The lies begin....

[Kulindahr]

Guns and bullets are taxed...


and Telstra is from Australia, they suffer less paranoia than here.

They also have very few animals to shoot...

I personally don't think that this discussion should even be in the presidential agenda for a while.

Regardless of his position, this is not what is needed right now.

Unfortunately, led by the predictable McCarthy, consponsors are gleefully lining up for a bill.

Why can't we have any Democrats like HHH who are original-style patriots any more?

 

[letme]

The only crimes committed with guns are by criminals. Had they not had guns, knives would be used.

Yes gun crimes are high,so is fraud ,ID Theft ,Drunk Driving ,Drug Traffic . Rape etc..................

No law or tax or ban will change the facts.

Ban guns ..no problem. Got a Bic pen ,Bic Lighter and a BB.? Ya got a gun ,home-made and not taxed .

BTW glad you are not a PETA person and like meat

 

[andysayshi]

In Telstra's defense, it's very hard to understand the gun culture of the US from an Australian perspective. We are a geographically similar country, and have a much greater land mass-per person ratio, and there are plenty of animals to shoot (but few that are inherently dangerous to humans). But we have very low gun ownership and very low gun crime, particularly in urban areas.

From an Australian viewpoint, and as someone who grew up with guns in rural areas, I cannot pretend to understand the US gun lobby. I lived in the US for a while and it was the only time in my life I've truly feared guns.

But I'm not American, and I don't pretend to understand that side of the culture. I don't see it as my business to change the minds of those who believe otherwise - no doubt they are equally confused by my stance. I simply don't understand how a modern and civilized nation reconciles the fact that 30,000 people die from gun deaths each year.

Whatever the causes and solutions, it seems the US is doing SOMETHING wrong to be losing so many lives each year.

 

[Telstra]

In Telstra's defense, it's very hard to understand the gun culture of the US from an Australian perspective. We are a geographically similar country, and have a much greater land mass-per person ratio, and there are plenty of animals to shoot (but few that are inherently dangerous to humans). But we have very low gun ownership and very low gun crime, particularly in urban areas.

From an Australian viewpoint, and as someone who grew up with guns in rural areas, I cannot pretend to understand the US gun lobby. I lived in the US for a while and it was the only time in my life I've truly feared guns.

But I'm not American, and I don't pretend to understand that side of the culture. I don't see it as my business to change the minds of those who believe otherwise - no doubt they are equally confused by my stance. I simply don't understand how a modern and civilized nation reconciles the fact that 30,000 people die from gun deaths each year.

Whatever the causes and solutions, it seems the US is doing SOMETHING wrong to be losing so many lives each year.

after watching Michael Moores documentary, i think i know the gun culture in the America. Yeah 30,000 death is way too much. It sounds like war death to me.

When fighting a criminal with a knife, at least you can defend yourself with rocks, woods, sticks, pots and pans, chairs ... etc but you can't defend yourself when criminal has a gun.

 

[Kulindahr]

But I'm not American, and I don't pretend to understand that side of the culture. I don't see it as my business to change the minds of those who believe otherwise - no doubt they are equally confused by my stance. I simply don't understand how a modern and civilized nation reconciles the fact that 30,000 people die from gun deaths each year.

Whatever the causes and solutions, it seems the US is doing SOMETHING wrong to be losing so many lives each year.

It's always been an odd thing, that in the cities people dislike guns -- and there is significant gun violence. Even in the time of the "Wild wild west", the gun gun violence per capita was higher in the cities, where there were a lot fewer guns per capita.

I think that in the past it came from a frontier/survivalist mentality, the sort that was constantly alert for "Injuns" and bears and whatever. But somewhere we also picked up the "feudin'" thing, which came from somewhere in Europe and mutated into something more virulent here.

But today's violence is descended from that of Prohibition, in two ways: criminals found they could shoot up each other, and neighborhoods, and the police were often impotent to deal with it, and that generated a "macho" ideal that is self-feeding and has been passed down; but also that too many ordinary citizens became cowards, so afraid of guns that they wanted nothing to do with them. So you have criminals who think that toting guns makes them "men", and citizens who may as well be doormats who by so being actually feed the ego of the violent criminal.

