The historicity of Jesus Christ

[ludolfo]

on order to cut the crap and get right down to the realll nitty gritty now, you have to see deep and bigger picture. This will save you wasting years of your life worrying over none-sense

OK, I also cannot stand that Zeitgeist film and its overall message, BUT the part about how the whole Jesus myth is based on astrology is in big part right. What they miss out is the crucial mushroom connection. I will try and bring this together in summary, but of course this deserves study, reading the right books etc, and getting it

OK, understand that the Christian myth belongs to solar mythology where the sun/solar is deified. THIS myth suppressed and/or subverted the much more ancient lunar based mythos of the Great Mother/Goddess

See, the pushers OF the solar mythology made sure to impose their myth even onto the sun, stars, etc so as to create an overall matrix of control, of the person, body and mind, and nature. But it is not 'reality' but their interpretation we are made to think of as THE reality. This is its purpose

Simultaneously therefore they interpreted the fungi also as that mythos. hence they assumed that the mind-changing fungi descended (they were ignorant of microscopic spores) into nature/matter from the 'spirit', and for the Christians (the initiated) the psychoactive fungi was 'God'/'his Son' made flesh

In summary, they, like other mythmakers west AND east personified these psychedelic mushrooms as 'gods' and 'Gods', and fashioned their mythic tales around them, making sure to hide the identity of their main source of inspiration

When you begin to understand this you then look into HOW they interpreted their experience. because of a prexistenct assumption of a duality between 'nature' and 'spirit' this would affect how they viewed their experience. NOT as an ecstatic communion with nature, but as some kind of 'channeled' contact with their transcendent 'God'. hence their desire to finally escape nature and/or it becomes 'spiritualized' in some promised --by their prophets and God--in the future

 

[kallipolis]

^On the other hand Jesus of Nazareth could well have been/be who his contemporaries say he was/is.

 

[Kulindahr]

on order to cut the crap and get right down to the realll nitty gritty now, you have to see deep and bigger picture. This will save you wasting years of your life worrying over none-sense

OK, I also cannot stand that Zeitgeist film and its overall message, BUT the part about how the whole Jesus myth is based on astrology is in big part right. What they miss out is the crucial mushroom connection. I will try and bring this together in summary, but of course this deserves study, reading the right books etc, and getting it

OK, understand that the Christian myth belongs to solar mythology where the sun/solar is deified. THIS myth suppressed and/or subverted the much more ancient lunar based mythos of the Great Mother/Goddess

See, the pushers OF the solar mythology made sure to impose their myth even onto the sun, stars, etc so as to create an overall matrix of control, of the person, body and mind, and nature. But it is not 'reality' but their interpretation we are made to think of as THE reality. This is its purpose

Simultaneously therefore they interpreted the fungi also as that mythos. hence they assumed that the mind-changing fungi descended (they were ignorant of microscopic spores) into nature/matter from the 'spirit', and for the Christians (the initiated) the psychoactive fungi was 'God'/'his Son' made flesh

In summary, they, like other mythmakers west AND east personified these psychedelic mushrooms as 'gods' and 'Gods', and fashioned their mythic tales around them, making sure to hide the identity of their main source of inspiration

When you begin to understand this you then look into HOW they interpreted their experience. because of a prexistenct assumption of a duality between 'nature' and 'spirit' this would affect how they viewed their experience. NOT as an ecstatic communion with nature, but as some kind of 'channeled' contact with their transcendent 'God'. hence their desire to finally escape nature and/or it becomes 'spiritualized' in some promised --by their prophets and God--in the future

Now that we've heard the voice of charlatanism, back to serious discussion.

 

[Mariatenebre]

on order to cut the crap and get right down to the realll nitty gritty now, you have to see deep and bigger picture. This will save you wasting years of your life worrying over none-sense

OK, I also cannot stand that Zeitgeist film and its overall message, BUT the part about how the whole Jesus myth is based on astrology is in big part right. What they miss out is the crucial mushroom connection. I will try and bring this together in summary, but of course this deserves study, reading the right books etc, and getting it

OK, understand that the Christian myth belongs to solar mythology where the sun/solar is deified. THIS myth suppressed and/or subverted the much more ancient lunar based mythos of the Great Mother/Goddess

