the playing field isn't level yet- white households headed by a high school drop out 3x wealthier than black households headed by a college grad

[opinterph]

a dangerous distracting sideshow that ignores rights and posits a bunch of disposable privileges.

What’s your view?

I think the wealth disparity between college-educated whites and college-educated blacks presents a reasonable illustration of white privilege. While the situation may be a result of racism, I don’t think it is fitting to identify the disparity itself as racism. It is simply an objective observation of how things are here and now. And there is no reason that the sideshow cannot result in a positive contribution toward policies and actions that might help resolve the disparity we’ve identified. It’s another tool in our collection of ways to think about and discuss what needs to be done moving forward.

Peggy McIntosh apparently has a bunch of lists … trivializing real problems, muddying the waters and distracting from actual racism, sexism, or homophobia that continue to corrode people’s equality.

It’s like a venn diagram. McIntosh recognized that hierarchies in society interlock. It is possible to possess multiple privileges by inclusion in more than one “class.”

Do you mean to assert that as a rule, people now have all their rights?

I mean that your rights exist whether or not your government or your neighbors recognize them. You are able to use all your rights.

 

[peeonme]

Are you saying this because you believe that black families all live in the inner city?

That's about as offensive as asking why poor white people work in coal mines and live in trailers in small towns where alcoholism and drug addiction are prevalent.

Although neither question has any connection to the Fed study.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._cities_with_large_African-American_populations
I am saying that in Detroit 84% of the population is black. Detroit is more expensive to to in, so why stay there? Many other large cities are more expensive and have a disproportionate number of blacks. This thread is about wealth or the lack thereof, so why reside in a more expensive, more dangerous city if you don't have to? Why would this be offensive? I happen to live in a 'trailer park' I chose to live here because it is the most economical way to go.

Of all of the luggage that the black person has had to carry, be it discrimination, segregation, prejudice, violence, hatred, jim crow laws or what ever else if I missed anything, the one piece of luggage that law can't deal with is victim-hood. That's not to say that the blacks have not been victims, they have been and still are in many cases. This victim status is reinforced by a political party that seeks their votes and by the other party that doesn't even care if they get to vote.

People, be they black, white, brown or what ever need to be individuals, when I was a boy all I ever heard was how hard life was, how poor we were. I never saw myself as poor and I have never been poor. The power of suggestion has a lot of power. So does the power of positive thinking.

So this report shows that life is unfair, I think that most people knew that, I ask what can be done about it? How can we get people to face adversity and overcome it? I have always conceded that being white was the one break that I got in life, anyone who is honest would have to know that especially in my generation that being white at least got your foot in the door. We have passed laws, we have affirmative action we have outlawed hate speech and hate crimes, that is all great. I am not saying that blacks should go in to denial and pretend that all is fine. I am saying that the constant indictment of the white man brings forth resentment. Most white people live from payday to payday.

People can be angry, cry foul and be offended, but none of that can fix the problem.

 

[opinterph]

McIntosh’s progressive take feeds Benvolio’s ethnopolitical nonsense.

There is a very strong case for that.

Benvolio argued that McIntosh’s progressive take is itself racism. – Racism against whites. He wanted to point out every instance of that injustice. And it follows that if McIntosh’s progressive take is to be allowed in our discussions, then other racist takes should also be allowed. He didn’t expect to quash McIntosh’s progressive take; he preferred to exploit it as anti-white racism – which is perhaps ironic when we examine the counter arguments to McIntosh's progressive take from you and others.

In the excerpt below McIntosh's progressive take is referred to as “White Privilege Pedagogy.”

… the discourse that claims to support blacks’ interests by denouncing whites’ privileges fails to consider how whites’ privileges can be extended to blacks, and how blacks may in fact deserve what whites already have. This is a significant omission since McIntosh herself acknowledges that many of the privileges she lists (like the “privilege” of living in a neighborhood of one’s choice, a place that’s safe, where one’s neighbors don’t harm you), are not privileges at all, but “should be the norm in a just society and should be considered as the entitlement of everyone.” The irony here is that McIntosh’s main concern, and the main concern of white privilege pedagogy in general, despite its antiracist front, is not with extending these basic human rights to people of color so much as giving whites a chance to hold forth about their own and others’ experiences. It’s not about giving blacks more voice, nor is it about helping blacks and other racial minorities achieve liberation and equality. Rather, it’s about giving whites the authority to speak for and about blacks, as if whites’ version of history has somehow been neglected, as if it is some sort of key ingredient, the missing link that prevents whites from shedding the unwanted mantle of oppressor.

