The beginnings of life, embyro = cancer?

[kallipolis]

Whether you define it as human or non-human is your business. You still have failed to answer why anything should have the right to grow inside of your body unless you want it there.

Your choice not to identify the human life, as human life growing inside the womb of its mother best illustrates your willingness to support the easy killing of innocent human life.

The baby's mother should assume responsibility for her choices when engaging in sexual intercourse fully knowing that conception is possible, even highly likely were contraception not being used.

 

[PolterGUYst]

We could go on and on attempting to define when human life begins. In the end, it's not even relevant. Human or non-human, if something is growing inside of your body, and you don't want it there, then you should be allowed to remove it from your body. Nothing trumps the rights I have over my own body. Same goes for a pregnant woman.

 

[Stardreamer]

You just contradicted yourself -- sentient = person.

And we know it doesn't happen before eighty days, because that's about when the brain is complete.



Birds show emotion -- so emotion isn't an indicator of sentience. Kittens respond to music, soothing sound and touch -- so those aren't signs, either.

What we know about personhood is that thinking being have complex brain waves. Those show up as the brain is finishing its development.

Kittens and birds have complex brain waves. In fact one rather controversial observation is that humans don't actually develop true sentience, an awareness of themselves as a distinct individual, until a year so after birth.

 

[Kulindahr]

Are you attempting to suggest that the zygote is not human life when your courts have decided that the zygote is human life, and that the two competing lobbies also accept that the zygote is human life.

You are well aware that the dividing issue is that of whether the zygote is a human person.

You're being very slippery in this thread -- first responding to things people didn't say, then repeating things as though they meant things they don't, and now you're doding.

You said a zygote is human life and continued as though that meant a blastocyst is a person. It does not. There are no logical grounds on which to believe it is so.

 

[kallipolis]

We could go on and on attempting to define when human life begins. In the end, it's not even relevant. Human or non-human, if something is growing inside of your body, which you own, and you don't want it there, then you should be allowed to remove it from your body.

The baby growing inside its mother's womb has a distinct DNA different from its mother, and its father and is the very epitome of the individual human person at its earliest stage of development completed at the death of that human person.

The law of the land permits abortion. I am not discussing legal nuances. If a mother wishes to abort her baby that is her right under the law of the land.

 

[Kulindahr]

Whether you define it as human or non-human is your business. You still have failed to answer why anything should have the right to grow inside of your body unless you want it there.

The question is, if that entity be a person, why anyone should have the right to murder it.

 

[kallipolis]

You're being very slippery in this thread -- first responding to things people didn't say, then repeating things as though they meant things they don't, and now you're doding.

You said a zygote is human life and continued as though that meant a blastocyst is a person. It does not. There are no logical grounds on which to believe it is so.

We Greeks also can spend time playing with Sophistic distractions in order to divert attention from the guts of the topic under discussion.

I choose not to so do.

I will not repeat myself when my earlier posts are transparent, and are not contested by the pro choice lobby on the matter of the zygote being human life.

 

[Kulindahr]

The brain is not absent when it is growing even though its presence is not measurable by medical science.

This is just mysticism.

 

[Rolyo85]

I don't think it is a person until it is autonomous enough to survive outside of the mother (which happens before it is born btw). But I am fascinated by how only one person addressed my rape scenario. Or are we gonna say women should accept the consequences of their action? I mean, they shouldn't have gotten themselves raped, knowing a conception might occur.

 

[FirmaFan]

Most certainly a zygote has a brain even though its activity is not measurable by medical science until its further development. To believe otherwise is to imagine that the brain suddenly implants - by an external source - itself into the fetus at some future stage in the development of the fetus.

And this is where I know that I should not continue this discussion with you any further, for if you are so removed from the reality that you are going to argue that either 1) a brain is always present or 2)the only other alternative is brain implantation from an external source, I know that I am not conversing with a person that is on a level consistent with reality. Your biological background is highly suspect after such a statement. A quick lesson. The brain is not present at conception, nor is it implanted from an external source. The same is true for eyes, ears, nose, mouth, heart, kidneys, intestines, bones, muscles, lymph nodes, blood vessels, or hair. The zygote progresses through various stages of growth during which all of these DEVELOP. They develop at different rates, at different stages, and at different times. There is a point where none of these things exist, a point where all of them exist, and a point where only some exist, all with varying degrees of completion. Some may have the misfortune of developing abnormally or not at all.

