The Official "Big Brother 12" Discussion Thread!

[Sgt Pepper]

My favorite moment in BB history was that game in BB6 where Eric realized he was going to lose. It was like some weird game where you moved and stopped other people. Almost like human chess or something.

That was awesome! It was the moment Kaysar went from odd-man out to marshalling his own alliance of strong competitors and completely splitting the house to take on Cappy and his goons. Kaysar would go on to squander that completely but for a moment there he looked like he had some game. Too bad he shone this one time and one time only.

 

[aijalon18]

BB10 was one of my least favorite seasons. I definitely didn't like Dan. I had to look up who April and Michelle were. I liked Michelle actually once I realized who she was.
.

Finally there is homosexual on this board who is not obsessed with Dan and exaggerate what a genius player he was.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Jameka Jameka Jameka coulda took the $5000!

 

[slipintothefog]

... but she didn't! *OCEAN'S WORTH OF TEARS*

Because I've seen it so many times, that's probably my favorite BB8 moment after Jen in the bunny suit interrupting Jameka praying, which was HILARIOUS because of the cheesy organ music that the producers stuck in the background during the televised show.

 

[altlover85]

That was awesome! It was the moment Kaysar went from odd-man out to marshalling his own alliance of strong competitors and completely splitting the house to take on Cappy and his goons. Kaysar would go on to squander that completely but for a moment there he looked like he had some game. Too bad he shone this one time and one time only.

Yeah, Kaysar was too trusting, unfortunately.

aijalon18, I thought Dan was a good player, but yeah, I wouldn't say he had genius game.

 

[aijalon18]

... but she didn't! *OCEAN'S WORTH OF TEARS*

Because I've seen it so many times, that's probably my favorite BB8 moment after Jen in the bunny suit interrupting Jameka praying, which was HILARIOUS because of the cheesy organ music that the producers stuck in the background during the televised show.

That was the clip of the season!

Yeah, Kaysar was too trusting, unfortunately.

aijalon18, I thought Dan was a good player, but yeah, I wouldn't say he had genius game.

Kaysar was a dope but he' still one of my favorites. He was so lovable.

I don't wanna admit that Dan wasnt a genius too much, you'll get pages and pages of lecture.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

... but she didn't! *OCEAN'S WORTH OF TEARS*

Because I've seen it so many times, that's probably my favorite BB8 moment after Jen in the bunny suit interrupting Jameka praying, which was HILARIOUS because of the cheesy organ music that the producers stuck in the background during the televised show.

Your wish is my command! Incidentally, this is my favorite moment in all of Big Brother:



altlover: exactly, thank you. I don't think anyone who has ever been on this dog and pony show could ever be called a genius (despite Matt's MENSA claims) but whether you like Dan or not, it's hard to argue that a guy who was dead in the water week 2 and made it all the way to the end AND got every single jury vote (which no other winner in BB history has done) didn't play well. I like your distinction between personally not liking someone but still crediting their gameplay. I can't stand Maggie for example, but I can't deny she played those goons in her alliance so well they didn't even realize she was doing it.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Here's how I'd rank all the BB winners from best to worst in terms of gameplay, not likability:

1. Will
2. Dan
3. Jun
4. Hayden
5. Adam
6. Maggie
7. Drew
8. Lisa
9. Boogie
10. Jordan
11. Dick

As a general rule, I think if you get to the end and get the votes, you "deserve" to win (Dick is the only exception to this, see below) in the sense that this isn't figure skating and the jury isn't a judging panel. There's no criteria other than Be-in-the-F2-and-Get-the-Most-Votes. So all these people more or less deserved their titles but we can compare them to each other and rank them.

I think Dick is always the worst of the winners because so much of his game relied on a season-long America's Player which he had no control over. Oh and the fact that the producers let him be the only contestant to play the game with a freaking blood relative.

 

[altlover85]

Perhaps, Dick shouldn't even be on the list in a way because of Eric's role. However, he still was able to get to the end despite questionable behavior and people still voted for him in the end, so I don't know where I'd rank him.

