The expanding Israel-Hamas war

[rareboy]

Way too long in coming, but Canada, Australia and Britain recognize Palestinian statehood.

https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/palestinian-statehood-israel-gaza-09-21-25

Netanyahu isn't happy about it.

My own opinion is that if countries had done this earlier, instead of allowing Israel to steal a country because of our own guilt for the Holocaust...there might never have been a radicalized Hamas if the recognition had been backed up by actions designed to support Palestinian people and to check terrorism.

So I largely think that now that the inevitability of Palestine literally being wiped off the face of the earth after the genocide is complete in Gaza, the gesture is largely performative virtue signalling. But if it helps save the lives of even some of the people trapped in Gaza from murder by the rogue Israeli state, then it will have been worth something.

 

[rareboy]

Somewhat related....after the US took the unprecedented step of denying Abbas a visa to come to the UN, the UN has voted to allow him to deliver a video address to the chamber.

UN approves video address by Palestine’s Abbas after US visa refusal

UN General Assembly allows Abbas to address world leaders by video after US denies him a visa for travel to New York.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Norri]

Way too long in coming, but Canada, Australia and Britain recognize Palestinian statehood.

https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/palestinian-statehood-israel-gaza-09-21-25

Netanyahu isn't happy about it.

Anything that makes Netanyahu sad is fine by me but I can’t help but notice that the further away you get from Gaza the more support there is for a Palestinian state. Not a single country who would have such a state as a neighbor has joined western countries in supporting such a state and that means something. And it makes me wonder, but for geography, how many of those recognizing countries would be keeping quiet too.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Speaking truth. Of course it was Sanders who would be the first.

The Senate i no longer an august body.

They are no longer the senior statesmen, the voice of reason.

When Mitch McConnell blocked a president's right to nominate a supreme court justice, the nation knew that no degree of gentility or would-be gentry mattered. It was all a sham by corrupt men.

That Sanders has a moral compass is true. Sadly, it doesn't matter any longer. Congress has lost its mandate.

Congress will not recover from their utter failure. When an auto is too badly damaged, it is scrapped.

 

[rareboy]

147 countries now recognize Palestine.

The text of Starmer's speech.

PM statement on the recognition of Palestine: 21 September 2025

Keir Starmer's statement on the Middle East.

www.gov.uk

 

[rareboy]

Still don't believe it is genocide?

 

[Norri]

Still don't believe it is genocide?

I’ve been thinking of the eastern Ukraine and where the money will come from to rebuild it, as long as Russia holds the land they have to rebuild (maybe the Chinese will help) but the idea of Putin having to spend money rebuilding what he tore down and no war dividend for Russian citizens is delicious.

I’ve also been thinking who will rebuild Gaza and as long as who is governing it is unknown no one will contribute a penny then Mr. Somtrich comes along and I’ve come to realize in an effort to depopulate the area Israel won’t let anyone rebuild there and force those living there to survive among rubble and insufficient handouts.

It’s a harsh plan but a plan it is.

 

[KaraBulut]

I’ve been thinking of the eastern Ukraine and where the money will come from to rebuild it, as long as Russia holds the land they have to rebuild (maybe the Chinese will help) but the idea of Putin having to spend money rebuilding what he tore down and no war dividend for Russian citizens is delicious.

Rebuild? I never thought that rebuilding was an objective? When Russia started putting down land mines in the territory, it seemed that the objective was to make it uninhabitable and to have it become a commerce and military corridor to get access to the Black Sea.

I’ve also been thinking who will rebuild Gaza and as long as who is governing it is unknown no one will contribute a penny then Mr. Somtrich comes along and I’ve come to realize in an effort to depopulate the area Israel won’t let anyone rebuild there and force those living there to survive among rubble and insufficient handouts.

There's some Biblical history involved. The "Gaza strip" was never part of the Kingdom of Israel. It was previously Philistia and had an ancient history linked to Greece. There's a lot of mention in the Old Testament of hatred between the Jews and the Philistines (particularly in Judges and Samuel). At one point, I believe the Philistines stole the Ark of the Covenant which inflamed the hatred.

Israel doesn't want to rebuild. They want to take-over and refashion, something that has been on the wish list since ancient times. Most of modern day Israel is low-lying arid desert. Sea-side land is a great place for the desalinization plants that Israel needs to survive. Those pesky 2 million people who used to live there before the place got leveled are just in the way of progress.

 

[Norri]

Rebuild? I never thought that rebuilding was an objective? When Russia started putting down land mines in the territory, it seemed that the objective was to make it uninhabitable and to have it become a commerce and military corridor to get access to the Black Sea.

