the playing field isn't level yet- white households headed by a high school drop out 3x wealthier than black households headed by a college grad

[fabulouslyghetto]

There is no such thing as privilege. There is no such thing as privilege.

I will say it slower for you.

There.
Is.
No.
Such
Thing.
As.
Privilege.

This is the most dishonest thing I've read in all my years on JUB. I didn't read the rest, if it starts out with a lie there's nowhere to go but down. Not only does privilege [one form of it being racial privilege-- other being gender, economic, social] exist, it's measurable, provable and is common knowledge that is openly acknowledged by leaders in the fields of economics and education. Nobody's really denying it anymore. except you.

 

[bankside]

This is the most dishonest thing I've read in all my years on JUB. I didn't read the rest, if it starts out with a lie there's nowhere to go but down. Not only does privilege [one form of it being racial privilege-- other being gender, economic, social] exist, it's measurable, provable and is common knowledge that is openly acknowledged by leaders in the fields of economics and education. Nobody's really denying it anymore. except you.

Ha. You read the rest and had no answer for it.

There is no such thing as privilege. There is only equality, or discrimination. Privilege has been the poorest most unmarketable way to describe the human condition since the end of WWII. If we can’t explain society or what’s wrong with it to people we can’t frame the changes we need to make our civilization equal, and we seem to have taken leave of our senses on the progressive side of the house circa 1993. “Privilege” is acknowledged inside bubbles of “queer theory” or “gender studies” or “crit lit” and those bubbles are more or less divorced from political history, or marketing, or realpolitik, or any other discipline outside their little echo chambers, and they’re being easily popped by the likes of Trump. We need something a lot stronger than those bubbles of nonsense to protect our rights and ensure they are finally expanded to include everyone.

There is no “straight privilege” although there is still some homophobia.

There is no “white privilege” although there is still some racism.

There is no “male privilege” although there is still sometimes misogyny.

And there is no talking sense to some people, no matter how many elections keep going wrong.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Ha. You read the rest and had no answer for it.

There is no such thing as privilege. There is only equality, or discrimination. Privilege has been the poorest most unmarketable way to describe the human condition since the end of WWII. If we can’t explain society or what’s wrong with it to people we can’t frame the changes we need to make our civilization equal, and we seem to have taken leave of our senses on the progressive side of the house circa 1993. “Privilege” is acknowledged inside bubbles of “queer theory” or “gender studies” or “crit lit” and those bubbles are more or less divorced from political history, or marketing, or realpolitik, or any other discipline outside their little echo chambers, and they’re being easily popped by the likes of Trump. We need something a lot stronger than those bubbles of nonsense to protect our rights and ensure they are finally expanded to include everyone.

There is no “straight privilege” although there is still some homophobia.

There is no “white privilege” although there is still some racism.

There is no “male privilege” although there is still sometimes misogyny.

And there is no talking sense to some people, no matter how many elections keep going wrong.

So prejudice exists but only in a vacuum? I wish I lived in your reality. Your attitude falls perfectly in line with American history. Deny and deflect that was the response to slavery, to post-abolition bigotry, to Jim Crow, lynching, segregation, close your eyes and pretend it's not happening, or else demonize black people who dare to talk about it. You'd have a leg to stand on if it weren't well-documented. But I understand why you deny white privelege, who wants to be a part of dismantling a system that favors them? Who wants to admit they know it's going on and don't care simply because it doesn't affect them? You've been trained by the elite to view minority problems as competition to your own. Unfortunately for you I went to school, I pay attention, I know what's going on so you're really wasting your time trying to convince me that something we all know exists doesn't. Don't look now, but even a lot of your fellow white people are admitting to this privelege. Catch up babe.

 

[mcbrion]

Could you give some examples of this active discrimination? I know that profiling is a problem, perhaps the biggest problem. When it comes to housing and employment I haven't seen it since the late 60's. As for the title of this thread, I read the article in the link. I didn't see a comparison of 'white drop outs' and 'black college grads' in it.