Weren't Cowboy and Nikomis related?

I might have listed Adam lower because Ryan really lost votes because of Jen right?

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Perhaps, Dick shouldn't even be on the list in a way because of Eric's role. However, he still was able to get to the end despite questionable behavior and people still voted for him in the end, so I don't know where I'd rank him.

Well to be fair -- and I'm really trying to be fair here despite utterly despising the man -- he still has to be on the list because he DID win. The unfair advantages he was given makes me rank him lowest on a list of winners, but I can't say he didn't win. Also, the other players on BB 8 were all morons who has SEVERAL opportunities to split the Donatos and never took it (only Jen really tried during her week 2 HOH on the basis that they're fucking related and still the houseguests refused to separate them). Every cast gets the winner it deserves and this cast -- for being a bunch of witless dolts -- deserved to have Dick win.

Weren't Cowboy and Nikomis related?

Ooh, thanks for the correction! However, they didn't know each other -- or that they were related -- until the show began, so there wasn't a life-long bond that extended outside the house like Dick and Daniele. Oh but I guess the twins (Adria and Natalie)* that season also got to play together.

OK, so technically then Dick wasn't the only one to play with a blood relative, but he and Daniele were the only ones on their season to do so, and that was unfair. BB6's Maggie for example can defend her title because everyone got to enter the house as a secret pair, not just her.

(*Notice that the BB5 cast -- not being morons like BB 8 -- knew that the twins had to be separated and they were out BOOM BOOM one after the other. That's how you handle blood relatives.)

I might have listed Adam lower because Ryan really lost votes because of Jen right?

Yeah but think about it: Adam knew enough to read that group, realize they wouldn't give it to Ryan and therefore saddled up to him for an endgame. That was smart. And he particularly showed skill when he convinced Ryan to boot Natalie, "But...oh yeah, Ry-babe let me vote for her to stay while you vote her out, and then next week you can boot your own ally (Sharon) in favor of keeping mine (Sheila)!"

Of course the rankings are subjective and arbitrary, so you're free to place them anywhere you wish.

 

[falconfan]

Perhaps, Dick shouldn't even be on the list in a way because of Eric's role. However, he still was able to get to the end despite questionable behavior and people still voted for him in the end, so I don't know where I'd rank him.

Weren't Cowboy and Nikomis related?

I might have listed Adam lower because Ryan really lost votes because of Jen right?

Dick survived only because Eric (who he and his daughter were targeting) formed an alliance against his interest and Eric had completely control over Jessica who protected effectively saved Dick and Danielle more time than one can count. It was a joke. It was about as credible as Jordan and JEff's coup d'etate the only difference being that Eric was there EVERY WEEK. I mean the week when Dustin was eliminated Eric pulled Dick directly out of the clutches of death which I figure is about equivalent to the Coups effect on the Js. But then Eric continued to be forced to work for Dick and Danielle. He couldnt' even win and HOH because he'd have no control over his own game. It was silly.

I also don't think that Adam was that good. I'd rank Maggie higher than him. And Cowboy and Nakomis were estranged half siblings, also that season the twins played together.

 

[altlover85]

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't know where I'd rank Dick because of Eric. It just makes it difficult to really assess his game because Eric's role was so game breaking.

Eric didn't have to do those things though, did he?

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Dick survived only because Eric (who he and his daughter were targeting) formed an alliance against his interest and Eric had completely control over Jessica who protected effectively saved Dick and Danielle more time than one can count. It was a joke. It was about as credible as Jordan and JEff's coup d'etate the only difference being that Eric was there EVERY WEEK.

Well said falconfan! And Jordan's Coup d'etat is one of the reasons I ranked her lower than Boogie (who at least won his power fair and square and in fact, never had to use it).

I also don't think that Adam was that good. I'd rank Maggie higher than him. And Cowboy and Nakomis were estranged half siblings, also that season the twins played together.

