The rise of White Nationalism

[Kabluey]

I think a major part of white nationalism in the modern context is its accompanying denialism.
People whispering racial slurs, but then suddenly denying ever saying such things when challenged.

Personally I think that's better than those same people openly shouting it in the streets and in the living room. Because that's when people driven by their fear and hatred start burning books.

 

[kallipolis]

When i watch American Television,
i keep hearing "American is the best country in the world" is abit Nationalistic.
Also the shouting chanting "USA USA USA ... " is abit much.

I am a big fan of Chinese martial arts movies that project similar nationalistic themes, often identifying foreigners responsible for most of China's disasters.

Nationalistic shrill is not confined to the United States...

 

[kallipolis]

I think a major part of white nationalism in the modern context is its accompanying denialism.
People whispering racial slurs, but then suddenly denying ever saying such things when challenged.

Personally I think that's better than those same people openly shouting it in the streets and in the living room. Because that's when people driven by their fear and hatred start burning books.

We have our local (Greek) version of Neo-Nazi thugs (The Golden Dawn) represented in parliament...however, they have been out-manouvered by democratic conservative movements that use constitutional, and peaceful means to influence political debate, ensuring that our Neo Nazis have been reduced to representing a tiny element of the electorate.

During economic crises there will always be a resurgence in nationalistic rhetoric that pretends to represent the remedy for a nation's ills.

In the United States the nation's institutions are sufficiently robust to ensure that extremists never gain the upper hand.

It appears to me that many of Trump's most formidable opponents are also members of the Republican Party.

 

[kallipolis]

The easiest and best and only remedy to this nonsense is to go back the post-racial, human-rights-based, global citizen, individualist identity that prevailed in the post-war world order. One of the biggest stumbling blocks to that approach is "progressive" identity politics that has festered and expanded in the last 15 years.

While accepting that political correctness can be over done there is much to be celebrated by minorities such as gay men, and women when understanding that marriage rights for same sex couples is now a fact of life in many Western countries, while also recognising that employment discrimination against people, the result of their sexual orientation is now illegal represents the sort of progress that the immediate post Second World War years heralded in celebration of freedom from the inhumane treatment enforced on human beings by Nazi regimes.

 

[kallipolis]

While I despair at the levels of violence we are experiencing in Greece between rival political factions it is noteworthy that one of our Neo-Nazi (The Golden Dawn) members of parliament was "roughed up" by a gang of anarchists, pay back for Golden Dawn supporters inflicting their violence on innocent members of minority groups.

As you sow, so you shall reap.

http://www.ekathimerini.com/213893/...roup-claims-attack-on-golden-dawn-mp-germenis

I quote:

In a statement posted online, the anarchists said they happened upon Germenis by chance in a café in Maroussi and that tensions escalated when it transpired that the neonazi MP had a gun on him and apparently went to reach for it.In the statement, the anarchists said they approached Germenis chanting anti-fascist slogans and calling on him and his companions to leave the café. He refused and made to pull out a gun from behind his back, they said, prompting the attack.

 

[HoodedRat]

The easiest and best and only remedy to this nonsense is to go back the post-racial, human-rights-based, global citizen, individualist identity that prevailed in the post-war world order. One of the biggest stumbling blocks to that approach is "progressive" identity politics that has festered and expanded in the last 15 years.

This. It is all so negative and divisive and retrogressive. A massive backward step for equality amongst humanity.

Add intersectionality to the mix and the whole thing becomes ludicrous. I was going to give an example, but people are so easily triggered here I though it best to not risk it and be labelled a misogynistic, transphobic, racist, homophobic, sizist, otherkin-phobic, ageist, Islamophobic, cis-gendered, bigot.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Then so is the quote below.

No it's not, you just didn't understand what he was saying.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

This. It is all so negative and divisive and retrogressive. A massive backward step for equality amongst humanity.

Add intersectionality to the mix and the whole thing becomes ludicrous. I was going to give an example, but people are so easily triggered here I though it best to not risk it and be labelled a misogynistic, transphobic, racist, homophobic, sizist, otherkin-phobic, ageist, Islamophobic, cis-gendered, bigot.

This really does not happen here, feels like it is being a bit blown out of proportion. I know people like to throw around these things Willy nilly on the Internet in general when it doesn't apply but at the same time I feel people use this as a way to play down the fact that these things do happen a lot and on a regular basis.

 

[Kulindahr]

Next time Canadians vote and give pause because they are concerned that something up for a vote in Canada may have an impact on the United States, and you put the interests of the United States over your own country, please let us all know.

Give me a break -- the 400-pound gorilla doesn't much notice when the 40-pound chimp jumps on the end of the teeter-totter, but when the gorilla so much as belches on his end the chimp gets bounced.

It behooves the gorilla to take into consideration his smaller neighbor sharing the plank.

 

[Kulindahr]

If they don't do that, they end up as tenants in their own country, controlled by their larger neighbour economically and culturally.
When the USA has established itself as a world leader, it needs to keep its responsibilities in check. Otherwise it will lose its status rapidly.
Think about the diplomatic, cultural and economic downfall of the UK during the twentieth century.

Yes. The downfall of the British Empire had a great deal to do with that empire pursuing its own interests at the expense of others. The U.S. doing the same has led to many of its current problems.

Letting white nationalists have a toehold of power will only exacerbate those problems by narrowing the focus from the interests of the nation as a whole to the interests of a small minority.

 

[Kulindahr]

....

If other cultures and diversities want to be pushed and Liberals want to preach tolerance of those cultures, then perhaps what is good for the goose is good for the gander and since we want to see all colors ... tolerate the White Nationalists, as well.

Since when is there a duty to tolerate the intolerant? Are we also supposed to tolerate gay bashers?

