The end of the line :(

[shygay19]

http://www.justusboys.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155710

This is a continuation of this thread.
19 y old friend from school.

August: We see each other, friendly but close
December: Buy christmas presents together
December: Movie night together
January: Movie night together
Mars: Meet again see the old thread for "sobbing episode"

Today: I see him in town. We talk and laugh and just hang around. I ask him if he still likes me he says yes and I say I like you. A little afterwards I ask him if he knew in school that I was interested in guys. He says that he didn't know - that I have never told him (WTF????) and that he is STRAIGHT!!

How is this even possible?? I have no self-esteem, I always assume that people think the worst of me, and I "KNEW" and that he was into me. I'm starting to feal psychotic. IS THIS FOR REAL??

- Did I just image that, when I said "I don't have nothing against homosexuals", he smiled big time?
- In last fall,that he slept over at my place just because he didn't bother taking the train and bus home coming home in an hour at 05.00??
- Did I just image that just a friend would want to meet me doing NOTHING??
- Didn't he understand when I sat one inch from him in the sofa looking at a movie?
- Did I image that he was holding his fkn hand over his dick and that he was looking at me a little?
- Did I falsely presume that questions if we could see each other before new years eve instead of the day after (just a week in difference) and if I was home alone were indications that he was gay??
- Did I just imagine that he was gay when I through Internet (altough he said he was very drunk) said:

- I like you. (One min later I send an SMS declaring that I'm bisexual).
- It feels strange but I like you to.
- Do you really understand what I mean by liking?
- Yeah.

- Was it just a friendly hug I gave him when I was feeling down last time I saw him?
- Was it just a friend insisting on paying for restaurant visits, not getting back loans, listening to me and so on.

Am I turning crazy? Am I psychotic?
Is he kidding? Is he gay? Is he changing his mind?'
What the FUCK is going on??



My self-esteem is crushed forever. I'm falling into shambles...

 

[oocman]

You are not crazy. But maybe he's your friend and just trying to be "your friend", and not "your lover".

When you are looking at guys, it's better to look for guys you "know" are gay, not those you "hope" are gay.

So buck up, let that sleeping dog lie and move on. He's your friend, keep it that way.

 

[SilverRRCloud]

Dude,

If he says, he is STRAIGHT, you have got to take his word for it. He might have been sending mixed signals recently and he might be confused, curious or whatever. You told him, you were bi. Tell him, he is welcome at your place at any time.

And move on. You have got a life to live.

SC

 

[Andreus]

once he says hes not interested its pointless to try to figure out why

men have been turned down for as long as they have been in existence, so its not really a gay thing

just understand that everyone has a right to refuse our interests in them and if we put too much into them before we know what page they are on, it gets too intense for us and feels like rejection

but

its really just someone saying no thanks

its hard to hear when you are so invested, but you are strong enough to say no to yourself

there are plenty of other guys out there

give one of them a chance

 

[mnaoitb]

being "gay" isnt easy for everyone...

 

[NickCole]

I hadn't read your other opening post you linked to here but I have now and here's what I think.

You might have understood what he's thinking or you might have misunderstood it, and hopefully that will straighten itself out. But in the meantime you are hurting yourself by obsessing on him and your feelings for him -- at a time that you need your focus to be on your personal problems.

If your self esteem is zero and you're depressed and you have such self-loathing for who you are and some of your physical traits, it's much more important that you learn to love yourself than to give this other man your love.

Stop beating up yourself for the way you've behaved with him. You weren't the person you want to be but you weren't unkind or deceitful, you were merely uncomfortable. You can be the man you envision but to become that you're going to have to put work into addressing your problems, whatever they are, that led to zero self esteem and depression.

I think you might find great relief and help if you make an appointment with a doctor and get that kind of focused, objective professional counsel. You sound like a good person, smart, sensitive, caring, who has developed some self-destructive thinking habits -- probably as a way of surviving difficult circumstances. You can break out of that, bring yourself out into fresh air and sunlight and take deep satisfying breaths -- but to do that you'll have to put aside the desperation to be in love with someone else and want him to make your life better. You're going to have to do those things for yourself, that's the only way.

Then, after you've done that, you'll fall in love with someone who's in love with you and even though you might still be nervous at first, you'll be comfortable in your own skin and he'll be able to love the person you really are.

Find someone to help you. There are some big things in life we can't do alone. Sometimes it takes two.

A lot of people have been through the struggle you're going through. Some make it out and become full and satisfied people capable of experiencing joy and healthy relationships. Some do not. The difference is whether or not you're willing to put in the work that's necessary. You have many years of life ahead of you -- isn't the possibility of those years being happy ones reason enough to start the work today? Give this to yourself.