I doubt Putin’s original objective was to reduce the place to ashes so Russia would have a more convenient road to the Black Sea, and the fact that land with industry on it or resources under is what’s being fought over suggests a different original plan.

There's some Biblical history involved. The "Gaza strip" was never part of the Kingdom of Israel. It was previously Philistia and had an ancient history linked to Greece. There's a lot of mention in the Old Testament of hatred between the Jews and the Philistines (particularly in Judges and Samuel). At one point, I believe the Philistines stole the Ark of the Covenant which inflamed the hatred.

Israel doesn't want to rebuild. They want to take-over and refashion, something that has been on the wish list since ancient times. Most of modern day Israel is low-lying arid desert. Sea-side land is a great place for the desalinization plants that Israel needs to survive. Those pesky 2 million people who used to live there before the place got leveled are just in the way of progress.

Nothing biblical here recent history explains it all but you’re right that Gaza was never part of Israel and the desire to expand for non religious reasons indicates that Israel has matured as a country.

 

[rareboy]

I doubt Putin’s original objective was to reduce the place to ashes so Russia would have a more convenient road to the Black Sea, and the fact that land with industry on it or resources under is what’s being fought over suggests a different original plan.



Nothing biblical here recent history explains it all but you’re right that Gaza was never part of Israel and the desire to expand for non religious reasons indicates that Israel has matured as a country.

Rzzzia doesn't want to rebuild. They want the mineral resources underground in eastern Ukraine.

They want total control of the oil and gas reserves in the Azov.

The Kremlin oligarchs will be perfectly happy leaving eastern Ukraine unpopulated except for the necessary mining camps.

But the Israelis see a lot of expansion and development potential in Gaza. They have said so outright. They have been able to get Trump to buy into it. Jarhead spoke about this in the first Trump term.

They just don't want any palestinians to live on the strip.

 

[KaraBulut]

Rzzzia doesn't want to rebuild. They want the mineral resources underground in eastern Ukraine.

They want total control of the oil and gas reserves in the Azov.

And it's the perfect place to build a pipeline through to the Black Sea.

 

[Norri]

Rzzzia doesn't want to rebuild. They want the mineral resources underground in eastern Ukraine.

They want total control of the oil and gas reserves in the Azov.

I understand that Russia won’t be in any hurry to rebuild because they don’t have the funds to do so and the war has not gone as planned but the idea that they never intended to control and benefit from the land conquered to me is absurd, the industrial land they are fighting over has value which is why they are fighting for it and further I don’t think Putin wants the Russian people to believe he sacrificed over 100,000 Russian soldiers just so he could turn eastern Ukraine (filled with many Russian speakers) into a wasteland.

Had that been his intention all along he didn’t need to send in soldiers just missiles.

 

[KaraBulut]

Had that been his intention all along he didn’t need to send in soldiers just missiles.

That is what Russia typically does. In every conflict, they throw thousands of soldiers and lots of generals at the front line. It's why Russia had enormous population declines in the first half of the 20th century. It's also why they have more women than men and their death rate is higher than their birth rate.

Russian population growth 1925-present

 

[rareboy]

I understand that Russia won’t be in any hurry to rebuild because they don’t have the funds to do so and the war has not gone as planned but the idea that they never intended to control and benefit from the land conquered to me is absurd, the industrial land they are fighting over has value which is why they are fighting for it and further I don’t think Putin wants the Russian people to believe he sacrificed over 100,000 Russian soldiers just so he could turn eastern Ukraine (filled with many Russian speakers) into a wasteland.

Had that been his intention all along he didn’t need to send in soldiers just missiles.

RRRXXXZia still fights wars like they did in the days of the Czars anmd then the Soviet leaders.

To their leaders, life is seen as cheap and this time around they literally used it to get rid of ethnic minorities, prisoners and undesirables in the first two years. This past year as the risk of having to send ethnic Rus from western regions into conflict, they tapped the foreign market and sent tens of thousands of North Koreans and other outsiders to their death.

We are talking about the same thing, but rrrzzzZZia doesn't need or really want the industrial land...they want what is beneath it. From the beginning of the war, they have been sending all the raw materials back into rrrZZia. They literally stripped Azov steel and Mariupol of the steel and sent it back east.

Their plan will be to once again take the lands and give them to western russians in order to once again solidify their claim to the region, like they have done in Crimea and the Donbas region since 2014.

 

[Norri]

Their plan will be to once again take the lands and give them to western russians in order to once again solidify their claim to the region, like they have done in Crimea and the Donbas region since 2014.