See, the pushers OF the solar mythology made sure to impose their myth even onto the sun, stars, etc so as to create an overall matrix of control, of the person, body and mind, and nature. But it is not 'reality' but their interpretation we are made to think of as THE reality. This is its purpose

Simultaneously therefore they interpreted the fungi also as that mythos. hence they assumed that the mind-changing fungi descended (they were ignorant of microscopic spores) into nature/matter from the 'spirit', and for the Christians (the initiated) the psychoactive fungi was 'God'/'his Son' made flesh

In summary, they, like other mythmakers west AND east personified these psychedelic mushrooms as 'gods' and 'Gods', and fashioned their mythic tales around them, making sure to hide the identity of their main source of inspiration

When you begin to understand this you then look into HOW they interpreted their experience. because of a prexistenct assumption of a duality between 'nature' and 'spirit' this would affect how they viewed their experience. NOT as an ecstatic communion with nature, but as some kind of 'channeled' contact with their transcendent 'God'. hence their desire to finally escape nature and/or it becomes 'spiritualized' in some promised --by their prophets and God--in the future

Actually the oldest form of religion is not of Lunar Goddesses but Solar Goddesses who were usually replaced in power by say deities of Thunder. In few civilizations this did not happen such as in Japan where Amaterasu reigns supreme however she still had troubles with her brother Susanoo.

 

[TX-Beau]

Actually the oldest form of religion is not of Lunar Goddesses but Solar Goddesses who were usually replaced in power by say deities of Thunder. In few civilizations this did not happen such as in Japan where Amaterasu reigns supreme however she still had troubles with her brother Susanoo.

How do you know what the oldest "form of religion" is?

 

[ludolfo]

Now that we've heard the voice of charlatanism, back to serious discussion.

Now we see trolling let us get rid of you? Or is it allowed in this forum?

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows some other website on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into ...

It is also a no flame zone. So why can YOU get away with it?

there is a little mystery for you to solve ey?

 

[ludolfo]

Actually the oldest form of religion is not of Lunar Goddesses but Solar Goddesses who were usually replaced in power by say deities of Thunder. In few civilizations this did not happen such as in Japan where Amaterasu reigns supreme however she still had troubles with her brother Susanoo.

I cannot in all honesty take any thing you say seriously, so lack of response does not mean anything supportive

 

[Kulindahr]

Now we see trolling let us get rid of you? Or is it allowed in this forum?


It is also a no flame zone. So why can YOU get away with it?

there is a little mystery for you to solve ey?

An objective identification of your proclamations from a scholarly point of view is not trolling, it is information. You regularly make pronouncements that are not at all supported by anyone except those engaged in conspiracy-theory thinking (something that is also objectively defineable), and a consistent adherence to such positions contrary to everything that is known, and attempts to persuade others of their truth, is objectively known as charlatanism.

 

[ludolfo]

An objective identification of your proclamations from a scholarly point of view is not trolling, it is information. You regularly make pronouncements that are not at all supported by anyone except those engaged in conspiracy-theory thinking (something that is also objectively defineable), and a consistent adherence to such positions contrary to everything that is known, and attempts to persuade others of their truth, is objectively known as charlatanism.

He typed without any scholarly evidence to support his argument whatsoever...AND, mispelt
#defineable

 

[ElmosToe]

Now, why don't people on this board ever have a discussion like this about Muhammad or Islam?

interesting.

 

[Jacquemar]

I HIGHLY recommend the essay "The Hero Pattern and the Life of Jesus" by Alan Dundes.

 

[kallipolis]

Now, why don't people on this board ever have a discussion like this about Muhammad or Islam?

interesting.

Hot Topics has a daily outpouring of hatred for everything Muslim.

I am surprised that you have overlooked this fact of life.

 

[kallipolis]

I HIGHLY recommend the essay "The Hero Pattern and the Life of Jesus" by Alan Dundes.

The hero myth has been "done" by countless authors over many centuries.

I am certain that Alan Dundes has inspired many to reinforce their atheistic beliefs.

Homer does a better job with Odysseus...and valiantly elects to speak of the divine (Athina as Wisdom) inspiring his hero on his journey of a life time.

