The misconception of national and racial identification.

[Harke the Boeotarch]

The discussion of what terms to use for ethnic minorities is all about the superficial discussion about using the appropriate terms and neatly circumvents all real issues.

The only time when a term is inconvenient is when a term doesn't actually reflect what it means; e.g. using "negro" or "black" that seems to imply being a thoroughbred of African descent for someone who is more accurately called a "mulatto".

 

[treanir]

FYI: I've seen Irish-American and Italian-American used quite often.

I can see the value of 'African-American' as a word to circumvent racially-laden terms that were used before that. In this sense, the whole has become more than the sum of its parts. Taken apart, though, I can see the problems, especially when it's used by people whose ancestors go back to the US for generation after generation.

This all reminds me of a decription of America that's used in the very first scene of Angels in America:
the melting pot where nothing melted

 

[Kulindahr]

Stop referring to white people as Caucasians, and then you can whine about black people being called African-Americans. Stupid pc bullshit is stupid pc bullshit - across the board.

Invalid comparison: "Caucasian" is a term of scientific designation (however much wrangled over these days), while "African-American" is a political term.

The former comes from a system which divided the human race into Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongoloid.... rather broad and imprecise, but at least scientific. The latter arises from a desire to keep alive the very divisions MLK sought to overturn.

The latter is also very imprecise and misleading, as recognized even a couple of centuries ago, when some scientists noted that there was no such thing as an "African race"; definite distinctions between groups of peoples on the continent made that impossible to sustain.

So "African-American" is "stupid pc bullshit", but "Caucasian" isn't -- although I'll agree with you that having to constantly identify ourselves by such categories is most certainly "pc bullshit".




I tend to mark "other" and write in "Western Terran", indicating that all my bloodlines come from what we refer to as "Western Civilization" and/or the Western hemisphere (Norse, Swiss, Anglo, Amerind....).

 

[MisterMajestic]

For a long time I have wondered why many black people born in the USA are reffered as "African-American". I understand a lot of it comes from pride of the past, but it is silly and needs to die. Move on.

Technically they are not African. African is not a race, it is a nationality.
It is a term far too accepted to use despite its use for those who do not apply to it. Stop it.

I hope in the near future that people would stop using the infamous "African-American" nonsense. Its just incorrect.

Regardless of what I call myself..Black, African American or whatever makes me a happier Tax paying citizen..All I ask is that you Give me the same Respect that I Give you..I'm not going to judge you on your Bad taste in clothing and I don't want you to judge me because of the kind of car i drive...

Let's just treat each other like Human beings and everything else will be alright...Cedmln, people of all walks of life are losing their Homes & Jobs by the millions, it must be nice that your Biggest issue today is the term "African American"....

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

I hope in the near future that people would stop using the infamous "African-American" nonsense. Its just incorrect.

Not offering a reasonable alternative makes this thread a massive Fail.

And you must be poorly traveled if you've never heard "Italian-American" or "Greek-American" or "Jewish-American."

You tried girl, you tried.

 

[Kulindahr]

Let's just treat each other like Human beings and everything else will be alright...Cedmln, people of all walks of life are losing their Homes & Jobs by the millions, it must be nice that your Biggest issue today is the term "African American"....

Who said it's his "Biggest"?

It may just be one he felt irritated about.

Heck, I've started threads just to see if people say what I think they will...

 

[kallipolis]

Who said it's his "Biggest"?

It may just be one he felt irritated about.

Heck, I've started threads just to see if people say what I think they will...

You are an excellent angler,

 

[Kulindahr]

Not offering a reasonable alternative makes this thread a massive Fail.

I don't see that.
It sounds like you are saying that recognizing and celebrating one's ethnic background is a bad thing. On the contrary, the mix of heritages is one of the things that enriches places like the USA. People of different backgrounds can work, create, build, live together and treat one another as equals, yet appreciate the different heritages.

And when did MLK seek to have all Americans become one monotonous homogeneous group without appreciation for their diverse backgrounds??

An alternative is "American".

That's what MLK said in his Dream speech -- that we should all be just Americans. That's what the Constitution says, too: equality before the law -- so the government shouldn't ever even be asking.

A person can celebrate anything he wishes, but to demand that everyone hew to a list of acceptable terminology is divisive -- and that's the point here.



Hey -- I read recently that they discovered the mutation that made Caucasians light in skin color. Do you think that now it can be 'cured'?

 

[kallipolis]

An alternative is "American".

That's what MLK said in his Dream speech -- that we should all be just Americans. That's what the Constitution says, too: equality before the law -- so the government shouldn't ever even be asking.

A person can celebrate anything he wishes, but to demand that everyone hew to a list of acceptable terminology is divisive -- and that's the point here.



Hey -- I read recently that they discovered the mutation that made Caucasians light in skin color. Do you think that now it can be 'cured'?

Body builders and porn stars are able to achieve this cure with a spray can.

 

[Kulindahr]

You are an excellent angler,

I wish thaqt were so with the real thing.