You "haven't seen it"? Would you recognize it if you did see it? I've seen it - and well PAST the 60s. Just because you can see does not mean that you can recognize. That's a pretty absurd statement to make. Even if you were Black. In fact, if you WERE Black, it would mean you had a problem recognizing reality, so far off the mark is that statement.
In fact, where do people GET the idea that, simply because THEY haven't seen it, it doesn't exist?? Isn't that what the President of the US believes, too? That Russia and Putin did not interfere in our election process? "He said he didn't do it." I'm afraid your statement runs along those lines. It's understandable you wouldn't recognize it, though. Not part of your everyday life.

 

[Thad1527]

Ginai Seabron last April became the first African-American woman to receive a degree in nanotechnology from Virginia Tech. https://vtnews.vt.edu/articles/2018/05/051618-dsa-ginaiseabron.html#
Good for her! But WHAT TOOK SO LONG? Maybe we need much more emphasis in science and tech in urban schools. I know there are more African-Americans in pharmacy school today...It's very expensive but pays for itself fairly easily and surely with diverse career opportunities.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

You "haven't seen it"? Would you recognize it if you did see it? I've seen it - and well PAST the 60s. Just because you can see does not mean that you can recognize. That's a pretty absurd statement to make. Even if you were Black. In fact, if you WERE Black, it would mean you had a problem recognizing reality, so far off the mark is that statement.
In fact, where do people GET the idea that, simply because THEY haven't seen it, it doesn't exist?? Isn't that what the President of the US believes, too? That Russia and Putin did not interfere in our election process? "He said he didn't do it." I'm afraid your statement runs along those lines. It's understandable you wouldn't recognize it, though. Not part of your everyday life.

It speaks to someone's motivations and lack of perspective when "I haven't seen it" is considered sufficient to invalidate the experiences of not only one person but an entire group of people. That's the prevailing chorus any time a black American cries for injustice. "Your experiences are not valid."

 

[Thad1527]

And there's no shortage of nerdy black kids here. I love 'em...they live in my neighborhood, I ride with them on SEPTA, and I work with some "overgrown" ones. Somebody tell them of the opportunities out there. Early, please.

 

[Latimer]

And whose fault is it when a student majors in things like gender studies and art history?

From my personal experience, there just ain't that many black engineers around. I live in the chicago area. We should be swimming in black engineers. But we don't.

But don't take my word for it. Here is an article on the matter of college majors with blacks.

http://www.blackenterprise.com/african-americans-are-highly-concentrated-in-low-paying-majors/

What about construction? Construction workers get paid pretty darn well. I can tell you that, considering I approve their payments and regularly audit what contractors pay their workers. Again, this is the chicago area and I should be swimming in black workers. But years of experience tells me there just ain't that many blacks in the field. These are tradesmen, meaning no college degree. Electricians and operators get paid the most. Almost all operators and electricians are white. Laborers get paid pretty well though less than electricians. Almost all laborers are Hispanic.

You can't make the argument of discrimination if people's personal choices lead to low paying fields.

I'm not saying there aren't discrimination around. Just not here.

It's not my fault when people, white or black, make foolish career choices. And aren't the STEM majors now often largely populated by students of Asian descent, who are not only smart, but willing to work hard?

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

It's not my fault when people, white or black, make foolish career choices. And aren't the STEM majors now often largely populated by students of Asian descent, who are not only smart, but willing to work hard?

I see a lot of contenders for a gold medal in the Missing the Point Olympics.

 

[Dominus]

I see a lot of contenders for a gold medal in the Missing the Point Olympics.

After all this time, you still haven't addressed the fact that black college students flock to majors of low paid fields. Are you waiting for someone to do it for you? Because of all the words you put in this thread, the only thing you have brought up is racism. From my perspective, this is perpetual victimhood without any thought on how to move on from here.

Help me out here. Tell me why blacks with college degrees should be getting paid the same as everybody else if blacks keep graduating with degrees in low paid fields while other groups like asians are graduating with degrees in high paid fields. Be specific.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

After all this time, you still haven't addressed the fact that black college students flock to majors of low paid fields. Are you waiting for someone to do it for you? Because of all the words you put in this thread, the only thing you have brought up is racism. From my perspective, this is perpetual victimhood without any thought on how to move on from here.