Unpacking the invisible knapsack: The invention of white privilege pedagogy (Leslie Margolin; 2015)

 

[peeonme]

So, where does the responsibility lay to level this field?
Is it in opportunity? that's not working too well it would seem. Especially when it targets an ethnic group as opposed to a social/economic level.
Supplemental programs tend to make the recipients more dependent upon supplements.

You dare not suggest that people try harder, that's unfair. Why should a black person have to work harder and apply themselves more than a white person? And then still not be on level ground with them.

We post about inequity, inequity and list the problems and talk about the effects of band aids and shampoo.

I don't know that I have ever read or heard of a cure, something, a program or whatever that would fix this issue.

It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness, or so I've been told.

 

[bankside]

So, where does the responsibility lay to level this field?
Is it in opportunity? that's not working too well it would seem. Especially when it targets an ethnic group as opposed to a social/economic level.
Supplemental programs tend to make the recipients more dependent upon supplements.

You dare not suggest that people try harder, that's unfair. Why should a black person have to work harder and apply themselves more than a white person? And then still not be on level ground with them.

We post about inequity, inequity and list the problems and talk about the effects of band aids and shampoo.

I don't know that I have ever read or heard of a cure, something, a program or whatever that would fix this issue.

It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness, or so I've been told.

There is a tradition of telling people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps when they couldn’t actually afford bootstraps of their own in the first place. That’s just shitty smug hypocrisy, and of course it doesn’t help anybody but it does let you blame them for their problems.

Then, there is a trend over the last 20 years of keeping a few people spectacularly profitable, due mostly to “cost savings” taken out of the pay of middle-class workers to keep those profits alive. That needs to be stopped. The way to do that is with old-fashioned demands for higher wages. People need to stop settling for a meager paycheque. People need to stop trying to just scrape by. We need to breathe some life back into unions, who have lost their way over time and have decayed into irrelevance. And we need to figure out some idea of what is fair for a person to own, at a minimum, so we can even tell if a job offer is fair or not.

When a business pays so little that most of their full-time staff still qualify for government aid just to buy groceries, then that’s a completely crazy situation. You end up with business taxing government instead of the other way around. In places like that, people
Should be voting for legislators who do things like double the minimum wage.

 

[peeonme]

There is a tradition of telling people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps when they couldn’t actually afford bootstraps of their own in the first place. That’s just shitty smug hypocrisy, and of course it doesn’t help anybody but it does let you blame them for their problems.

Then, there is a trend over the last 20 years of keeping a few people spectacularly profitable, due mostly to “cost savings” taken out of the pay of middle-class workers to keep those profits alive. That needs to be stopped. The way to do that is with old-fashioned demands for higher wages. People need to stop settling for a meager paycheque. People need to stop trying to just scrape by. We need to breathe some life back into unions, who have lost their way over time and have decayed into irrelevance. And we need to figure out some idea of what is fair for a person to own, at a minimum, so we can even tell if a job offer is fair or not.

When a business pays so little that most of their full-time staff still qualify for government aid just to buy groceries, then that’s a completely crazy situation. You end up with business taxing government instead of the other way around. In places like that, people
Should be voting for legislators who do things like double the minimum wage.

As for the boot straps, I believe that one should do the best that they can with what they have.
The trend that you refer to has been largely ignored. It seems that our government in the USA forgot about the working man a long time ago. The workers getting food stamps is a back door subsidy to big business.
When we left 'demand side' or Keynesian economics for 'trickle down' under Reagan it was the beginning of of the end of the middle class as we knew it.

 

[PrivateTimm]

Your entire premise is BS, to be polite.

