The Clintons' Long Defeat

[SixPackInBoxers]

The Long Defeat

By DAVID BROOKS
New York Times, Published: March 25, 2008

Hillary Clinton may not realize it yet, but she’s just endured one of the worst weeks of her campaign.

First, Barack Obama weathered the Rev. Jeremiah Wright affair without serious damage to his nomination prospects. Obama still holds a tiny lead among Democrats nationally in the Gallup tracking poll, just as he did before this whole affair blew up.

Second, Obama’s lawyers successfully prevented re-votes in Florida and Michigan. That means it would be virtually impossible for Clinton to take a lead in either elected delegates or total primary votes.

EDIT by springboksfan: read the rest of the article at the link below.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/25/opinion/25brooks.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

 

[byro]

David Brooks is a moderate-conservative Republican (and I'm a liberal Democrat), but I often find his take on things to be reasonable -- and certainly he's read by the powers-that-be. Sadly, I think the scenario he's outlined is spot-on and I'm glad someone semi-prominent has finally said what's needed to be said. Now I wish some Democratic power broker who holds sway with Hillary and Bill (God knows who that could possibly be) would sit them down and have a sobering conversation -- even if she does well in Pennsylvania, as she's expected to do.

She can go down with a total lack of dignity or she can go down like a Stateswoman, but she's clearly going to go down.

A spade is a spade. Enough is enough. It's time for reality to return, the bloodletting to stop, and the unification of the party to begin.

God bless you, Hillary, and thank you for your service, both in the past and in the years to come. But if you love your country as much as I know you do, do the right thing and make way for the inevitable now before it's too late.

 

[Inwood]

Sadly I must agree, byro. I originally had the mindset of "let the process finish and let all of the primaries finish before declaring a winner" but now it's just getting ridiculous. The Democrats are once again at each other's throats, which only serves the Republicans further in their argument that we can't get it together.

Howard Dean needs to sit Barack and Hillary down in a room and smack them both in the heads, then a deal needs to be brokered between the two of them. As much as I hate to say it, Hillary needs to concede and hope for the veep spot, or at least a cabinet position.

 

[MystikWizard]

Howard Dean needs to sit Barack and Hillary down in a room and smack them both in the heads, then a deal needs to be brokered between the two of them. As much as I hate to say it, Hillary needs to concede and hope for the veep spot, or at least a cabinet position.

I don't think Barack wants her as his VP, much less even on his Administration. I just don't think he trusts her and would likely worry about sabotage from within. I don't even know if VP would be an option for Hillary.

 

[naked gent]

For all the success the Clintons have claimed in beating the "republican smear machine" they never mention their first great gift to the republican party which was governing so badly for the first two yrs of the Clinton administration that for the first time in a generation the republicans managed to take control of the HOR in 1994.

They are on the verge of giving the republicans a second great gift which is to tear Obama down so much that they destroy his chances come November.

This should be the dems yr because you have a very unpopular president on his way our after 8 yrs. The last 3 times this happened (Wilson, Truman and Johnson) the party in power lost.

That should be the republicans fate this yr but the Clinton's are doing all they can to help them escape that fate.

They really should try helping their party instead of the opposition party.

 

[MystikWizard]

They really should try helping their party instead of the opposition party.

Because they have no interest in helping their party. They are just out for themselves, and are using the Democratic Party as a voter base. Nothing more.

She wants nothing more than to take her place in the history books as the First Woman President, and due to all of her baggage that eventually did her in ... this will cost her that chance. She has nobody to blame, but herself.

 

[mikeb6452]

I too, unfortunately, echo the statements made in the article. I have long been a Clinton supporter, and often said even if she wasn't the parties nominee I would support Obama, but now, I am leaning towards McCain...I like to focus on the issues and the future, and lately all this Obama-Clinton accusations, and their supporters name calling have completely turned me off and it's getting old now. I do believe they are damaging this election for the democrates...how can one unify the country if they can't unify their own party?......oh well.....

 

[MystikWizard]

I too, unfortunately, echo the statements made in the article. I have long been a Clinton supporter, and often said even if she wasn't the parties nominee I would support Obama, but now, I am leaning towards McCain...I like to focus on the issues and the future, and lately all this Obama-Clinton accusations, and their supporters name calling have completely turned me off and it's getting old now. I do believe they are damaging this election for the democrates...how can one unify the country if they can't unify their own party?......oh well.....