 

[shygay19]

I can't stop thinking about him. When we met and I thought we "would have sex" he visited me I said hi or something short like that and we went inside. I sat in an armchair with my hand on my cock rubbing it a little glancing at him a second or to at a time and he sat a meter away just STARING me into the eyes!! I don't know what that expression means. Like head bent a little down and no smile just STARING. Sort of like "I'll kill you you bastard"-stare. LOL.

Maybe he got the feeling that something wasn't right with me (although I had not uttered anything stupid) and tried to really see in my eyes what was happening. Should also be noted that I was breathing Ahhhhh Ohhhhh Ahhhh Ohhhh Just wanted to jump over him,haha.

Second later he look at the computer and I sort of extremely gently brushes my hand against his arm. He pretended like I didnt do anything just kept working a the computer.

That was the last thing before hug, cry, talk, bye bye...

If I only knew! He said he'd been suspecting that I was guy but he didnt want to confront me. Fuck him if that is true! Just testing to see if I was horny?

 

[shygay19]

.................................edit.

 

[MindBlast]

I can't stop thinking about him. When we met and I thought we "would have sex" he visited me I said hi or something short like that and we went inside. I sat in an armchair with my hand on my cock rubbing it a little glancing at him a second or to at a time and he sat a meter away just STARING me into the eyes!! I don't know what that expression means. Like head bent a little down and no smile just STARING. Sort of like "I'll kill you you bastard"-stare. LOL.

Maybe he got the feeling that something wasn't right with me (although I had not uttered anything stupid) and tried to really see in my eyes what was happening. Should also be noted that I was breathing Ahhhhh Ohhhhh Ahhhh Ohhhh Just wanted to jump over him,haha.

Second later he look at the computer and I sort of extremely gently brushes my hand against his arm. He pretended like I didnt do anything just kept working a the computer.

That was the last thing before hug, cry, talk, bye bye...

If I only knew! He said he'd been suspecting that I was guy but he didnt want to confront me. Fuck him if that is true! Just testing to see if I was horny?

I think that was the 'WTF are you doing?' stare.

He was probably creeped out. Even if I was going to have sex with a guy and we both agreed on it already, I'd be weirded out if he sat down on a chair and started rubbing himself like he was in a cheesy porn movie.

 

[chrisdobro]

I'm one to obsess over guys but I can't quite relate.... or maybe I can (more on that later).

Brace yourself, what I will say may not sound encouraging ... although I will try to put some positive spin on things...

It looks to me that you did not quite push the point home that you are gay to him before. And neither of you ever really took the time to sit down and talk really talk about the core issues and really see and hear them so that they get through. And you misread or read into a lot of things that he did that probably didn't mean anything.

When you were expecting to have sex with him, did he know that you were to have sex ? It sounds to me like he had no clue. About all the hints of being gay you've listed in your first post here, I don't think any one of them brought the point home to him.
Him sleeping at your place can be just a friendly sleep over and have nothing gay about it (to him).
Having his hand on his dick may not mean that much really, he may not have been aware of it. His dick may have been itching and he was scratching it while looking at you thinking of something else entirely.
Him asking if you're home alone does not have to mean he's gay. It can be just straight-guy-like friendship thing where the guys get together and it's much cooler to do so when parents are not around. You could be thinking We're going to have sex and he could be thinking Oh, a cool friend get together.

The only one that carried some weight to me was the exchange after you sent SMS saying you're bisexual. To me though it seems that he was just accepting who you are -- your bisexuality. He was drunk too, so what did he really mean ? Tons of possibilities here. He may have meant "I like you just the way you are, bisexual or not, you are a fine guy to hang around with." Or "I understand that you like me and I don't mind you liking me sexually" or "I understand how you like me and that's okay, and I like you too (as a friend), and that's it" Or even "I'm still straight or I may be confused and coming to terms with my own sexuality and be gay today, straight tomorrow and I'm drunk so don't really hold me accountable to what I say now", or he may have meant something else entirely.

My own example on hints and reading into them was at school. Once in school there was a guy I was lab partnering with. We were sitting by one computer and our knees touched. I was ALL ecstatic by this. I imagined -- our knees are touching and he is NOT pulling away !! And then I was talking to my couselor about it and he said "well, it doesn't mean anything". And I was like ... what do you mean it doesn't mean anything ??? I was pissed. There was definitely something there. I thought.