Your topic title says "white households headed by a high school drop out 3x wealthier than black households headed by a college grad". here is what the study says, "Hamilton et al. (2015) point out that Black households with college-educated heads have 33 percent less wealth than White households headed by high school dropouts."

33% less is 1/3. 3x more is 300%.

Bogus from the get go.

Here is the abstract of the study.

A college education has been linked to higher life-time earnings and better economic achievements, so the expectation would be that it is also linked to higher net wealth for everybody. However, recent analyses challenge this hypothesis and find that the expectation holds true for White college-educated households but not for Black college-educated households. To examine this finding further and investigate the role of family financial transfers in household net wealth, the authors perform a mixed-method study using data from the Panel Study of Income Dynamics for a 24-year period, 1989-2013, and qualitative data from the Institute on Assets and Social Policy Levering Mobility study. Their results confirm that White college-educated households amass wealth, whereas the wealth of their Black counterparts declines. The authors also estimate the impact of just inheritance or large financial gifts and find that they decrease the existing racial wealth gap by nearly $40,000, or 20 percent. Further analyses demonstrate that White college graduates are significantly and substantially more likely to provide and receive financial support for education and/or a home purchase, while Black college graduates are significantly more likely to financially support their parents. Multivariate regression analysis identifies receipt of financial support for education and a home purchase as a positive contributor to net wealth and financial help for parents as a negative contributor to net wealth, disadvantaging Black college-educated households, who are less likely to receive and more likely to give financial support. Longitudinal interview data collected in the Institute on Assets and Social Policy Leveraging Mobility study illustrate the mechanisms of family financial transfers and their relationship to wealth accumulation, contrasting the White and Black households’ experiences. The discussion underscores the need to better understand intergenerational wealth and wealth sharing within families when studying wealth outcomes and highlights the role of family financial wealth transfers in creating opportunities for those who benefit the most—mostly White college-educated households.

Some of the highlights of just the abstract are: a) white parents support their kids college education to a higher degree than black parents do b)white college grads save for their children; black college grads help support their parents.

The study is about intergenerational wealth and wealth sharing. White college grads share with the next generation, bolstering accumulation. Black college grads share with the last generation, reducing accumulation.

It has nothing to do with racial animosity or discrimination as all the posts so far have been claiming.

I doubt anyone actually read the study.

 

[peeonme]

Your entire premise is BS, to be polite.

Your topic title says "white households headed by a high school drop out 3x wealthier than black households headed by a college grad". here is what the study says, "Hamilton et al. (2015) point out that Black households with college-educated heads have 33 percent less wealth than White households headed by high school dropouts."

33% less is 1/3. 3x more is 300%.

Bogus from the get go.

Here is the abstract of the study.



Some of the highlights of just the abstract are: a) white parents support their kids college education to a higher degree than black parents do b)white college grads save for their children; black college grads help support their parents.

The study is about intergenerational wealth and wealth sharing. White college grads share with the next generation, bolstering accumulation. Black college grads share with the last generation, reducing accumulation.

It has nothing to do with racial animosity or discrimination as all the posts so far have been claiming.

I doubt anyone actually read the study.

If blacks are not in a position to contribute to their children as opposed to being supported by them in contrast to white kids getting help from their parents we would do well to consider what factors contribute to this. Is it lack of opportunity? To be honest, at face value the title of this thread just seemed to be another excuse to complain, I must confess that I grow weary of the complaints but it doesn't mean that the poor math and anger prove that they are invalid altogether.

 

[KaraBulut]

...I doubt anyone actually read the study.

Actually, if you read the thread, you'd know that several of us read the study (and not just the abstract).

Some of us have already read the Darrick Hamilton et al 2015 paper (Umbrellas Don’t Make it Rain: Why Studying Hard and Working Hard Isn’t Enough for Black Americans), which said:

...the typical black family in the poorest 20 percent of the income distribution—those with incomes under $18,480 annually has virtually no wealth, while the equivalent white family holds nearly $15,000 in wealth...