Help me out here. Tell me why blacks with college degrees should be getting paid the same as everybody else if blacks keep graduating with degrees in low paid fields while other groups like asians are graduating with degrees in high paid fields. Be specific.

You're not the first person to deny white privelege. From Jim Crow, lynching, housing, banking and employment discrimination to modern police violence and the war on [STRIKE]drugs[/STRIKE] black people up until today when white nationalists are making love to politicians the resounding chorus has been "I don't see it. I don't get it. You're just making it up. You just wanna play victim." Since the founding of this country racial bigotry has been A] engrained throughout the fibers of every single institution and B] denied by the masses, and in fact white people who stood up to it were subject to more or less the same treatment as black people.

I know this script. I know what you're going to say before you say it. And more importantly I know WHY you're going to say it. I know the motivation for denying something that is so documented it's practically a fucking science and it's all based on one simple dishonest notion-- that a white man's opinion on the black American experience IS valid while the actual voices of black America are NOT.

 

[peeonme]

You "haven't seen it"? Would you recognize it if you did see it? I've seen it - and well PAST the 60s. Just because you can see does not mean that you can recognize. That's a pretty absurd statement to make. Even if you were Black. In fact, if you WERE Black, it would mean you had a problem recognizing reality, so far off the mark is that statement.
In fact, where do people GET the idea that, simply because THEY haven't seen it, it doesn't exist?? Isn't that what the President of the US believes, too? That Russia and Putin did not interfere in our election process? "He said he didn't do it." I'm afraid your statement runs along those lines. It's understandable you wouldn't recognize it, though. Not part of your everyday life.

my post read: Could you give some examples of this active discrimination? I know that profiling is a problem, perhaps the biggest problem. When it comes to housing and employment I haven't seen it since the late 60's. As for the title of this thread, I read the article in the link. I didn't see a comparison of 'white drop outs' and 'black college grads' in it.

As is par for the course, you used a partial quote and ran with it out of context. I asked a question of a member from Canada, I asked for examples of the discrimination that he referred to, I if you read it, said the I knew that profiling was a problem. I also said the I haven't seen housing and employment discrimination since the late 60's, I sold real estate in the Detroit suburbs in the 80's, if a person of what ever ethnic background wanted to purchase a home in any area the doors were open. I saw employment discrimination in the late 60's at a fast food place where I worked, my boss threw out applications of blacks and disabled people, this is no longer the case.
So, no, I haven't seen it since then.
As for the thread title, is it a concession? I mean really, a black college grad. can't make the same money as a white drop out? It says 3x the wealth, what are they studying in college? As I said, I asked for examples, from the poster from Canada. What I get is a bunch of bull shit accusations based upon a partial quote.

 

[bankside]

You're not the first person to deny white privelege. From Jim Crow, lynching, housing, banking and employment discrimination to modern police violence and the war on [STRIKE]drugs[/STRIKE] black people up until today when white nationalists are making love to politicians the resounding chorus has been "I don't see it. I don't get it. You're just making it up. You just wanna play victim." Since the founding of this country racial bigotry has been A] engrained throughout the fibers of every single institution and B] denied by the masses, and in fact white people who stood up to it were subject to more or less the same treatment as black people.

I know this script. I know what you're going to say before you say it. And more importantly I know WHY you're going to say it. I know the motivation for denying something that is so documented it's practically a fucking science and it's all based on one simple dishonest notion-- that a white man's opinion on the black American experience IS valid while the actual voices of black America are NOT.

Anyone’s experience is an actual thing that actually happened and reality doesn’t care much about opinion.

Your opinions are not about what happened to you, or what happened to other black people. Your opinions are all about white people! What they think, and why they think it, or what they want to do to black people or say about them or why. You think you have all the answers and god help anyone who questions you. And those opinions are so limited, all so far removed from reality that it would be somewhere between sad and eye-rolling. Except for the fact that it’s a lot harder to lift all of us into an equal playing field while unreal opinions like yours dominate the discussion, and give the likes of Trump an easy ride in the election.