Now that I'm out of it I can see it much better -- our knees touched. But that in itself did not really mean anything. It can be hard to explain when you want to see things you want to see, however subtle or misleading they are. But I guess the guy just didn't pull away his knee when mine touched his. He may as well have been a girl or an instructor then I wouldn't think much of it. Just because he was a cute guy I thought that that have meant something. But it didn't... even though it did to me. Now, heh, if he'd suck my cock I'd say wow that's definitely something there. People touch knees all the time, but when they have sex, that's when they go past the hint.

You said you're shy in a geeky way. I can relate to that a lot. I have a difficult time communicating with people and sometimes it gets me into trouble or just dosn't give me an advantage I'd like to have.. Once a friend rescued me from a really pissed off guy who was charging at me who thought I did something on purpose to hit him, when I didn't. After my friend had talked to him the pissed off guy came over and shook my hand (!!??). I was speechless. What my friend did was magic! I asked him what the heck did he do with this guy ? My friend said that he just talked to him and explained things like who I am and that I didn't cause any harm and I wouldn't do such a thing. I wish I could do that at will. So he just calmly talked to the guy about pretty seemingly-mandane things that I probably wouldn't think of saying as I was pretty distressed from the guy charging at me. I can relate this to NickCole saying:

Stop beating up yourself for the way you've behaved with him. You weren't the person you want to be but you weren't unkind or deceitful, you were merely uncomfortable.

Had you have another friend who could explain things for you, it'd be much easier. Doing it yourself can be very hard, especially when you are in the middle of it, going through it.

Give yourself a pat on the back for telling him about liking guys in high school. It sounds to me like it was the first real head-on conversation about it. Unless he's blatantly lying to you, he probably didn't have a clue about you being gay until now. All the hints before just didn't clue him in. He may be the rub-my-face-in-it-for-me-to-see-it guy.


So to answer your questions: you are not going crazy, I don't think you are psychotic, but you are distressed and crushed (but not forever). I don't think he is kidding unless he is a cruel psychopath. He may be changing his mind about his sexuality. I myself have a few times when I was coming out.

One thing I do notice is that you don't meet all that often... You categorize meetings by months, which is a hefty distance between seeing each other, though it is my understanding you talk on the Internet more often. I'm not sure what to make of it as I don't have more info.

A course of action I can recommend from how I see it is to
* take the time to calm yourself down until you think more rationally.
* put focus on words and actions rather than on your thoughts, hints and other unsaid things. When you do say things, try saying them clearly straight to the core of the issue. Like "We need to talk. I am serious and please don't blow this off. I am gay, I like you and I want you to be my boyfriend", or whatever it is you want exactly. If you are not sure about what you want, say that too. Don't worry about consequences of your words and don't think about picking the right words. With me in tough situations it helps me to look away from the person's eyes, say what I have to say before I think about it too much, then face the person again and see that they are still there and not running away and are still talking to me. So I hope that some of what I've said helps.

 

[chrisdobro]

oh .. one thing to add. When you met and you expected to have sex, why were you expecting to have it ? I mean did he know about it ? Or did you just want to put a move on him (and surprize him) ? Just curious.

Here is what worked for me when I and my friend were 14-15 [at 19 it's usually harder to get another guy to try something, though money and booze helps I've heard ]:
I put on a straight porn CD I got from somewhere and after a bit of watching it together I said "Let's have sex". ... and then I was begging and pleading "Please please please !!!" till he finally agreed to. We were close friends before it, so that helped.

With another guy I said "Let's dance naked!!" That was a phrase from a popular teen magazine we were reading, so I kept asking him to dance naked, until he finally suggested doing so himself. I asked him really ? He said yes. We went to my room and got naked...

One time though my porn CD approach did not work. I did the same thing, put CD in, watched a bit together, then I offered to play and the guy just wouldn't agree to anything. I even begged (worked before) and took off my shirt and tried really hard till my chest area got red from trying and anxiousness. The guy was probably freaked. He was a bit slow I think, not really, but for some reason he thought I get this way with Anybody after watching porn. (Even that I wanted to I didn't bother countering his point by then as I was exhausted from trying to get him, so I just said forget it, put my shirt back on and let him think whatever.

Another time it didn't work when I chickened out. Again I tried my CD approach with a guy I liked, and then I said "Cool ... they are having sex, it'd be cool to have sex too. Let's have sex... " Then I seriously chickened out and said "but we have no girls here " ... he didn't say anything. I did'nt get to have sex. I chickened out as we were in school, he was starting to hang out with the crowd that was kinda bad and while I think he was a good guy, he was going towards the bad influence and I didn't want to take a chance on bad guys finding out in case anything would leak out. I kicked myself for this for a while.