Among the black upper-middle class, the relative situation is not much better: the typical blackfamily earning between $54,000 and $93,000 a year has a much smaller nest egg to draw upon than their white counterpart. The median wealth for an upper-middle class white family, $136,390, is more than triple the $36,430 median wealth for upper-middle class black families, an absolute difference of $100,000.

You are correct about the math in the thread title (comparing college grad black families to high school dropout white families), though. According to the Hamilton (2015) study:

Indeed, black families whose head earned a college degree have only 2/3 of the wealth of white families headed by a high school dropout.

It has nothing to do with racial animosity or discrimination as all the posts so far have been claiming.

That's not exactly true either. The Meschede & Taylor study doesn't really have any clear discussion about why the wealth gap exists although there are some hints in the study as to why there's a financial deficit in previous generations of black families and why college-educated black children might have to help support their parents.

Hmmm... let see... why might elderly black people might not have as much wealth accumulation as their white counterparts. What might have been different during their years as wage-earners?

 

[bankside]

While you may not appreciate the name that somehow got associated with the concept (i.e. privilege), you seem to acknowledge its basis – so long as you are permitted to call it by a different (and more generic) name.

If people use the term, it seems permissible to find ways to translate the core concept during contemporary communication, rather than first insisting on amending the glossary.

Is white privilege a form of racism or is it just one of the oddities about how things evolved – like red = stop; green = go?

Further to this, I have a book i’m planning to read on the way.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...t-thing-on-privilege-youll-ever-need-to-read/

 

[opinterph]

Further to this, I have a book i’m planning to read on the way.

I confess that you have moved my thinking on this issue, but I continue to surmise that privilege can be identified and used as a helpful description in order to facilitate discussion without involving an accusation. Perhaps a term other than privilege would better identify the effect – like maybe, “advantage” or “unearned gratuity.” It’s something that exists in contemporary culture and has been carried forward and propagated in large part because it is somewhat inconspicuous. I can envision a sociologist or anthropologist studying the concept simply as a means to better understand why some things are the way they are.

Bovy regards the act of calling someone “privileged” as “a personal insult posing as social critique.” I suppose it depends on the motivation of the observer as to whether the identification of privilege implies intent to incriminate persons to whom that determination may apply. I would be interested to learn to what extent Bovy embraces the concept of overlapping hierarchies of privilege.

Regardless of whether usage of the term or its underlying concept is appropriate, I think we should have some degree of familiarity with it and be prepared to constructively engage others when the “insult/critique” is presented during the course of our conversations.

 

[mcbrion]

Here is a black guy on youtube that agrees with me regarding college degrees.

And here is a black woman on youtube who agrees with me.

So, stop majoring in majors like general studies and expect to get paid as much as the guy who designs robots.

Alright, Aristocratic, your arguments are specious and purposely AVOID true - and proven - facts.. Lets look at other factors, [Text: Removed]

https://www.facebook.com/1968485808...evb6wQ0OyhPzzhKtiGbE9fGHYY-sQtfgaZA8AOnOizdqU

 

[peeonme]

Alright, Aristocratic, your arguments are specious and purposely AVOID true - and proven - facts.. Lets look at other factors, [Text: Removed]

https://www.facebook.com/1968485808...evb6wQ0OyhPzzhKtiGbE9fGHYY-sQtfgaZA8AOnOizdqU

View attachment 1276059

We can look at history and it won't change what is happening today.

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/2010_census/cb11-cn185.html
Detroit had the Highest Percentage of Blacks Among Largest Places

Among places with populations of 100,000 or more, the highest percentage of blacks alone-or-in-combination was found in Detroit (84 percent), followed by Jackson, Miss. (80 percent), Miami Gardens, Fla. (78 percent) and Birmingham, Ala. (74 percent). These four places also had the highest percentage of the black alone population.

www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2015...times-the-wealth-of-a-black-one/#922b9c41f45e

1. Homeownership

For most U.S. families, a home usually comprises the largest portion of their assets.

“Homeownership is the central vehicle Americans use to store wealth, so homeownership and access to homeownership are at the heart of that widening wealth gap,” says Ruetschlin.