If they are going to settle the land with Russians in order to solidify their claim they will need to rebuild because unlike the Crimea or the Donbas eastern Ukraine needs to be spruced up before anyone would consider moving there but you claim they have no intention of rebuilding.

And in the days of the Czars they fought over land they wanted to expand the empire never to destroy it as an end in itself.

 

[Norri]

That is what Russia typically does. In every conflict, they throw thousands of soldiers and lots of generals at the front line. It's why Russia had enormous population declines in the first half of the 20th century. It's also why they have more women than men and their death rate is higher than their birth rate.

Russian population growth 1925-present
View attachment 3277070

True enough and without their willingness to do so WW2 might have ended differently but they send those men into battle to achieve a goal and that goal is more then wanton destruction.

And their death rate being higher than their birth rate has less to do with how they fight wars than a lack of baby production and should Trump achieve his goal of zero immigration that’s in our near future too.

 

[KaraBulut]

...And their death rate being higher than their birth rate has less to do with how they fight wars than a lack of baby production...

In this case, the birth rate is the symptom, not the cause.

The loss of a large number of men in the World Wars had generational impacts. Fewer men, fewer fathers, fewer children. Fewer children, then 20 to 40 years later, you have a smaller pool of women of child-bearing age.

The other factor is that Russia stopped paying newborn incentive payments for children after the first child. When the children from what should have been the "baby boom" post World War years were getting married and having children of their own, Russia stopped giving financial incentives for families to have multiple children.

Now, the Ukrainian War is causing more losses of men who are in the prime years of their life- either by death during conflict or by men fleeing the country to avoid the draft. The economy also sucks and during periods of economic downturn, families have fewer children.

The demography plays out over generations. Russia now has more women who are over 40 than women under 40, which is a big part of why their death rate exceeds their birth rate.


Another demographic time-bomb is playing out in Israel. The birthrate for Haredi Jews in Israel is 6.1 children per Haredi woman. Currently, the ultraorthodox population of Israel is about 12%. In a generation, it will double, making Israel a more conservative, nationalistic population. This doesn't bode well for hopes of a two state solution in Israel, as it is the ultraorthodox members of Netanyahu's coalition that have been pushing to murder or deport Palestinians from Gaza.

 

[rareboy]

If they are going to settle the land with Russians in order to solidify their claim they will need to rebuild because unlike the Crimea or the Donbas eastern Ukraine needs to be spruced up before anyone would consider moving there but you claim they have no intention of rebuilding.

And in the days of the Czars they fought over land they wanted to expand the empire never to destroy it as an end in itself.

I mean the oligarchs. And they don't need stuff on top of the land. Only what's in it.

The defensive lines and trenches and minefields will all remain. A swath of the occupied lands along the front would remain a permanent no-man's zone on the surface because the stuff they want is underneath...or along the Azov and Black Sea coast.

 

[rareboy]

"The vast majority of officials and diplomats in the UN General Assembly Hall appeared to walk out as Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu took the stage for his address on Friday."

 

[Norri]

In this case, the birth rate is the symptom, not the cause.

The loss of a large number of men in the World Wars had generational impacts. Fewer men, fewer fathers, fewer children. Fewer children, then 20 to 40 years later, you have a smaller pool of women of child-bearing age.

The other factor is that Russia stopped paying newborn incentive payments for children after the first child. When the children from what should have been the "baby boom" post World War years were getting married and having children of their own, Russia stopped giving financial incentives for families to have multiple children.

Now, the Ukrainian War is causing more losses of men who are in the prime years of their life- either by death during conflict or by men fleeing the country to avoid the draft. The economy also sucks and during periods of economic downturn, families have fewer children.

The demography plays out over generations. Russia now has more women who are over 40 than women under 40, which is a big part of why their death rate exceeds their birth rate.


Another demographic time-bomb is playing out in Israel. The birthrate for Haredi Jews in Israel is 6.1 children per Haredi woman. Currently, the ultraorthodox population of Israel is about 12%. In a generation, it will double, making Israel a more conservative, nationalistic population. This doesn't bode well for hopes of a two state solution in Israel, as it is the ultraorthodox members of Netanyahu's coalition that have been pushing to murder or deport Palestinians from Gaza.

Since the Ukraine was part of the USSR during WW2 isn’t everything you said about Russia also true of the Ukraine? Their demographics are remarkably similar and the Ukraine still cuts off its draft age at 25 so clearly they are concerned with their future population.
And I doubt Russia is the only country with more women over 40 than under……heck the Ukraine is probably one of them……..and the Chinese too.