Mortality_Rate_aall.htm

Literacy rates, the US is tied with about 20 other countries. (Including Canada)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate

Income inequality metrics, Richest 10% to poorest 10% sorted in descending order according has the US as 90th. (if memory serves)

 

[luminum]

I was thinking about them all day during my shift yesterday and became determined ot buy a dry erase board and make it my Gay Agenda planner. The first item on it is "Buy text books."

What makes these people think we care enough about them to plan and exact an agenda to subvert them and their religion? Assholes.