The Pentagon continues the discrimination and where's Obama?

[Kulindahr]

They think their comrades are learning something by their quiet example. Yet, whenever there is an opportunity to choose a different path, their comrades will always follow tradition and concur: Homosexuality (in word or deed) is not compatible with military service...

What might spur change is if the U.S.miliary suffered some spectactular setback, or suddenly became hugely unpopular, which is not like to happen in our lifetimes.

Polls indicate that those comrades are learning. A majority of cadets at West Point would accept gays serving openly, and the same is true of enlisted personnel currently serving.

Here's an interesting read: http://newswire.ascribe.org/cgi-bin...0808.151550&time=15 36 PDT&year=2006&public=0

 

[Kulindahr]

Ain't sure how effective it would be, but a protest that came to mind is for several thousand gay men/women to dress as soldiers, and march in formation to the white house, or wherever the goal is, stay at ease for however long, and then as a whole, announce something like "We are capable, we are willing, and most importantly, we can shoot straight".

Babi, I slightly agree with you, but the problem is that if they do come forward, unless there is immense pressure from a large portion of the armed forces, chances are they would be discharged just the same. Funny thing is, there are probably some who would have their unit, other units, and superior officers protesting loudly, but they just won't take the chance.

We could form our own militia, and call it the "Rainbow Rifles": gays who are willing to serve, or would have been back when they were young enough.

 

[NickCole]

He had it just fine. His point was that none of those people of consequence seem willing to do anything. That would suggest we're kinda stalled.

Yes, as I posted to him, I was wrong, I misunderstood what he wrote.

 

[Glafna]

Maybe, instead of using gays to ''dress up'' as soldiers,the thousands of real gay soldiers who have honorably served but have been discharged nonetheless should show up.There has been no shortage of Officers who have stated that D.A.D.T. is a pointless waste of military personell. So much for listening to ''the commanders on the ground''..

They are capable, they are willing and the the only one who ain't shooting straight here is Obama.He talks all this head about about protecting the ''homeland'' yet ignores the pleas of a gay infantry Officer and does jack shit while this volunteer soldier is discharged for no other reason because of who he dates. The same is true for the many highly trained, much needed Arab linguists who have also been discharged because they like Madonna.

The military knows this is a foolish policy, they have said as much.Most people know it is. Yet, it's still in effect.The only ones perpetuating this bullshit now is the Democratic Party.

He(Obama) made a point to address this during his campaign.Now,like many other things he promised,he's kicked that to the curb.Or as his devotees say, "just hasn't gotten around to it yet."I don't understand why he just can't issue an executive order like Truman did when he de-segregated the Armed Forces.He is after all, the Commander in Chief of all the military..

Listen, I couldn't stand the guy during the primaries because I belived he was full of shit.I've since warmed up to him a little, but I have a feeling this guys gonna be a one hit wonder.Like most Democratic ''leaders'' he's too wishy washy or as I like say ,''he's a pussy.''

They have the votes,they have the good will of the people that elected them.They just don't have the balls to effect real change.They run the show now, but yet,they still cower before right wing scum.

I'll at least give the right wing vermin they're due..They steamroll whatever horrible agenda they have at the moment,regardless what the opposition thinks.They get results.I don't like the results, but they don't play fuck fuck. They are there for a reason.What are the Democrats there for if not to ram through their agenda WHILE THEY HAVE POWER?

It gets old watching these dickless wonders in the Democratic party constantly wringing their hands,afraid to offend the Republicans.Meanwhile, the people that have supported them(Dems) continue to be ignored and grow more dis-illusioned and disgusted with both parties.

[Inappropriate text: Removed by Moderator]

I try to come up with a legitimate protest idea, and you use and abuse it to take yet more shots at Obama.

And I was referring to gays dressing up as soldiers, to gather gays from several different walks of life, not just from a military background, and show people that we can and will prove ourselves, no matter who we are as people.

You know what, forget about it.... It would just end up as another shot against Obama.

 

[Glafna]

Atm I don't really give a fuck. I am sick and tired of seeing every single thing turned into a shot at obama.

 

[Kulindahr]

Maybe, instead of using gays to ''dress up'' as soldiers,the thousands of real gay soldiers who have honorably served but have been discharged nonetheless should show up.There has been no shortage of Officers who have stated that D.A.D.T. is a pointless waste of military personell. So much for listening to ''the commanders on the ground''..

They are capable, they are willing and the the only one who ain't shooting straight here is Obama.He talks all this head about about protecting the ''homeland'' yet ignores the pleas of a gay infantry Officer and does jack shit while this volunteer soldier is discharged for no other reason because of who he dates. The same is true for the many highly trained, much needed Arab linguists who have also been discharged because they like Madonna.

I like that -- but I'd say both should should up.

To really make an impact, all the currently serving gays should show up, too. I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't a good ten thousand currently in uniform; it wouldn't surprise me if another 10k who would like to serve but don't want to break the law came, either.

So in all it could be a crowd of 30k....