That's borne out in that when criminals know there are guns around, they keep low. No felon with a mind at all will dare a dwelling with an NRA or FOP (Fraternal Order of Police) decal on the door; knowledgeable criminals encountering a JPFO (Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership) decal will avoid the entire block. And in cities where shall-issue laws have been passed, meaning that when a non-felon passes a course he/she must be issued a permit/license to carry a concealed weapon, violent crime goes down all over (contrary to some belief, not all crime drops; criminals just switch to varieties where they aren't likely to encounter criminals). There's even a store chain -- I forget the name -- which after several robberies of its stores announced publicly that they were not only changing their policy to allow employees to be armed, but were recommending they be armed, and suddenly their stores weren't being attacked any more.

But the biggest cause of violent crime in the U.S. is the so-called "War On Drugs", which is in reality Prohibition II -- and as any economist can tell you, it doesn't matter what the commodity is, if you ban it, a lucrative and violent black market will spring up to supply it. By the latest estimates I've seen, those 30,000 gun deaths each year would drop to under 5,000 (as low as 2,000 by some estimates... which I don't particularly believe) if the "War On Drugs" were ended.

after watching Michael Moores documentary, i think i know the gun culture in the America. Yeah 30,000 death is way too much. It sounds like war death to me.

When fighting a criminal with a knife, at least you can defend yourself with rocks, woods, sticks, pots and pans, chairs ... etc but you can't defend yourself when criminal has a gun.

If you learned about it from Michael Moore, then you don't know it -- there's a good deal of fiction and spin in his "documentary".

BTW, if the criminal knows what he's doing with a knife, and you pick up any of those items save the chair, you've just about signed your own death warrant, because for someone not trained in hand-to-hand combat, the length of survival against someone with a knife and trained in its use is less than a minute. The chair is iffy -- if you can wield it handily, it just may discourage the guy, because if you stay calm he's going to have problems getting to you.

But if you show a gun, and look in the least like you will use it, nine times out of ten your attacker or intruder will flee, unless the intruder also has a gun and has already decided to kill you.
And if you're really lucky, they'll take off their own belts and tie themselves up at your orders (really happened!).

I AM American and I don't understand it. I grew up in a hunting family, but my dad had no use for the NRA, even though he's a staunch Republican.

If you get a chance to visit the US, see if you can find a gun show in whatever area you're in. Most of the folks are pretty normal, but there's usually a goodly percentage of wild-eyed crazies who believe that there should be no limits on armor-piercing assault rifles and the like.

Why are these people allowed to breed?

Anyone who thinks they can buy an "armor-piercing assault rifle" at a gun show is definitely a crazy! You can't buy an assault rifle at a gun show in the first place; there's too much paperwork involved for a dealer to bother bringing any, except perhaps for display.

Why are they allowed to breed? They would ask the same thing about Ivy League-educated liberals who think the government should take care of everyone.
The odd thing is that there really weren't any such crazies until firearms became the object of persecution in the U.S. Just as the assault on free speech back in the early days of rock 'n roll produced some real crazies in its defense, so the assault on this intrinsic freedom is producing some real crazies. And most of the people I've seen at gun shows look at them a bit askance as well -- in fact a wanted felon got arrested as the result of some people looking askance at some crazies at a gun show I attended once: said crazy got noticed, a friend of the "noticer" thought the face was familiar, a check on a dealer's computer there at the show turned up a possible match, a guy who'd seen him leave got the license number, and cops were called, and they tracked him down.

At any rate, the ancestors of those crazies were the ones who provided the U.S. with the world's best sharpshooters in World War II, kids who grew up shooting as soon as they could walk who became soldiers who calmly kept picking off enemies while the tanks advanced on them. That fine edge of sanity is very, very useful to a society with a serious enemy -- and the fact that in WW II we had ready-made snipers, while today every army in the world has to train them is one very good argument for not tampering with the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, as well as one of the things the NRA was founded to actually do -- as opposed to the political crap it finds itself entangled in as idiots try to neuter one of our basic rights.

 

[Telstra]

Kulindahr, i'm assuming the criminal has a knife only.

