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The Electoral College

[*]Candidates would have campaign in all 50 states to reach all of the people.

When the 2008 Democratic nomination was fought over, in the primaries, between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, the latter made a speech that pretty much said, "As I'm sure you are well-aware, the election is won through the swing states."

Of course that's not true.

What the swing states are about are margins. Numbers. Single-digit margins of victory for a candidate in the last cycle. In 2004, George W. Bush was [re-]elected, over John Kerry, with 286 electoral votes. Nine states were in Bush's column by single-digit margins: Iowa (0.67) and New Mexico (0.79) which, for Bush, were Republican pickups; Ohio (2.11), Nevada (2.59), Colorado (4.67), Florida (5.01), Missouri (7.20), Virginia (8.20), and Arkansas (9.76). Obama, as 2008's Democratic pickup, flipped all those states except Mo. and Ark. He shifted 9.72% away from the incumbent party (and its nominee John McCain), easily erasing Bush's 2.46% national margin (historically the lowest for a re-elected incumbent), and won the 2008 popular vote by 7.26%. Making up for not flipping Mo. (bare hold for McCain, at 0.13) and Ark. (one of two states that conspicuously went in opposite direction of the national tide and toward McCain, at 19.86) were Obama winning pickups with North Carolina and Indiana. (Bush carried Kerry's vice-presidential running mate's home state at 12.43, and he carried Ind. at 20.68.)

Numbers are involved. But shifts are all over. And they're easily one sided in elections where we switch the party in the White House. When that happens, as was the case in 2000 (D to R) and 2008 (R to D), the tide goes against the incumbent party and toward the challenging party. And that's true regardless of the specific states visited during a presidential campaign.

Let's not kid ourselves. After N.M. and Arizona joined the union, 100 years ago in 1912, we had our 48 contiguous United States. And from that point forward there were 11 (of the last 25) elections that saw the winner carry beyond 80 percent of the available states. Those came in 1912, 1928, 1932, 1936, 1952, 1956, 1964, 1972, 1980, 1984, and 1988. Also during this period, there were 4 elections that saw the winner carry a 70 percentile range of available states. Those came in 1920, 1924, 1940, and 1944. So, 15 of the last 25 elections resulted in the winner carry more three-quarters of the states. In the last five elections (1992 through 2008), no winner has shot past the 60 percentile range. Bill Clinton (1992, 1996) and George W. Bush (2000, 2004) were in the low 60s. (Neither won more than Clinton's 32 states, from '92.) In 2008, Barack Obama won 28, for 56% of available states. But his electoral votes were on par with Clinton's.

What this tells me is that both parties like Hillary Clinton's philosophy. Why? It means not spending the campaign money, as well as the time and energy, on states that are small in population, regardless of whether their voters can be won over. For example, Idaho, Utah, and Wyoming were routinely voting for the winner of nearly every election from the 1910s through the 1950s. So was Arizona, in its first five decades of statehood during this exact period. During that time, Utah got it "wrong" only in 1912, and likewise Wyo. in 1944. And that's a reliable record with each. 1960 seemed to mark the period when they could no longer be counted on, and they tilted Republican ever since. (Word is that, for those who believe the 1960 election was bought for John Kennedy, his father didn't want to go too all-out and said, "I'm not trying to buy a landslide.") Nowadays Ariz., with its changing demographics, is being perceived as potentially competitive. Also nowadays, Idaho, Utah, and Wyo. will vote Republican with more than 60% of their states' electorate even in years the GOP loses. Well, in 1992, when Clinton unseated George Bush Sr., Ariz. held for the 41st president by 1.95% while Wyo. held by 5.60%. Perhaps this is nothing, given the trio's combined 13 electoral votes barely outnumbers Ariz. (now with 11 electoral votes; they were close to reaching 12 for this decade).

I say it comes down to both parties figuring there's little importance of a landslide on the scale of 40 states and/or 400 electoral votes and up. That you can just look at the "traditional swing states" of Florida and Ohio, ranked Nos. 4 and 7 in population, and figure those two states are premium examples of determining who will be assured of having won. (They vote usually no greater than five points outside the national margin.) After all, Fla. has been in the column of all winners since 1928 (except John Kennedy, in 1960, and Bill Clinton, in 1992, both narrowly having missed getting it). And Ohio now has the top reputation: it has voted for all winners since 1896 (except 1944, when Tom Dewey flipped it on Franklin Roosevelt, despite having won his fourth term, thanks in part to having Ohio congressman John Bricker as his v.p.; and with 1960, when Ohio, like Fla., said no to JFK).
 