 

[joesman]

The followers of Jesus believed that he would come a second time after the initial appearance after the crucificion. He supposedly told them that he would come back. Unfortunately for them, they thought it would be soon so they waited while being hunted and persecuted by Jews and Romans. Many were disheartened. Many were imprisoned for periods of time. Still Jesus did not come. So what was left but to spread the word. I believe Paul was the man most responsible for traveling to areas of the known world and spreading the news. How hard would it be to convince people that a saviour was coming to deliver them from their sins and their horrible lives. Easy to believe if your lot in life is suffering and misery. If you convince people in one place and someone there carries the torch for them, and the next city/town to the next goes Paul to those who are in dire straits in their lives. It blossoms into a world wide religion. Even as the leaders of sects carried out horrendous acts of violence against their own people. The crusades. The popes.


The words of Jesus carry a remarkable message that has been used to hurt, demean and murder people in his name. If he did exist and if he was a diety his teachings have been sorely abused for centuries and still to this day.

 

[Kulindahr]

The followers of Jesus believed that he would come a second time after the initial appearance after the crucificion. He supposedly told them that he would come back. Unfortunately for them, they thought it would be soon so they waited while being hunted and persecuted by Jews and Romans. Many were disheartened. Many were imprisoned for periods of time. Still Jesus did not come. So what was left but to spread the word. I believe Paul was the man most responsible for traveling to areas of the known world and spreading the news. How hard would it be to convince people that a saviour was coming to deliver them from their sins and their horrible lives. Easy to believe if your lot in life is suffering and misery. If you convince people in one place and someone there carries the torch for them, and the next city/town to the next goes Paul to those who are in dire straits in their lives. It blossoms into a world wide religion. Even as the leaders of sects carried out horrendous acts of violence against their own people. The crusades. The popes.


The words of Jesus carry a remarkable message that has been used to hurt, demean and murder people in his name. If he did exist and if he was a diety his teachings have been sorely abused for centuries and still to this day.

The moment you have a power structure interested in perpetuating itself, any teaching not only can but will be corrupted. This is likely a great reason that Judaism has become such a religion of peace: until 1948, there was no power structure of any kind to maintain, and even since then the state of Israel has been more interested in survival than anything else, so it has not needed any Jewish theology to support its policies. In Christianity, OTOH, the moment Constantine linked government with religion, keeping the resultant power and privilege became a significant motivation, and with the collapse of the western Roman Empire and the replacement of civil authority with church bureaucracy, the tendency metastasized until it dominated. The religious Right in the U.S. inherited Rome's lust for power, the epitome of that inheritance being found in the Puritans who fled England not to achieve religious freedom but religious dominance, and their descendants continue that goal today. Thus just as Rome twisted Jesus' words (or ignored them), so too the Religious Right today continues.

The result is that with the expectation of Jesus' return, claimants to follow Him these days often vigorously act precisely opposite to what He taught, fulfilling one of His predictions, namely that followers of His would call evil good and call good evil.

 

[kallipolis]

The words of Jesus carry a remarkable message that has been used to hurt, demean and murder people in his name. If he did exist and if he was a diety his teachings have been sorely abused for centuries and still to this day.

Conversely very many of Jesus' followers over the centuries have clothed the naked, sheltered the homeless, and fed the hungry..and continue to do so....

Jesus' words are remarkable for they invite each of us to love our neighbour, as our self.

Matthew 22:36-40New International Version (NIV)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

[Benvolio]

Christian countries have developed the humanitarian values which atheists cherish even as they demonize the Christians and Christian culture.

 

[kallipolis]

Christianity does not hold a monopoly on humanitarian values, nor does Christianity monopolise God's love for all human life.

Serving the common good by sacrificing something of oneself, to serve others is love of ones neighbour.

 

[Benvolio]

Christianity does not hold a monopoly on humanitarian values, nor does Christianity monopolise God's love for all human life.

Serving the common good by sacrificing something of oneself, to serve others is love of ones neighbour.

Nevertheless the atheists attacking Christianity learned their values from Christianity.

 

[Mariatenebre]

Nevertheless the atheists attacking Christianity learned their values from Christianity.

First of all Christian countries did not develop humanitarian values. When Christianity ruled the West non Christian religion's were persecuted as well heretics, apostates etc. Women were viciously subjugated and attacked for being witches. Homosexuals were executed due to the religion's sodomy laws etc. It was only due to the Enlightenment which was a revival of the values of Greece and Rome did this change. The first amendment of the Constitution outright contradicts the first commandment.