I could switch Adam and Maggie easily, I think a case could be made for both. I ultimately ranked Adam higher only because in the 2nd half of the game I thought he worked James, Ryan, Natalie, Sharon and even Sheila brilliantly, getting them all to do things against their own interests and/or vote for him. And that seems a little more noteworthy than manipulating people like April and Ivette.

Eric didn't have to do those things though, did he?

Yes he absolutely did. Those were the conditions of the AP role.

 

[slipintothefog]

There's no way Dick even would have gotten to the final two if Eric weren't there and actively playing for him, so it'd be hard to assess how worthy of a "winner" he'd be without America's Player. Dustin vs. Dick would have ended with Dick's elimination on any other season, but one of the voters was Dick's OWN DAUGHTER, another one was somebody who had no control over his vote whatsoever (Eric), and a third (Jessica) voted based on said person who had no control over his vote.

Considering Dick's behavior and personality (and, wanting to relive some Jameka ~moments~, today I Youtubed ten minutes of Dick berating Jameka and her religion while she totally ignored him like a saint), he'd be pre-jury fodder or an obvious final two goat in a normal season.

 

[altlover85]

I thought he could turn down doing those things, but if he did he wouldn't get the money for that task?

 

[Sgt Pepper]

There's no way Dick would have even gotten to the final two if Eric weren't there and actively playing for him...he'd be pre-jury fodder or an obvious final two goat in a normal season.

This is objectively true since he was absolutely going home when they started filling the jury, and it was the AP twist that switched it up and sent Dustin packing instead. That's why in my initial post I said he's the one winner who I can't say "deserves" to win simply because he got to the end and got the votes.

At the same time though, the cast had MULTIPLE chances to get rid of him and didn't take any of them. Most famously at F5, when Dick was HOH and nominated Jameka and Eric. Zach won POV and could have easily used it on one of them thereby forcing Danielle on the block since she was the only one left, and they could have voted her out (with the sweetness of it all occurring under Dick's HOH). Like everyone else that season, Zach squandered that opportunity, and that had nothing to do with the AP twist. That whole cast was just beyond stupid.

 

[slipintothefog]

I thought he could turn down doing those things, but if he did he wouldn't get the money for that task?

Yeah, but Eric attempted just about every task because he wanted to kiss America's ass. If I remember correctly, he really did not like Dick as a person but aligned with him just because he was America's Player.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Yeah, but Eric attempted just about every task because he wanted to kiss America's ass. If I remember correctly, he really did not like Dick as a person but aligned with him just because he was America's Player.

He definitely wanted America to like him, but he was also required to vote however America wanted. In that, he had no choice (see below).

I thought he could turn down doing those things, but if he did he wouldn't get the money for that task?

He could turn down specific tasks during the week, but he was required to vote however America wanted. Essentially he had no vote. And once America voted for Dustin instead of Dick, he HAD to form an alliance with the Donatos otherwise his old alliance would know he voted out Dustin and his game would be up (and he wouldn't be able to explain it since he was forbidden from talking about it).

 

[slipintothefog]

I looked up BB8 on Wikipedia to refresh my memory and it reminded me the issue that I had with the casts of BB8 AND BB4: the two "factions" were totally uneven. Having 8/11 original houseguests and 5 exes/3 "enemies" was incredibly lame. Especially in BB4, when only two or three cast changes would have evened them out.

The only reason it didn't completely flop in BB4 is because Allison betrayed the original eight, and it DID fall completely flat in BB8 because Carol/Joe went weeks 1-2 and Dick and Daniele weren't even enemies.

Did Dick, Jessica and Dustin have immunity in week one? I can't remember and Wiki doesn't say.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Did Dick, Jessica and Dustin have immunity in week one? I can't remember and Wiki doesn't say.

Yes they did. Good memory.

On BB4 the unbalanced twist really had efficacy since the F5 were all exes: Jun/Jee, Erika/Robert and Allison.