In my country every vote counts, but my country is about as big as Indiana. Still, I was also under the impression that abolishing the College would be more democratic, until I realized how few people actually bother to vote. What was it - about 30% total? If more people voted, EVERY state would be a swing state and thus every vote would matter. In a country as big as the US, counting vote by vote might really not be the best option. But energizing people to vote is always good. And a thing Obama seems to excel at.
 
In my country every vote counts, but my country is about as big as Indiana. Still, I was also under the impression that abolishing the College would be more democratic, until I realized how few people actually bother to vote. What was it - about 30% total? If more people voted, EVERY state would be a swing state and thus every vote would matter. In a country as big as the US, counting vote by vote might really not be the best option. But energizing people to vote is always good. And a thing Obama seems to excel at.

It's usually around 50% in presidential elections.
 
GEBush was not that good a campaigner.
Nonononono...yeah he was born in Connecticut, which is in the EAST, but he eventually moved to Texas. Therefore, being in the west, the E changed to a W and he became George W Bush, lol.

Want proof? There's even a town called George West in Texas, haha

REGARDING THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE: I think we all (or mostly) know that a number of states aren't about to give up their disproportionate voice, and therefore the number of states necessary to ratify a Constitutional Amendment (even assuming the unlikelihood it made it through both chambers of Congress and got signed by the President) is highly unlikely. I can't imagine ONLY twelve states not wanting to ratify it - I'd think it would be more like 20-30 that wouldn't want to change the status quo.

However, I have an idea which might make the Electoral vote a little bit more fair. Admittedly it would give a small edge to Republicans, but I still think this makes more sense.

Electoral votes, of course, are quantified the same as the number of Senators and Representatives each state has. EVERY state always has two Senators (no more, no less), and at least one Representative. Examples of the low Electoral count of three include South Dakota, Wyoming, Alaska and probably 1 or 2 more. (Idaho, North Dakota, have 4.)

n = number of total electoral votes that a state has.

[n - 2] pertains to the number of Representatives the state has. Those Electors should vote in the same proportion as their state's population voted, so if the Republican candidate got 60% and the Democrat got 40%, six Electors would vote for the Republican, four for the Democrat.

[2] pertains to the number of Senators. Those two Electors would both vote Republican, as the Republican candidate "won" the state.
 
^ (too late to further edit) I guess, though, the question would be how to determine which two Electors were "equivalent to" the Senators headcount? There are more than fifty Electors in California, for example.

Perhaps the two Electors (analogous to Senators) would be chosen by some sort of random method?
 
But it wouldn't get us away from the perpetual election syndrome.

Actually some research was done on methods for getting a thoughtful, sensible, educated leader. The best system found was where the people elect representatives, who in turn elect from among their numbers representatives to a higher body, who in turn do the same, and that highest body elects one of its own to be the head guy. What happened was that at each level the hotheads and fringe types got weeded out. I have no idea how we could implement that, but it would give us a chief executive not beholden to kissing babies and such.

Us transforming to a parliamentary system would certainly be a great leap toward that goal, but it ain't gonna happen here. We can't even get something simple and noncontroversial, such as Instant Runoff Voting, into our politics.
 
Not for total popular vote. It doesn't solve the main problems. Need changes in the electoral system.

Electoral votes should be awarded in direct proportion to the popular vote on a state-by-state basis.
This would actually work, especially for the larger states. Otherwise....

[*]Eliminate the power of the big states to control the election.
Actually, this would make it worse. Those states with virtually no population, like South Dakota and Rhode Island, would have even less effect then than they do now. At least with the electoral college they get some leeway.

[*]Candidates would have campaign in all 50 states to reach all of the people.
Heh. They would have even fewer states to worry about than now. The Midwest would never even see a candidate.
[*]Candidates would need a majority of the popular vote in a majority of states to earn their electoral votes.
Same with electoral colleges. The effect is just magnified by the electoral college.
[*]Everyone's vote would count, not just the one vote that makes the total greater than the other candidate. The candidate you voted for would have an electoral college vote.
Again, excluding the smallest states.
[*]Automatically compensate for voting irregularities. Florida 2000, only one electoral vote would have been contested instead of the whole state.
You'll always have "voting irregularities"; they are usually caused by people voting against the way others think that they should vote...
[*]The election would finally be fair truly representing the will of the people.
Heh.

RG
 
RG, the proportional awarding of electoral votes would force candidates to campaign on more states than now. California has 55 votes, IIRC. If polls told a candidate he was going to get 32 of those, that would mean he'd have to pick up 23 other somewhere to make up for the fact that he isn't getting all of California's votes.

But he'd just head for other big states. It wouldn't be worth his time to hit small states unless things were looking really close. Candidates would have to pay close attentions to polls -- if you think there are lots of polls now, such a situation would make them come daily from a multitude of polling organizations, as politicians sought to determine where to fly next for tweaking the balance. In the end, it could be a situation identical to today: those states with fluid votes -- swing states -- would get attention, while the states where the polls remained constant would get ignored.
 