 

[Kulindahr]

As Harry Truman used to say, you remember President Truman don't you? You may recall him as the President who issued the Executive Order de-segregating the United Armed Forces,he used to say ''the buck stops here.'' He used to even keep a plaque with the saying on his desk.

He knew that the President is the one that catches the flak for making tough decisions. Unlike Mr.Obama,President Truman did the right thing,and our country is better off for it.

The difference is that there was no law keeping the services from being integrated, it was just military policy. Obama has a law to deal with, and an executive order can't just overturn a law.
What he could do is order that enforcing that be the lowest-priority item of all, for any officer.

 

[NickCole]

I had sort of an epiphany earlier this evening in Hell's Kitchen.


.... I wonder how well Obama would like it if blacks couldn't marry today, or serve in the military? Would black supporters say "Oh, Obama Can't Do That Right Now -- He's Got To Fix The Economy?"

No, they would not. They would -- and correctly -- DEMAND their rights. They would -- and rightly -- go fucking nuts. But we don't: we are the Happy House Negroes, content to sleep on the Massa's kitchen floor.

I'm tired of waiting. It's a pity out first black president is a homophobe, but how else to explain his selective belief in who is -- and who is not -- qualified for full equality?

We are CRAZY to buy into the notion that blacks, whites, Latinos, everyone and anyone is READY and QUALIFIED for IMMEDIATE and FULL rights -- except us. No, you see, we have to wait our turn. Really, we are gay Uncle Toms.

I've been saying the same thing for months.

You're late to the party and what do you say about me, who got it all along? You say I belong in Bellevue. Even after your epiphany you're still attacking. That's the reason we end up with Presidents that make the choices Bush made and Obama is making. When people you've recognized as "a voice of reason" say things that are against the popular majority, listen and question rather than attack.

 

[Kulindahr]

^

blah blah blah

 

[Kulindahr]

You just wanted to get in an extra blah, or is that the last blah? LOL

I thought maybe someone would post:


Blah blah blah blah.

 

[Centexfarmer]

I've been saying the same thing for months.

You're late to the party and what do you say about me, who got it all along? You say I belong in Bellevue. Even after your epiphany you're still attacking. That's the reason we end up with Presidents that make the choices Bush made and Obama is making. When people you've recognized as "a voice of reason" say things that are against the popular majority, listen and question rather than attack.

Come on Nick.

You and I were both Hillary Supporters during the Democratic Primaries last year, and we're starting to get a pretty good idea of some of those who are NOW thinking that Hillary looks even better now.

Obama was something NEW AND IMPROVED, so why should we be buying generic?

I'm not real thrilled, nor am I really that impressed with my party's choice for POTUS right about now.

He's being painted as a "tax and spend liberal," while at the same time being neither, and giving the other half of Bush Country reason to forget the spending frenzy that their "social conservative" agenda gave us.

When it comes to "Gay Equality" the Dems promise us justice, and then provide nothing, and the GOP kicks us to pander to their "base," and collectively as a "community" we continue to act like the codependent step child just wanting to be loved, while we fight amongst ourselves, and continue to financially support which ever group that we feel that we can get the most love from.

 

[NickCole]

Come on Nick.

You and I were both Hillary Supporters during the Democratic Primaries last year, and we're starting to get a pretty good idea of some of those who are NOW thinking that Hillary looks even better now.

I haven't noticed that.

Even in the thread about Hillary breaking new ground in making sure gays in State have equal partner rights, many Obama supporters are thanking Obama.

Obama was something NEW AND IMPROVED, so why should we be buying generic?

Obama was new but he was not improved. I said that, back then, and he's proving I was right.

I'm not real thrilled, nor am I really that impressed with my party's choice for POTUS right about now.

But you're surprised.

I am not. I saw Obama for who he is. You saw him as the candidate with a "D" next to his name.

He's being painted as a "tax and spend liberal," while at the same time being neither,

He's not liberal (he's unprincipled) but he sure is tax and spend. Maybe you like where he's spending and maybe you approve of his raised taxes, but claiming he isn't doing that is incorrect.

and giving the other half of Bush Country reason to forget the spending frenzy that their "social conservative" agenda gave us.

And also Obama is giving them cover for the Bush/Cheney War on Terror crimes that a year ago we (and Obama) said were ruining our nation and our reputation internationally.

Obama is proving to be every bit as bad as I said he'd be.

When it comes to "Gay Equality" the Dems promise us justice, and then provide nothing,

Obama, the head of the Democratic Party, is providing nothing.

Hillary Clinton, as Secretary of State, is providing equal benefits and standing for gay partners. Within the scope of her influence, she is providing what she promised us during the campaign.

and the GOP kicks us to pander to their "base," and collectively as a "community" we continue to act like the codependent step child just wanting to be loved, while we fight amongst ourselves, and continue to financially support which ever group that we feel that we can get the most love from.

Not me.

Obama supporters gushed about how Obama's talk of hope and change made them feel. I get love from my partner and friends; from elected officials I want clear plans, a measure of honesty where it counts, and action.

And there are a few other gay men who think as independently as I. Not many, and they're aging, but there are some.