You will have a better chance of fighting back. Let say a broom stick, very effective. You can use it as a spear and stab someone with the broom stick, long reach jab & jab with the stick.

 

[Kulindahr]

Kulindahr, i'm assuming the criminal has a knife only.

You will have a better chance of fighting back. Let say a broom stick, very effective. You can use it as a spear and stab someone with the broom stick, long reach jab & jab with the stick.

You and me, maybe.

The typical urban dweller, given a broomstick and faced with a guy with a knife attacking, will scream and lose the broomstick.
I'd raather have a mop with bleach on it; it's too easy to bob and duck and get inside the reach of a broomstick, but once let me get bleach in the guy's eyes....

Any item shorter than the knife-man's arm is useless. And even a broomstick, unless you have a grasp of how to wield it as a staff for blocking gripped with both hands, isn't that effective.

I prefer my .357: if someone means to injure me, I'd rather make sure he doesn't get close enough for me to see what color his eyes are.

 

[Telstra]

You and me, maybe.

The typical urban dweller, given a broomstick and faced with a guy with a knife attacking, will scream and lose the broomstick.
I'd raather have a mop with bleach on it; it's too easy to bob and duck and get inside the reach of a broomstick, but once let me get bleach in the guy's eyes....

Any item shorter than the knife-man's arm is useless. And even a broomstick, unless you have a grasp of how to wield it as a staff for blocking gripped with both hands, isn't that effective.

I prefer my .357: if someone means to injure me, I'd rather make sure he doesn't get close enough for me to see what color his eyes are.

talking about broom stick.
i would hit the hands until he no longer hold the knife. Now i can poke his man hood for fun.

 

[Shafted]

I don't see the fun had in shooting defenseless animals. I just don't get it. People like to call it sport, but is it really sport if the animals don't have guns, too?

 

[smelter]

The argument regarding a criminal only having a knife is moot. The fact here in the US is that the criminal class has a LOT of guns, and there are a lot of guns just floating around. The only people disarmed by anti-gun laws are law-abiding citizens, who aren't the problem.

It gets closer to home IC when they start robbing Applebee restaurants at gunpoint! The suspect is obviously str8 .... no self respecting gay man would ever be seen in public wearing a brown beanie with a maroon shirt and blue pants!

Composite drawing of Applebee's robbery suspect

Witnesses described the gunman as being about 5 feet 11 inches tall and 210 pounds with brown hair, a full brown beard and a round face. He was about 20 to 25 years old. He was wearing a maroon fleece shirt, blue fleece pants and a brown beanie.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/newsupdates/story/563665.html

 

[Raincoat Massacre]

HE WANTS TO TAKE OUR AUTOMATIC WEAPONS AWAY!?!?!?! OH MY GOD HOW WILL WE HUNT FOR FOOD!?!?!?!

Why the fuck do any of you need an automatic weapon? Seriously? Please tell me when one would be needed in any hunting/self defense situation where any other gun would suffice...

You can't hunt with an M16. And I'm pretty sure a 9MM would stop a burglar in his tracks when used correctly.

I understand it is our right to own and posess guns but people there really needs to be some kind of medium. My dad owns well over thirty guns. Why? I really don't understand why he would ever need that many guns. For him, yes it is a hobby and huge part of his life to hunt and shoot for sport. But sometimes people go a little to far and abuse the second amendment. Owning guns is one thing, but stockpiling them like a mad man is another. If Obama wants to restrict automatic weapons good for him. I don't own one, I don't need one, and neither do the people kiling one another with them.

 

[White Eagle]

It gets closer to home IC when they start robbing Applebee restaurants at gunpoint! The suspect is obviously str8 .... no self respecting gay man would ever be seen in public wearing a brown beanie with a maroon shirt and blue pants!

At 5'11" and 210 I'm surprised he didn't rob the kitchen!!


But, getting back to on topic:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-1022

Status:
Occurred: Introduced Feb 13, 2007
Not Yet Occurred: Reported by Committee -
Not Yet Occurred: Voted on in House -
Not Yet Occurred: Voted on in Senate -
Not Yet Occurred: Signed by President -

The bill was introduced 2/13/07 and has gone nowhere.