All the fishies, swimming in the sea,
but not a one will come to me
provide for me a meal that's free --
free-swimming fishies, all in the sea.

 

[kallipolis]

Rupert Brooke (1887-1915)

Heaven

1Fish (fly-replete, in depth of June,
2Dawdling away their wat'ry noon)
3Ponder deep wisdom, dark or clear,
4Each secret fishy hope or fear.
5Fish say, they have their Stream and Pond;
6But is there anything Beyond?
7This life cannot be All, they swear,
8For how unpleasant, if it were!
9One may not doubt that, somehow, Good
10Shall come of Water and of Mud;
11And, sure, the reverent eye must see
12A Purpose in Liquidity.
13We darkly know, by Faith we cry,
14The future is not Wholly Dry.
15Mud unto mud! -- Death eddies near --
16Not here the appointed End, not here!
17But somewhere, beyond Space and Time.
18Is wetter water, slimier slime!
19And there (they trust) there swimmeth One
20Who swam ere rivers were begun,
21Immense, of fishy form and mind,
22Squamous, omnipotent, and kind;
23And under that Almighty Fin,
24The littlest fish may enter in.
25Oh! never fly conceals a hook,
26Fish say, in the Eternal Brook,
27But more than mundane weeds are there,
28And mud, celestially fair;
29Fat caterpillars drift around,
30And Paradisal grubs are found;
31Unfading moths, immortal flies,
32And the worm that never dies.
33And in that Heaven of all their wish,
34There shall be no more land, say fish.

 

[BabiGayPimp]

The OP is absolutely correct regarding the inaccuracy and illogic of suddenly and arbitrarily deciding to call negroid individuals of, probable, African descent "African Americans," since few are citizens of any African countries and all human beings are of African descent, but in order for people to communicate is a meaningful way, we must agree upon operational definitions of persons, places, and things.

So long as we know what we are talking about. We all know "white" people aren't really white and "Just Us Boys" is full of grown men, not boys. But we can operate with with these terms and definitions, so long as we understand the context.

Insisting upon technical accuracy in the use of everyday language could be an unwinning enterprise.

 

[theFallenGod]

See what I find amusing is that up here.. Black people are referred to as black people... When we refer to African-Canadians it is meant as a person who immigrated from an African nation and is now a Canadian. Up here by about the 3rd generation you are no longer Such-and-such-Canadian... you are just plain Canadian.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

See what I find amusing is that up here.. Black people are referred to as black people... When we refer to African-Canadians it is meant as a person who immigrated from an African nation and is now a Canadian. Up here by about the 3rd generation you are no longer Such-and-such-Canadian... you are just plain Canadian.

As usual, Canada is ahead of the U.S. We're catching up.

 

[Kulindahr]

So the alternative for orange is "fruit."
And for Toyota Prius is "motorized vehicle."
Brilliant.

That's rather inane.

Show me when oranges have persecuted or discriminated against other fruit on the basis of their not being oranges.

It's very PC to emphasize our differences and thus keep us divided. Politicians love it because it lets them play groups against each other.

If you think "African American" is a term the government should be using, then please write your legislators and urge them to be sure to have different terms for "religious marriage", "gay marriage", and other varieties written into the law -- just to be consistent.

 

[Kulindahr]

Besides, knowing the ancestral heritage of the citizenry can enable government to perform its duties more effectively. Do you also object to government asking if you are male or female (or transgender)? Or how old you are? Or how tall you are?

The government's duty is to protect my rights -- period.

They don't need to know anything about my ethnic or other background to do that -- or my gender, or my height, for that matter.

 

[Kulindahr]

The cure has been widely known for centuries. In less enlightened times it was called miscegenation.

Are you being dense on purpose?

Or did you actually not catch the political commentary in the question?

 

[Kulindahr]

See what I find amusing is that up here.. Black people are referred to as black people... When we refer to African-Canadians it is meant as a person who immigrated from an African nation and is now a Canadian. Up here by about the 3rd generation you are no longer Such-and-such-Canadian... you are just plain Canadian.

This reminds me of the commentator who once noted that the U.S., with all the noise it makes about race, is by doing so one of the most racist societies in existence.

 

[davy]

The government's duty is to protect my rights -- period.

They don't need to know anything about my ethnic or other background to do that -- or my gender, or my height, for that matter.

In regards to your other post: consistency is for machines.

The day that any government on this planet treats and cares for all of its people equally and justly is the same day that our governments are run by machines.

Until then, we're going to have to try to even the playing field as much as we can... even if we do a really bad job at it.

 

[Kulindahr]

In regards to your other post: consistency is for machines.

The day that any government on this planet treats and cares for all of its people equally and justly is the same day that our governments are run by machines.

Until then, we're going to have to try to even the playing field as much as we can... even if we do a really bad job at it.

No one could possibly write software good enough to make a rule by machines equal and just--

So I guess we're stuck with your last statement.