 

[bankside]

You're not the first person to deny white privelege. From Jim Crow, lynching, housing, banking and employment discrimination to modern police violence and the war on [STRIKE]drugs[/STRIKE] black people up until today when white nationalists are making love to politicians the resounding chorus has been "I don't see it. I don't get it. You're just making it up. You just wanna play victim." Since the founding of this country racial bigotry has been A] engrained throughout the fibers of every single institution and B] denied by the masses, and in fact white people who stood up to it were subject to more or less the same treatment as black people.

I know this script. I know what you're going to say before you say it. And more importantly I know WHY you're going to say it. I know the motivation for denying something that is so documented it's practically a fucking science and it's all based on one simple dishonest notion-- that a white man's opinion on the black American experience IS valid while the actual voices of black America are NOT.

Follow along: lynching really happened in the US, almost exclusively to black people. That wasn’t “white privilege” for whites, it was **racism** for blacks. Making it through the day without getting strung up by a mob isn’t a **privilege** ffs. It isn’t a special perk like seniors discount or frequent flyer points. Everybody has a **right** to better than that. The lynchings that happened mostly to black people through US history were as bad as what happened inside concentration camps during the holocaust. Same techniques. Same level of justice.

Red lining really happened to black families. People with enough income and willing to buy find a home in a nice neighbourhood with the winter willing to sell, and he bank steps in to put a stop to it only in account of race, really happened. And it isn’t a privilege for white people to be able to buy a house they can clearly afford. It’s **racism** against black people to stop them from buying a house that’s totally within their budget. Getting looked at the same way by the mortgage company regardless of skin colour isn’t some special privilege, it’s a **right** that any customer of a bank can expect.

We can do this all day. Segregated bussing. Access to health care. Separate water fountains. All real. You think I’m denying facts of history and I’m here to say that’s bullshit. My point is that all those facts are examples of **racism**. And that **privilege** is a dumb word to use for talking about those realities because it doesn’t add anything to the conversation not already covered by **racism** and it’s a dishonest and ineffective way to talk about political changes we still need to make so everyone can have all of their equal rights. I know that because people keep voting against it.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Your opinions are not about what happened to you, or what happened to other black people. Your opinions are all about white people! What they think, and why they think it, or what they want to do to black people or say about them or why. You think you have all the answers and god help anyone who questions you. And those opinions are so limited, all so far removed from reality that it would be somewhere between sad and eye-rolling. Except for the fact that it’s a lot harder to lift all of us into an equal playing field while unreal opinions like yours dominate the discussion, and give the likes of Trump an easy ride in the election.

Racial inequality denial checklist:

-calling out racism is tantamount to hating white people
check
-you're making it worse, and easier for the likes of Trump
check

you forgot to mention that if I just ignore it it'll go away, and that black America would be infinitely richer if we just stopped playing Madden and got jobs [the same jobs we're admittedly denied if our names are too black]

No one who denies the US legacy of inequality is going to preach to me about reality. The US didn't even admit to this until the advent of media and mass communications gave the whole world a front row view to just how "fair and balanced and equal" things are. It's not too long ago black students had to be escorted to school by the fucking army because we were not seen as equals. And even now as black men are rotting in prison under policies that the US govt admits were discriminatory [at the expense of billions of those taxpayer dollars yall never stop whining about] you're trying to tell me we're equal? Get the entire fuck outta here.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Follow along: lynching really happened in the US, almost exclusively to black people. That wasn’t “white privilege” for whites, it was **racism** for blacks. Making it through the day without getting strung up by a mob isn’t a **privilege** ffs. It isn’t a special perk like seniors discount or frequent flyer points. Everybody has a **right** to better than that. The lynchings that happened mostly to black people through US history were as bad as what happened inside concentration camps during the holocaust. Same techniques. Same level of justice.