 

[Kulindahr]

Again ... temper temper. You lost. Bitch and whine all you want. I was talking to my parents last week and I think I am drifting back more towards the Right given these ridiculously immature temper tantrums. Big turnoff to me, and I know a lot of other people. So congratulations on pushing the country back further to the Right.

When crimes are committed, let me know. Folks want to stage protests showing "white pride" ... I don't care and I think the voters told you they don't care, either. If there is "Black pride", "Gay pride", and all other sorts of "pride", I don't see how you can scold one group for having pride regarding their color or beliefs, and praise all others.

The country as a whole cares about bigger things like the economy, job growth, their 401K's. They don't care about Mickie Mouse shit like diversity, equality, etc. any more, in case you didn't get the message this past election. In many ways, we have it yet are still bitching about it.

If crimes are committed in the name of "nationalism", the police will handle it. Until then, stop the fucking whining and move on to other more important topics the majority of the country cares about.

White Pride is not the same as white nationalism. The former is indeed just like gay pride, Black pride, etc., but the latter holds that only whites are really part of the nation. When that rears its ugly head, the thing to do is not tolerate it, but be alert that it doesn't go beyond talk.

And the fact is that it's already gone beyond talk here and there, so people are justified in being concerned for the future of the country.

 

[rareboy]

Since when is there a duty to tolerate the intolerant? Are we also supposed to tolerate gay bashers?

Precisely.

MW makes an appallingly poor argument. Tolerated and allowed to flourish...it is no time before the racists make it systemic and structural again...nothing will satisfy them until all you have to do is show up as a white person in order to have it made...to have superior opportunities and even civil rights. It is the history of the nation.

 

[Kabluey]

Precisely.

MW makes an appallingly poor argument. Tolerated and allowed to flourish...it is no time before the racists make it systemic and structural again...nothing will satisfy them until all you have to do is show up as a white person in order to have it made...to have superior opportunities and even civil rights. It is the history of the nation.

It's laughable that someone suggests we tolerate those who do not do the same for others.
Tolerance doesn't mean being a doormat for those who hate you.

 

[Kulindahr]

It is a liberal epithet. I have never hear a conservative use the term. As such it is misleading when used to describe a supposed ideolgy. Like white supremacist, it distorts the truth. So why is it wrong for whites to object to the intentional destruction of the white majority and culture. Rather that name calling lets discuss the actual underlying issue. Are your intended replacement people and cultures superior to the white? Is there evidence that their cultures are superior? If so why do they come here? If not, why should we succumb to them?

I first ever heard the term from a conservative, a professor who had been a refugee fleeing the communists as a child. He told of atrocities by both communists and Nazis, and lamented that while the communists in the US still called themselves that, the Nazis had taken the label "White Nationalist" to cover their identity.

BTW, your very idea that culture = skin color is vile. The Roman Empire was more enlightened than you are on that subject!

 

[Kulindahr]

I aked you a question about your position. Why isn't the replacement of one people by another ethnic nationalism? Please tell is what you think white nationalism is and why it is wrong? I say it is a liberal epithet for their characterization of a what they want you to believe about conservatives. I aked you to put aside the name calling and discuss the actual underlying issues.
Why is it OK for a government to replace one people with another but wrong for the victims to object?

As a libertarian I rejoice that my home town is no longer pure white, for the simple reason that sharing the town with others is a lesson in "all men are created equal", and an opportunity for people to learn that liberty is for all.

You'd probably call this "replacement" of whites, when all it is is sharing the town with other human beings. Replacement was done by the ancient Assyrians, literally moving entire villages from one part of their empire to another in order to put "trustworthy" subjects amid the newly conquered, and spread the newly conquered around among the well-subjugated. So unless you have evidence that whites are being forcefully moved from one location to another and their property given to non-whites, the proper thing to do is -- to be as polite as I can manage -- STFU.

 

[Kulindahr]

I think a major part of white nationalism in the modern context is its accompanying denialism.
People whispering racial slurs, but then suddenly denying ever saying such things when challenged.

Personally I think that's better than those same people openly shouting it in the streets and in the living room. Because that's when people driven by their fear and hatred start burning books.

White nationalism as we see it today arises from fears that what ben alleges is really happening, and those fears come from the fact that tidy little worlds are being disrupted by change in the world. Change ca give the feeling of powerlessness, and when one is accustomed to believing he has the power, there is anger.

 

[Kulindahr]

The easiest and best and only remedy to this nonsense is to go back the post-racial, human-rights-based, global citizen, individualist identity that prevailed in the post-war world order. One of the biggest stumbling blocks to that approach is "progressive" identity politics that has festered and expanded in the last 15 years.

Well put.

 

[rareboy]

As a libertarian I rejoice that my home town is no longer pure white, for the simple reason that sharing the town with others is a lesson in "all men are created equal", and an opportunity for people to learn that liberty is for all.

You'd probably call this "replacement" of whites, when all it is is sharing the town with other human beings. Replacement was done by the ancient Assyrians, literally moving entire villages from one part of their empire to another in order to put "trustworthy" subjects amid the newly conquered, and spread the newly conquered around among the well-subjugated. So unless you have evidence that whites are being forcefully moved from one location to another and their property given to non-whites, the proper thing to do is -- to be as polite as I can manage -- STFU.

Thank you.

 

[Kabluey]

White nationalism as we see it today arises from fears that what ben alleges is really happening, and those fears come from the fact that tidy little worlds are being disrupted by change in the world. Change ca give the feeling of powerlessness, and when one is accustomed to believing he has the power, there is anger.

It appears that many who fear change are those whose world's have gotten somewhat worse. And they're wanting to find reasons for that happening.

As ever, the issue of race is a red herring. A distraction from structural problems within the economy.