You know I don't understand the modern concept of seeing the candidate. I would much rather read their stated opinions than hear them smooze me in a campaign speech. One way is much more susceptible to bullshit. I can tell you it isn't the written word.

Perhaps a proper policy would be to copy sports using the capitol of each state and then one additional city to be nominated by the state. Then require a set amount of Presidential debates and select from the capitols and nominated cities on a rotating cycle.

People who are gonna vote and who are interested will watch or read about the debates. People who aren't won't vote anyway so it really doesn't matter how many times a candidate is in their city.

Times have changed in information and communication and it is high time our process adjusted. Actually it already has but it would nice if we adjusted it on a schedule.
 
Had a chance to look at the map and am getting 303 Obama to 235 Romney.

This is with the Battleground states going as follows:

Arizona: Romney
Colorado: Obama
Florida: Romney
Iowa: Obama
Michigan: Obama
Missouri: Romney
Nevada: Obama
New Hampshire: Obama
North Carolina: Romney
Ohio: Obama
Virginia: Obama
Wisconsin: Obama

RealClearPolitics - 2012 Election Maps - Obama vs. Romney Create Your Own Electoral Map

And this exercise pretty much shows that Obama is beating Mitt "Cardboard" Romney this November.
 
You know I don't understand the modern concept of seeing the candidate. I would much rather read their stated opinions than hear them smooze me in a campaign speech. One way is much more susceptible to bullshit. I can tell you it isn't the written word.

It's in our genes to want to actually see a potential leader and assess him in person, so our developed instincts can tell us which way to choose.
 
And this exercise pretty much shows that Obama is beating Mitt "Cardboard" Romney this November.

try looking at latest poll #s in:
wisconsin
michigan
ohio
colorado
virginia

some are for romney now, others are much closer then they were

bad enough that you loathe:
women
older people
people not up to your beauty standards

that's bad enough

but lazy too ?
 
And this exercise pretty much shows that Obama is beating Mitt "Cardboard" Romney this November.

I would agree. I know our colleague Chance wants to look at polls in some of the battleground states now, which is fair ... but the thing to keep in mind is that this is about as good as it is going to get for Romney ... for the primary reason that what we are seeing now is not actually Pro-Romney, but rather the Anti-Obama sentiment. Once Romney is put under the spotlight, I guarantee the public is not going to be impressed. It will only go downhill for him once everyone is full-on in General Election mode, put in debates (which are not his strong point), etc.

Romney's performance is Massachusetts was dismal. If he couldn't create jobs, which is the main thing the American public wants to see .... and has a reputation as a flip-flopper, "will say anything to get elected" politician, supports Bush-type economic and Foreign policies ... you mean to tell me this is going to go over well with the American public?

They have not forgotten about Bush yet, I assure you.
 
^
What's funny is the Romney campaign is saying they haven't yet begun to make their case against the president.

The longer they wait to make their case against the president, the better it is for them. A lot of President Obama's policies, like Obamacare and the mandate, were actually Romney's.
 
No matter what the polls say, people cannot afford to become complacent on November 6. Even if Obama is ahead by 5 points in Omaha, Amana, Urbana, and Alabama, supporters cannot just sit home and not go through the "motions" of voting - which Democratic minded people do all too often.

I swear, getting Democrats to do something is like herding cats - while, at least on some issues, Republicans will behave as efficiently and predictably as a colony of bees.
 
But it wouldn't get us away from the perpetual election syndrome.

Actually some research was done on methods for getting a thoughtful, sensible, educated leader. The best system found was where the people elect representatives, who in turn elect from among their numbers representatives to a higher body, who in turn do the same, and that highest body elects one of its own to be the head guy. What happened was that at each level the hotheads and fringe types got weeded out. I have no idea how we could implement that, but it would give us a chief executive not beholden to kissing babies and such.

This sounds like a good system because it would allow people to make decisions that are not purely partisan like voters are tricked into doing.

This system calls into question the need for a president anyways, why we elect our presidents the way we do isn't the best method and we have had some pretty bad presidents who abuse their power.

The power of the president is out of control, also the power of minorities within political parties are out of control.

I think when America was founded they were not sure what to do, they learned lessons from British rule, but the founders also seemed to add complexity because they were not sure what they wanted in a country, so they made it hard to change things.

One thing is certain, people really dont respect the federal government anymore because it has become so out of touch, we have them writing laws to protect their own positions while sacrificing our futures in the process.
 
Lets not reinvent the wheel. The parliamentary system has worked astonishingly well in most of the Democracies of the world. It is too important to experiment with and too hard to change.
 
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