You do realize that you just contradicted yourself. You want to focus on the issues yet you are turned off by supporters and not focusing on the issues, so you would rather go to McCain and endorse what he stands for, 100 years in Iraq and further bankrupting this country by following the Bush Agenda then doing the right thing and voting on the issues (like you just said) .. many of which Obama and Hillary agree with.

Perception is reality, and the Obama supporters have every right to be upset at the Clinton supporters, for how her campaign drug race and gender into this thing. I'm sorry if you don't like it when people fight back, but nobody is going to take the kind of crap the Clinton campaign dished out and sit on their thumbs about it.

 

[byro]

I'd like to think that now that someone like David Brooks, who's part of the self-referential punditry world, has pointed out the elephant in the room that others will start talking about this publicly as well. He's on PBS, his articles are quoted, Chris Matthews and the rest, as well as party leaders will all be aware of this column and it may finally become a topic of conversation.

 

[mikeb6452]

So Midnight77, is this all you do is analzye everyone's statements and views? Interesting....

I do not contradict myself. First, both the supporters of Obama and Clinton with their namecalling one another is a turn off. It's not focusing on the issues. Secondly, I have read and looked at some of the positions McCain endorses and supports and I support those as well.

You will never get a candidate whose views are 100% percent aligned with yours. Thus, though I may not agree with all of McCain's views, I do on some.

This election, is not only about the war.

And least ye forgot, Obama is not all that innocent himself. Inexperience is just as important to me as any issue.

Lastly, no need to be sorry for me, Midnight77, I don't like to hear any candidate fighting, and it's not about "fighting back" it's called distracting from the message. Can't they ignore it and stick to their message and the issues instead of having to respond constantly? It's just too much now. Sorry, but I do believe your candidate and Clinton are handing the Presidency to McCain...as, I am one of those independents who was for Clinton now going for him.

 

[southern fox]

This is exactly how I am beginning to view Clinton.

With no disrespect for her, I'm beginning to see her as a political careerist at heart. I don't hate her, and I really don't understand or agree with the passionate and undeserved hate that Republicans have for her. But I am beginning to see her genuine negative features brought to light as this campaign drags on, and I'm stunned by the lack of foresight or principle.

I risk sounding like a Hillary basher, but that is not my intention. My opinion of her has gone from "Warm" to "Lukewarm" to "What is she thinking?". I was more than resigned and content that she would be the next President last year, when her campaign was "inevitable", even though Obama was my favorite. But that changed quickly when Obama's campaign outmaneuvered her.

At this point, her campaign just comes off as so narrow, mercilessly tearing at Obama despite having no mathematical hope of winning the nomination, and willfully causing entrenched fractures in the Democratic base that can only questionably be healed before November. If she really wants the ideals that she believes in to be implemented, if she really wants to prevent a McCain presidency that would certainly continue Bush's legacy, then its best to just stop. Increasing numbers of Democratic voters have become so entrenched in their choice that they are unwilling to accept another nominee (I would still happily vote for Hillary to prevent a disastrous Republican continuation), and she has not the slightest concern.

McCain now has a genuine shot at the presidency. Her implications that McCain would be more qualified for the job than Obama are just absurd. Does she care at all about the ideas that she and Obama stand for? She has every right to run, but I'm puzzled at the lack of foresight in her strategy. Its no longer about explaining her strength and judgment, its now about attacking the other guy. And Mark Penn needs to keep his toxic mouth shut.

I appreciate that she has been in the public eye and has endured quite a bit of irrational hate with strength, but I just don't see her as any more experienced than anyone else. Technically, McCain would have the most "experience", having been in politics longest and having a military career pertinent to the war. Even on the Democratic side, you had Richardson and Dodd, with arguably more experience. In the end, intellect and judgment is most important qualification, and Obama wins. Being the wife of a former president is not experience, nor does it create an entitlement. She did lifting on particular single issues the same way that most presidential wives do (Laura Bush on education), but to construe it as executive power is dishonest. Her message about superior executive talent does not convince me in the slightest; she ran a haphazard campaign with a hands-off approach that has been outmaneuvered by a dark horse candidate, and by all indications is internally factitious. Its shifted messages incessantly, from "Inevitable", to "The Hillary that I know", to, "Change", then to, "Solutions".