 

[NickCole]

^ Good News, Nick! The National Weather Service is reporting possible showers this afternoon, so you'll have plenty of clouds to shout at.

Silly man.

We own several acres in the country where we've planted gardens and an orchard in the midst of gentle lawns that wither without enough water. That's where I am now in fact. Just finished planting my herb garden. I'm a practical man as happy with clouds and showers as I am with sunshine, and I greet both with a smile not a shout.

 

[NickCole]

Well, Obama's rumored to be announcing his Supreme Court nominee this morning.

We'll have a better idea where his head is really at by his pick.

I wonder if he'll ball lick the right wing again by nominating someone who will appease them?

I'm not holding my breath for a real left wing Justice here.

Indeed.


Favorites of Left Don’t Make Obama’s Court List

WASHINGTON — Pamela S. Karlan is a champion of gay rights, criminal defendants’ rights and voting rights. She is considered brilliant, outspoken and, in her own words, “sort of snarky.” To liberal supporters, she is an Antonin Scalia for the left.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/26/us/politics/26court.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

Obama doesn't have the principles or courage it would take to pick Karlan or anyone like her.

 

[Spensed]

Obama's as much of a centrist and he's a left winger. Haven't you got that yet?

Judges like Scalia are antithetical to respect for the courts and the rule of law whether they're from the right or the left.

I suspect that Obama's influence on the Supreme Court will be the greater for being more sophisticated in his appointments than you might be. LOL.

 

[NickCole]

Obama's as much of a centrist and he's a left winger. Haven't you got that yet?

What you don't get is that one can't be both centrist and a left winger. If one pretends to be both, he's neither.

 

[NickCole]

(Spenced): ... Judges like Scalia are antithetical to respect for the courts and the rule of law whether they're from the right or the left. ...

The SCOTUS shouldn't be a carnival side-show, replete with midgets and three-titted bearded ladies. Nothing wrong with moderation.

Since Pamela Karlan is the name mentioned to which you and Spenced responded in these posts, I'll just say it's a real shame --once again-- to see how low some gay Obama supporters sink in their need to protect and defend their Dear Leader.

Pamela Karlan, who is brilliant and openly gay (her partner is Viola Canales), deserves more respect than even remotely connecting her to descriptions like, "carnival side-show, replete with midgets and three-titted bearded ladies."

Pamela S. Karlan is a professor at Stanford Law School and an authority on voting and constitutional law.

Ms. Karlan, who is gay, has been mentioned as a possible nominee for the Supreme Court when Justice David H. Souter retires at the end of the term in June.

Professor Karlan served as a law clerk to Justice Harry A. Blackmun of the Supreme Court and Judge Abraham D. Sofaer of the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York. She is the co-author of three leading casebooks on constitutional law and related subjects.

She graduated magna cum laude from Yale University, earned a masters in history at Yale and graduated from Yale Law School, where she served as articles and book editor for Yale Law Journal.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/k/pamela_s_karlan/index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamela_S._Karlan

 

[Spensed]

What you don't get is that one can't be both centrist and a left winger. If one pretends to be both, he's neither.

Horse feathers.

 

[Kulindahr]

When it comes to "Gay Equality" the Dems promise us justice, and then provide nothing, and the GOP kicks us to pander to their "base," and collectively as a "community" we continue to act like the codependent step child just wanting to be loved, while we fight amongst ourselves, and continue to financially support which ever group that we feel that we can get the most love from.

And if the gay community had collective brains, we'd tell the 'Big Two' to go screw themselves (as opposed to each other... and the public), and all join the Libertarian Party -- they actually believe in equality before the law for all.

 

[White Eagle]

^ Ah, he's the president. He made promises he isn't keeping. I agree that some so-called "people" are crazy-assed in their hatred of Obama, so crazy that I think they need to check into Bellevue. But we HAVE TO HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE.

He's not your lover, he's not your favorite singer on American Idol, he's not the boy next door, he's not a starting pitcher for the Mets (Go, Mets!) he's OUR employee. I want him to succeed, I want him to be a great president, and the way to "encourage" him to succeed isn't by making excuses when he's slacking, backtracking or otherwise fucking around, it's by calling him out when he ignores or rejects OUR needs in favor of expediency, or in favor of louder, more powerful OTHER interests.

When he does good, I applaud; when he fucks up, I boo. I'm not going to blow him just because he makes nice speeches, I want fucking results. Yes, he's only been in office for 120 days and yes, he's done good things under terrible circumstances. But he is a politician and what politicians understand is pressure. If we don't keep up the pressure, other will, others being his boyfriends on Wall Street and in the military. Guess who wins in those circumstances?

I'm gonna use your post to make my point. You have said it best so far in this thread.]

Today on MSNBC David Shuster (please, I don't care who doesn't like him), bear with me. He has a section on his show that shows hiprocracy. Guess who was the honoree? Mr. Pres himself. It was on DADT. How he campaigned to overturn it and hasn't done anything. Help me look for the article. It hasn't been posted yet. It just happened about 15 or 20 min ago.
He even brought up how Gates, himself in an online chat said he is for overturning DADT.