But disparities in homeownership fall along racial and ethnic lines. Seventy-three percent of whites own a home, compared to 47% of Latinos and 45% of blacks.

Screen Shot 2015-03-26 at 12.50.04 AM

The median white homeowner’s house is worth $85,800 compared to $50,000 for black homeowners and $48,000 for Latino homeowners.

https://www.ibtimes.com/500-houses-not-selling-detroit-suburbs-are-booming-1428636

The median selling price in the Detroit area rose just 3.8 percent to $11,000 in September, according to data from Realcomp, the multiple listings service for Southeast Michigan (via MI Live). Meanwhile, sales fell 13.4 percent to just 415 units.

Meanwhile, Wayne County as a whole is doing much better. The median selling price for the county jumped 50.8 percent since last September to $75,000, even though the actual number of home sales dropped 3.7 percent. Neighboring counties Oakland and Macomb saw median prices increase just 17.5 percent and 6.9 percent respectively.

The reason for the overall growth is in the suburbs, where buyers are more confident and looking to make a long-term investment.

"You try to get your people in the house the day it lists, because it might sell right away," real estate agent Pat Chasteen, who works in Grosse Pointe Farms, a suburb in Wayne County, told the Wall Street Journal.

In the city of Belleville, which is also part of Wayne County and just a 30-minute drive from Detroit, the median sales price is $144,000 with an average listing price of $158,305. Online real-estate firm Trulia lists 509 homes for sale and 298 foreclosures.

While there have been a fair number of foreclosed homes in the suburban areas, they are easily absorbed by the market. Meanwhile, there have been an overwhemling number of them in Detroit. This, plus concerns about safety, public schools and high taxes are putting people off buying homes for a few hundred dollars.

The greatest asset is a house, if it is bought in the right place, location, location, location.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Here is a black guy on youtube that agrees with me regarding college degrees.

In case I didn't stress this the first time, "This black person agrees with me" is the laziest and most offensive response in the world.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

https://www.facebook.com/NowThisPolitics/videos/2230528290311982/

exhibit 16,448,641

if elected Mrs Hayes will be the first black woman from new england elected to congress. ever.

first.

black.

woman.

from.

new england.

elected.

to.

congress.

ever.

that we still have "first black" anything today is just more mountains of proof that equality is a looooooong way off. wait, is it ok to refer to it as inequality or is THAT offensive too?

 

[KaraBulut]

https://www.facebook.com/NowThisPolitics/videos/2230528290311982/

exhibit 16,448,641

if elected Mrs Hayes will be the first black woman from new england elected to congress. ever.

Ms Shirley Chisholm is going to take off her earrings, get out of her grave and come beat the bejeezus out of you.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Ms Shirley Chisholm is going to take off her earrings, get out of her grave and come beat the bejeezus out of you.

Is NY considered part of New england, or was it at the time?

 

[KaraBulut]

Is NY considered part of New england, or was it at the time?

Technically, historic "New England" is the original 6 English colonies. New York was originally a Dutch colony, so it wasn't one of the 6.

But of those 6- Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island and Vermont- well, they're about as white as it gets. You can drive and drive and drive and not see anyone that wears anything less than SPF 23. I wouldn't expect a lot of minority representation from those states.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Technically, historic "New England" is the original 6 English colonies. New York was originally a Dutch colony, so it wasn't one of the 6.

But of those 6- Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island and Vermont- well, they're about as white as it gets. You can drive and drive and drive and not see anyone that wears anything less than SPF 23. I wouldn't expect a lot of minority representation from those states.

Double-checking, I knew new england was 6 states and always thought ny wasn't one of em. so yeah, she'd be the first black congresswoman from new england.

 

[KaraBulut]

Double-checking, I knew new england was 6 states and always thought ny wasn't one of em. so yeah, she'd be the first black congresswoman from new england.

It's an indication of how much progress was lost since Chisholm.

Another irony: her successor was Geraldine Ferraro, the first female top-of-ticket candidate from a major political party. Thirty years later and we still haven't had a female President or Vice-President and while we have several women of color in Congress, we've never had a year like 2018 where there are so many really good female candidates and particularly female candidates from diverse backgrounds.