Red lining really happened to black families. People with enough income and willing to buy find a home in a nice neighbourhood with the winter willing to sell, and he bank steps in to put a stop to it only in account of race, really happened. And it isn’t a privilege for white people to be able to buy a house they can clearly afford. It’s **racism** against black people to stop them from buying a house that’s totally within their budget. Getting looked at the same way by the mortgage company regardless of skin colour isn’t some special privilege, it’s a **right** that any customer of a bank can expect.

We can do this all day. Segregated bussing. Access to health care. Separate water fountains. All real. You think I’m denying facts of history and I’m here to say that’s bullshit. My point is that all those facts are examples of **racism**. And that **privilege** is a dumb word to use for talking about those realities because it doesn’t add anything to the conversation not already covered by **racism** and it’s a dishonest and ineffective way to talk about political changes we still need to make so everyone can have all of their equal rights. I know that because people keep voting against it.

Semantics. And thank you for admitting that all of this discrimination I'm talking about is real, and that this all boils down to you being offended by a single fucking word. You did a brilliant job, better than I could have, of proving my point that it's ok to talk about racial inequality ONLY insofar as you frame the discussion in a way that doesn't offend white sensitivities. Because the most important thing when seeking equity and equality is that you don't offend anyone.

moving forward, I'm going to do a little mythbusters for you, black people style

myth: talking about race is the only thing black people do morning, noon and night

truth: we also care about the environment, education, prosperity, violence, our voices are invisible in all of these arenas but that doesn't mean we are absent, but you can go back throughout history and find grassroots black organizations dedicated to all of these [and more] causes, the problem is they don't make the evening news quite as often as black people stealing, killing or just acting a general fool

myth: talking about race means you hate white people

truth: it means we want to be equal. period. no more, no less. in fact, get this, we don't hate you. weird, right?

myth: it is possible and in fact easy to discuss race without offending white America

truth: it's like performing heart surgery with a Fisher Price infant-sized plastic fork and knife, and your hands are made of jello, and you're blind, and the patient is doing the Macarena, and there's an earthquake happening and all the power is out in the hospital. also the hospital is on fire.

 

[peeonme]

Just curious, do you seek to raise your end of the field, or lower the other end?

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Just curious, do you seek to raise your end of the field, or lower the other end?

I reject the very notion that elevating an oppressed group is some sort of affront to the other. We don't want YOUR slice of the pie, we want our own. And don't waste your time trying to convince me there's only one slice left. This is diversion tactic number 57B-- pretend that giving blacks equality inherently makes whites unequal. The breeders tried that with gay marriage. It didn't stick then and it ain't stickin now boo.

 

[Dominus]

I reject the very notion that elevating an oppressed group is some sort of affront to the other. We don't want YOUR slice of the pie, we want our own. And don't waste your time trying to convince me there's only one slice left. This is diversion tactic number 57B-- pretend that giving blacks equality inherently makes whites unequal. The breeders tried that with gay marriage. It didn't stick then and it ain't stickin now boo.

Still not answering the fact I pointed out that black college students overwhelmingly pick majors for low paying fields. Instead of crying racism, why not try to come up with a way to promote high paying fields to black students?

You're seeking equality of outcome when we ought to be seeking equality of opportunity. How the hell do we get equal outcome between multiple groups of people if one particular group keeps overwhelmingly choose low paying fields?

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

You're seeking equality of outcome when we ought to be seeking equality of opportunity. How the hell do we get equal outcome between multiple groups of people if one particular group keeps overwhelmingly choose low paying fields?

I don't care what facts you point out. I ignore it just like you ignore the 55 kazillion facts that prove beyond any reasonable doubt that there is still residual racism woven all throughout this country that manifests itself in infinite ways. This is how you are trained. Deny it. Deflect the blame. It's black people's fault we aren't as wealthy because we're choosing the wrong majors. I wish you could see how hard I'm laughing that you actually think that shit's gonna fly.

Ok folks, we can all go home, the US is running just as it should, back people are disproportionately poor because they don't study lucrative fields. Thank God you came along to figure it out for us. DM me your first and last name so I can submit your nomination to the Nobel committee.