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The road not taken: yet another straight interest

spencer

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So after reading story after story of situations similar to mine, I figured I'd fess up and ask about everyone's advice and prior experiences.

I could easily go on and on and note that this is a long read. I will say this tho, there are some juicy parts so it might be worth it :)

Let's call my friend Bobby. I've sorta fallen for the straight guy that I've kept under my wing. He's got growing pains, college and what not and so I've helped him a lot by being there for him. I talk to him on the phone, text, help him with his daily problems. He get's upset very easily and he's currently in counseling for signs of ADD and OCD (it's his old divorce children's councilor).

Well since we met we got really close. He's a loner and doesn't have very many friends. He has a huge wall and I literally had to break it down by finally getting upset with him (yeah, sounds like I have gay traits) and said, you know, when you want to be real friends you just let me know. Well eventually he did let me know, said he doesn't let many people if any in, yada, yada, yada.

Well, he lives a few hours away and the first time we met (through the straight internet) he came over and I took him around town, showed him a good time, etc. We have a really weird relationship because prior to meeting we talk about sex and weird guy stuff that most straight guy friends don't ever talk about (personal grooming habits, masturbation, style, fashion, underwear preferences, dick size etc)

I even gave him some of my clothes that I didn't want any more. It was weird because I asked him to try stuff on and rightly so, he went into the next room to try stuff on. I was like, what's wrong. He said, it's just weird. Needless to say, I've broken him down, I mean made him more comfortable, because he went from that to sitting around in his boxer briefs (two pairs of which I game him :) to which at first he said wearing other guy's underwear is weird ) you can definitely see the outline and flopping of himself, gorgeous.

I did make it a point to hang out in the mornings in my underwear and it worked cause he was obviously more comfortable. He walked around in his towel before waiting for the shower to heat up. The next time he spent the weekend here, I was cutting his hair in my kitchen with clippers even.

Back story, he's a fitness buff and he's into working out big time. Back when we first started talking he used to send me a lot pictures of himself shirtless (let me tell you it's great). We in fact send pictures of everything from clothes we're wearing to food we're eating, anything. I haven't gotten a shirtless pic in awhile, but I think I have like a dozen by now.

So A LOT has gone on since we met. Each time I push the envelope further and further. The second time he came over I texted him that spied on him in the shower (I know can you believe it). I had planned to cause I just couldn't stand not knowing what his dick looked like after we talked about each others. He said his 7 incher was average and he was small flacid. I called shinanigans and told him I wanted to see it. He said, that was weird. Anyway back to telling hime, he at first didn't text back anything bad, and said, shit happens. But later that week we got into some sort of argument (probably because it was awkward and I think it was time I told him we were good friends and he said we weren't, that whole break down his wall stuff) and he said, come on, you need to quit comparing yourself to guys, you're how old? (it was the reason I gave him for spying on him :^o I do compare tho :rolleyes: ) We had a conversation before about how guys peek at urinals. He does not at all and he knows I do.

As an aside to you guys :-) , lemme say that he has the most perfect junk ever, not to long, not to short, hangs well in a shower without threatening you. It's symmetric and tailored perfectly and far far from being small in a flacid state *|* I digress.

Well as part of my pushing the envelope further, I told him that I've never seen HD porn and I was thinking about getting some. He told me I was weird. Then I asked him if we could watch it together. He agreed, at first and I asked him what kind, he said MILF porn. As it got closer to the date I was going to order porn and I told him, he backed out completly and said it was extremely awkward and under no circumstances is he watching porn with a guy ever, end of story. I told him is sex drive is zero and he could just borrow it. He said, no thanks to that, :sigh".

Back story, he has incredible sexual hangups with women. He's a V and is terrified of women. He has zero success with them, he doesn't go out or want to. He doesn't even masturbate all but 1-2 times a month (I know!). Right now, he has the self-esteem of a zero. I always talk him up, encourage him and tell him that one day when he gets confidence, he'll be my wing man and we'll score that devils threesome we always talk about.

Another back story, somewhere along the way we established that we are going to conquer a threesome together. I told him jokingly that I was going to give him a bear hug and he said he'd punch me in the face. When I ask him that I still can't believe he'd join me in a threesome, he says, hey you only live once.

Well back to the porn. I told him that I was going to order it and I told him and pretty much argued that he previously agreed to watching it and that he said to get MILF porn. He said, well you can ask me again but I still find it incredibly awkward. I know, makes me feel bad.

Zoom to the present. I told him I ordered it. To which he texted, oh lord. I asked him I hope you liked big breasted women. As soon as I sent the text and was scared he might just shoot it down. He texted back, "You know it" I texted him the title of the DVD and he said that was a good name. Then I texted him a picture of the front cover of the porn! He didn't look at it yet because he was sitting bitch driving cross country from a wedding with his family. Now confirm this with me, this was full disclosure that I was getting this for us for when he is coming down, right? And I already told him that I was intrigued about it.