I understand now why you define a single celled zygote as a human life. It is your gross misunderstanding of the actual process of biological development.

 

[Telstra]

Non scientist here,
embyro is not = cancer or parasite !!!
Both cancer or parasite have zero benefits to its host.

 

[Kulindahr]

The developing brain is evidence that a brain exists even though medical science cannot measure its activity until its further development.

Excepting very rare conditions (already referred too) the brain is present, and is developing. The developed adult human being is evidence that there is a beginning to the process of the development of human life, and that process begins with conception.To believe otherwise would be to imagine that the brain suddenly appears out of thin air.

I focus on the topic not on personal innuendo. Others are also trying.

So if I put up the framework of a house, would you live in it and expect to have the wind and rain kept out?

Incomplete software is not a program. Incomplete computers cannot run software.

Incomplete brains cannot 'run' persons.


I'm sorry you're imagining innuendo.

 

[kallipolis]

This is just mysticism.

No. It's you trying to be cleaver yet, again

 

[Kulindahr]

Most certainly a zygote has a brain even though its activity is not measurable by medical science until its further development. To believe otherwise is to imagine that the brain suddenly implants - by an external source - itself into the fetus at some future stage in the development of the fetus.

Scientifically, there's a name for this:

trash.

A zygote is a set of undifferentiated cells. There is no head, no hands, no nose, no skin -- no brain.

Ditch the mysticism and let's talk science.

 

[kallipolis]

So if I put up the framework of a house, would you live in it and expect to have the wind and rain kept out?

Incomplete software is not a program. Incomplete computers cannot run software.

Incomplete brains cannot 'run' persons.


I'm sorry you're imagining innuendo.

\

I'll run with your analogy.

The software is complete enabling the hardware to develop in accordance with its programming.

Developing brains are just that; they develop over the years.

Today, I am a much more aware person than I was last year, or ten years ago.

I am still developing as a human person, and will continue to so do, until I die.

 

[Kulindahr]

We could go on and on attempting to define when human life begins. In the end, it's not even relevant. Human or non-human, if something is growing inside of your body, and you don't want it there, then you should be allowed to remove it from your body. Nothing trumps the rights I have over my own body. Same goes for a pregnant woman.

So you don't care about human rights if they annoy you. You should go work for the Russian federal police.

 

[kallipolis]

Scientifically, there's a name for this:

trash.

A zygote is a set of undifferentiated cells. There is no head, no hands, no nose, no skin -- no brain.

Ditch the mysticism and let's talk science.

Are you suggesting that the zygote programming lacks the head, brain etc. because the beginning of the development process of the human person has yet to develop those distinctly human features?

Does this early level of development of the human person make the human person less human, or merely evidences its very early stages of development?

 

[Kulindahr]

We Greeks also can spend time playing with Sophistic distractions in order to divert attention from the guts of the topic under discussion.

I choose not to so do.

I will not repeat myself when my earlier posts are transparent, and are not contested by the pro choice lobby on the matter of the zygote being human life.

Your earlier posts are slippery and vague. You draw conclusions without the use of any logic. And you have yet to offer any evidence in favor of a single cell being a person.

You're a master of dodging. Are you ever going to actually deal with the issues people are presenting you with?

 

[kallipolis]

Your earlier posts are slippery and vague. You draw conclusions without the use of any logic. And you have yet to offer any evidence in favor of a single cell being a person.

You're a master of dodging. Are you ever going to actually deal with the issues people are presenting you with?

I am ignoring your many personalisations and am awaiting your reply to my last for very shortly I must away to my bed for it is.... O205 here and I am working a 12 hour shift today starting at noon.

 

[Kulindahr]

I don't think it is a person until it is autonomous enough to survive outside of the mother (which happens before it is born btw). But I am fascinated by how only one person addressed my rape scenario. Or are we gonna say women should accept the consequences of their action? I mean, they shouldn't have gotten themselves raped, knowing a conception might occur.

I think most of us haven't responded because the notion that a rape victim shouldn't be allowed an abortion is so ridiculous we didn't think it worth saying anything.