So .. my point here was to ask for sex. And you may get it. Rubbing yourself may be ambiguous or be misunderstood. I mean if me asking for sex directly and then the guy not getting it and thinking I just get this way after watching porn ... well, then even asking directly may not get your point across. Repeat and expain as neccessary, I guess. Although it's very very hard to do, you do learn it with time.

 

[Alive and Free]

He could still be hidding in the closet.

 

[shygay19]

He could still be hidding in the closet.

If he has ever been in the closet he is (was) still there, I know that much about him.

I just know this guy who is advertising his manliness talking about porn stars, gore (spelling?) movies, weigh lifting and so on and when you "poke around in it" he is the sweetest guy... and I just thought, hey, maybe it's all a show?

Wishful thinking yeah.... but still... I just CANNOT/WANT TO drop it.
Yes, it was just MSN conversation! and Yes! He was drunk! But he told me:
- Yes I do like you. It feels kinda funny to say but I do.
- Are you at your friends place? Arent you afraid to let him see this?
- Hehe, yeah. We're talking some strange stuff.
- When can I meet you?
- It really sucks to say this but in two weeks, thanks to the f**cking army...


Last time (soon 2 weeks, I'll call him this weekend!) it was:
- Hey, did you know I was gay in school?
- What? Never told me.
- I've told you etc....
- It's cool but I'm straight........
Have you told anybody about it???
- No, I don't usually do. But I like "both"... you know what I mean`??
- *laugh* No, not really??
- Bi....
etc...

 

[shygay19]

I think I'll have to assume that he really IS straight although I can't completely wipe out the feeling that he is hiding. Probably IS wishful thinking though.

thanks for support

 

[shygay19]

Please. Seomeone smart. Help me.
Could he be lying? I would just drop dead if I found out that he was and I f*cked it up....

 

[rareboy]

One of the worst habits coming into prevalent use is the recounting of text messages or conversations and then hoping that readers can parse the text and discover the hidden truths behind the words.

If he says he's straight when he knows you're gay, he's just not into you. Leave him alone, move on or you are going to develop a constant habit of obsessive and unhealthy social behaviour.

 

[chrisdobro]

hmmm... you have to go by his actions, not by what he says. So watch what he does.
If he says he's straight though you can't accuse him of lying as this will only put distance between you two.

The issue is not about him lying or not. What is the issue ? What are you after ?
I'm picking up that you like him more than a friend. Tell him that you like him more than a friend. Don't beat him with it, but tell him till it sinks in and you're sure he's got it. It could be, but doesn't have to be all at once and can be done (reminded) over a few conversations if needed. Go increasingly blunt if he's not getting it. Say i.e. "I would like to have you as my boyfriend", if that's what you want. Or even "I know you told me you're straight, but I can't help my feelings and I love you" if you truly do. The point here is for him to get you. Sometimes you need to be blunt as guys don't always get it. He may be out of sync with you or thinking of you as a friend and not being able to shake out of that mode.

And when he gets where you stand, the rest is really up to him. You can't force him to be more than what he is if he doesn't have it. I'm very sad to say this...

 

[chrisdobro]

I have to look at what I wrote and say ..
He told you he's straight. It means he probably is not open to your interest. He's safe-guarding himself before you let him know any further. You telling him you're bi is giving him an open door to let you know if he's interested and to go ahead with any feelings he has for you, since you let him know it's okay to do so. If he's not acting on it, he is unfortunately probably not interested. Ya it's weird that you've told him you like guys and he keeps forgetting it. Or is it "forgetting" it ? If he doesn't have a very good excuse for forgetting it, he's probably avoiding the issue. I wonder why, it's weird. It's his issue of some sort, be it homosexuality in general or denying feelings from you in general. Maybe he's hoping that if he "forgets" about it, you won't bring it up again and he won't have to deal with it.

Some options that may be available to you: realize he's not into you, move over that part and stay good friends. By telling him that you are very much into him you are potentially setting yourself up for a failure and you're setting yourself up for the uncomfortableness to follow. That is, if he's not interested, he may feel awkward that he is not able to return your feelings. If your friendship is really strong you may be able to weather it and laugh about it later when you're over your attraction to him. If not, your friendship may be undermined and even broken by this. He may start avoiding you as he's not interested and you will feel abandoned, upset, confused and distraught. And that will be the worst of it.

So what can you do now ? I would say keep talking to him. He has an opening to talk to you if he has feelings for you, so the ball is in his court now. Decide if you want to stay friends or if it's too much for you to just be friends now. If so, take a break. Do something else. Jack off often. Think of hot guys that get you going. Don't think of him all the time. Give him a break, as in give your mind a break from him. Hope that helps...