She will probably go on to win Pennsylvania with a 10 point margin, but lose North Carolina, Oregon, and so on. Probably Guam too. She may or may not win Indiana, and perhaps a few isolated others, but I can't tell yet. Its questionable to me what this is all for. Career?

 

[MystikWizard]

So Midnight77, is this all you do is analzye everyone's statements and views? Interesting....

I do not contradict myself. First, both the supporters of Obama and Clinton with their namecalling one another is a turn off. It's not focusing on the issues. Secondly, I have read and looked at some of the positions McCain endorses and supports and I support those as well.

You will never get a candidate whose views are 100% percent aligned with yours. Thus, though I may not agree with all of McCain's views, I do on some.

This election, is not only about the war.

And least ye forgot, Obama is not all that innocent himself. Inexperience is just as important to me as any issue.

Lastly, no need to be sorry for me, Midnight77, I don't like to hear any candidate fighting, and it's not about "fighting back" it's called distracting from the message. Can't they ignore it and stick to their message and the issues instead of having to respond constantly? It's just too much now. Sorry, but I do believe your candidate and Clinton are handing the Presidency to McCain...as, I am one of those independents who was for Clinton now going for him.

Again, your logic is flawed when Clinton and Obama agree on more "issues" than McCain and Hillary. This proves that no, you do not focus on the issues, like you so claim. You're free to do as you wish, as a voter, though. But you are letting personal matters influence your vote. Don't feel alone. You can join the millions of other voters in the country who are also letting their personal feelings enter the election, such as the Blacks who are voting for Obama because of his Race, and because of the Feminists who are voting for Hillary because of her gender. Except, you think someone's supporters are more important than ending a War in Iraq and fixing the Economy, apparently.

Please.

 

[byro]

Southern Fix, it is always a pleasure to read your posts; you're thorough, fair, articulate, grounded, non-inflammatory and SMART. I refuse to believe for a second that you're 19 because if you are you put the rest of us to shame!

 

[Kulindahr]

Because they have no interest in helping their party. They are just out for themselves, and are using the Democratic Party as a voter base. Nothing more.

She wants nothing more than to take her place in the history books as the First Woman President, and due to all of her baggage that eventually did her in ... this will cost her that chance. She has nobody to blame, but herself.

She learned that from the Democratic Party: their strategy has been to maneuver special interest groups with promises but not really be interested in their benefit. It's too bad that Hillary going down won't take that system with her.

Brooks pretty much sums up the way I've come to see things: it's over, fat lady singing or not. She indeed has no one to blame but herself for her position, and if she keeps on, she'll have no one to blame but herself for screwing her party's chances.

 

[MystikWizard]

I agree up to a point. Without Hillary, Obama would not be learning to fight. He'll need to fight against wild man McCain, no matter how much he would like to rise above the rhetoric.

Well, McCain is already making a fool out of himself with his statements, with Lieberman having to correct him so he didn't do it further. I think Obama can really make McCain look foolish in the debates leading up to the General Election ... as he communicates his message so much more eloquently than McCain does ... who frequently relies on a teleprompter for all his speeches.

 

[byro]

Without Hillary, Obama would not be learning to fight.

Yes, in the early debates, Hillary ran circles around him. But in the final ones he was infinitely better than he'd been and, in my opinion, came across better than she did. She forced him to hone his debate skills and he's a stronger candidate now for it.

(Also, it really impressed me how quickly and well he learned.)

 

[construct]

When I compare Clinton's campaign to Huckabee's, Huckabee comes off looking a lot better in my opinion. Of course, Huckabee differs greatly with McCain on numerous issues while Clinton's positions are very similar to Obama's. Perhaps Clinton's campaign is so vicious because the stakes are so low.

 

[southern fox]

Southern Fix, it is always a pleasure to read your posts; you're thorough, fair, articulate, grounded, non-inflammatory and SMART. I refuse to believe for a second that you're 19 because if you are you put the rest of us to shame!

I appreciate that.

I think it's perfectly healthy for Democrats to go through this process. It's time for both parties to start seriously considering what they are all about. Republicans have done that in the party ranks and for many it will be hard to vote for McCain if they vote at all. Clinton and Obama supporters are arguing less about the issue and more about the process. I think, again, this is healthy.

Good point here, as others have said, but up to a limit.

The debates and exchanges have clearly made Obama exercise his muscles. He has grown from the experience very quickly.

The question is how long should this situation go on (with the outcome obvious, and with opinions on candidates becoming aggressively entrenched), and how dirty does Clinton need to get before she is drawing too much blood needlessly? I increasingly feel like she does not have concern here., and with McCain somewhat gaining strength, I feel like its irresponsible.

 

[Lostlover]

This is exactly how I am beginning to view Clinton.

With no disrespect for her, I'm beginning to see her as a political careerist at heart. I don't hate her, and I really don't understand or agree with the passionate and undeserved hate that Republicans have for her. But I am beginning to see her genuine negative features brought to light as this campaign drags on, and I'm stunned by the lack of foresight or principle.

I risk sounding like a Hillary basher, but that is not my intention. My opinion of her has gone from "Warm" to "Lukewarm" to "What is she thinking?". I was more than resigned and content that she would be the next President last year, when her campaign was "inevitable", even though Obama was my favorite. But that changed quickly when Obama's campaign outmaneuvered her.

At this point, her campaign just comes off as so narrow, mercilessly tearing at Obama despite having no mathematical hope of winning the nomination, and willfully causing entrenched fractures in the Democratic base that can only questionably be healed before November. If she really wants the ideals that she believes in to be implemented, if she really wants to prevent a McCain presidency that would certainly continue Bush's legacy, then its best to just stop. Increasing numbers of Democratic voters have become so entrenched in their choice that they are unwilling to accept another nominee (I would still happily vote for Hillary to prevent a disastrous Republican continuation), and she has not the slightest concern.

McCain now has a genuine shot at the presidency. Her implications that McCain would be more qualified for the job than Obama are just absurd. Does she care at all about the ideas that she and Obama stand for? She has every right to run, but I'm puzzled at the lack of foresight in her strategy. Its no longer about explaining her strength and judgment, its now about attacking the other guy. And Mark Penn needs to keep his toxic mouth shut.

I appreciate that she has been in the public eye and has endured quite a bit of irrational hate with strength, but I just don't see her as any more experienced than anyone else. Technically, McCain would have the most "experience", having been in politics longest and having a military career pertinent to the war. Even on the Democratic side, you had Richardson and Dodd, with arguably more experience. In the end, intellect and judgment is most important qualification, and Obama wins. Being the wife of a former president is not experience, nor does it create an entitlement. She did lifting on particular single issues the same way that most presidential wives do (Laura Bush on education), but to construe it as executive power is dishonest. Her message about superior executive talent does not convince me in the slightest; she ran a haphazard campaign with a hands-off approach that has been outmaneuvered by a dark horse candidate, and by all indications is internally factitious. Its shifted messages incessantly, from "Inevitable", to "The Hillary that I know", to, "Change", then to, "Solutions".

She will probably go on to win Pennsylvania with a 10 point margin, but lose North Carolina, Oregon, and so on. Probably Guam too. She may or may not win Indiana, and perhaps a few isolated others, but I can't tell yet. Its questionable to me what this is all for. Career?

POST OF THE YEAR​

 

[frankfrank]

Unfortunately it's becoming more and more obvious that she will continue to kick and scream, and do whatever she can possibly do to trash Obama, and I don't think she even cares whether she completely destroys the Democratic Party in her absolute lust for power.

If she ends up prevailing, whether via lawsuits or whatever (I put NOTHING past her!!!!!!!!), it will be an empty victory, because it will be absolutely impossible for her to win.

In other words, at this time, I feel that it is impossible that we will have a President Clinton in 2009, unless something unforseen and horrible happens to Obama or McCain.

She may be staying in, in hopes that Obama will self-destruct in the meantime. While she does her best to destroy Obama, she's ignoring McCain and even praising him. Hillary Clinton is the dream candidate for the Republicans - she's helping them more than John McCain is!

I hope she's outta here soon, but I fear she's in until at least the North Carolina primary. I'm not even sure she'd dump, even if she loses in Pennsylvania, though at that time the fat lady will be singing out loud.