Side story, when we come back to the house after going out, I put on the skinamax and we watch it. (he doesn't get aroused or anything, remember he's close to being asexual with the lowest sex drive for a 22 year old ever)

Another side story (right?) for some reason we have this ongoing fantasy where i'm going to do a photo shoot of him. He really wants to do this, I keep asking him what he wants, he said he doesn't know. All he knows is he wants to make it so that he looks tough. I told him that he needs to get a pair of fitted shorts. He says he already has a pair. Then I was like, my house wouldn't be a good place for the shoot so I suggested the gym. He liked the idea. Before I suggested he do two thing, a rated G photo and a Rated PG-13 photo. He thought it was funny. But recently when I joked that he could "wear" nothing but a medicine ball and I smile and I could take the pic in the locker room, he texted it was creepy. To which I texted, back, the whole thing can either be creepy or funny. He texted back, "I vote funny". so I guess we're back on to that too.

So one more thing about the porn. I told him that I won't deny that I'm intrigued by watching porn together. I told him it'll help him get rid of his hangups about sex (which he's been opening up to both me and girls). That's when he said, to ask him again about watching it, he might change his mind. but recall, I told him I ordered, ask him if he liked boobs and told him the title and sent him a picture of it and he didn't bat an eye this time.


So there's the thing

Normally, a guy would post some same form of this same story and everyone would give the advice and it would be, leave him along, confess and chances are be turned down, or just come out to him see if he responds.

I feel that I've let my curiosity part loud and clear (with the porn stuff) and I'm going to find out this weekend just were we stand we me being "curious".

But I wanna try what no one on here has ever done yet, the road not taken. I want to back out and almost tell him completely why. I want to say, my curiosity is not doing well for us and I want us to have distance. I will still be friends and whatnot, but I don't want to make you do things you don't want to do. (we talk about that a lot, not sexual stuff, just stuff in general). And I don't want to continue to think that this is going to have a happy ending.

I want to do this to at least has a feel for where his curiousity level is. He obviously entertains everything I throw at him within his boundaries, so it's not like I'm intested in a homophobe.

I've been down this road before with and they don't end happy, so I want to tell him I'm getting to curious and it's not healthy (it may not be the truth). I don't want to spill the full beans cause there's no point. Even if he was curious and I spilled the beans, i'm so far ahead of him, I'd scare him away anyway.

I'm not out but I'm no spring chicken and I realize that if someone comes along that will actually respond back comes into my life that it will help tremendously with just letting Bobby be a friend.

The thing is, I feel that I'm a difficult person, I'm demanding and I'm challenging. I will probably lay my life on the line for you but I expect a lot. Bobby has been there for me in that he's great at dealing with my personality. We're a lot alike and he knows and sees it and thats why we're some of the best of friends. But I need this in guy that is available.

Any thoughts on what to do?

Really, I hope he's struggling with this inside and found JUB on the net and recognizes that it's him in this story (how could you not?). So yeah, Bobby if you're reading this just text me and we'll live happily ever after :) I love you bro. :kiss:
 
Re: The road not taken: yet another straight inter

Spencer - I hope Bobby sees and responds

take care,
Rand
 
Re: The road not taken: yet another straight inter

I can see myself easily taking advantage (even unwillingly) of a situation where someone cares about me and I would be willing to end a friendship (or at least say I would) to get my way just like you have been doing.

Your own quote from a previous thread. Defines the current situation.

This whole situation is just sounding no good. You're like an "older brother" figure to him, being that you're about 10 years older (assuming you didn't lie about it). You've been helping him, being nice to him, but sounds like there's just one thing in mind: Sex.

Hasn't he made it clear a lot of the advances are creepy? I would vote that he's not looking for this, he's looking for a friend to help him out.

But even if I'm wrong and he really is gay and maybe you could have some sex, the way he is doesn't sound it would go over well. You'd get your hookup, then he'd run for the hills in self-loathing (After all he's called gay stuff creepy more than once).

Doesn't sound like this will end well if you keep pursuing the sex. Wouldn't it just be easier to come out and meet other gay men instead of playing games with straight ambigious college students?
 
Re: The road not taken: yet another straight inter

So, in a nutshell, you don't give a damn about this troubled guy but you pretend to be caring and supportive in order to satisfy your sexual curiosity.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but that's what I got from the story.
 
Re: The road not taken: yet another straight inter

To answer the previous poster. I would do anything for him. I am going to help him and he can have me as a stepping stone and we will both move on. He doesn't need me wanting him and I don't need myself in a situation like this. So I guess if you look at it another way, I don't care for him, but I do and there's no real way to prove it to anyone.


Yes, I agree with what everyone is saying. That's why I'm on here planning an exit strategy.

That's why I'm on here askin if anything sees anything different than anyone else (cause I can't look from the outside in) (apparently not)

And yes I know what I said, that's why I said it (quote back from my other post) so that they could hear about my experience and take information for their situation cause they can't look from their outside in.

And finally, yes I have dated several gay men, unfortunately none of them worked out long term. All of them however were high pressure into making me come out, telling me I live a lie, etc and I hated it. Yes it would be easier and I'm sure everyone is just expecting so and I would probably come out when I was comfortable enough in an LTR.

In my gay life, I never planned to fall for straight men, I actually don't care to persue them because they don't give me what I want and I'm still looking for gay men that do.

I always wondered why gay men (whom i dated) who came out on their own terms wouldn't let a fellow gay man come out on his own time, just like they did on theirs.

It's hard being in the middle, not open not straight, both sides unwilling to accept not choosing a side. Gay guys see it as my hang up, my family sees is ok with it, but the religion aspect encourages me otherwise. And that is why sometimes I try to persue on either side.

Bobby and I just click and my previous boyfriends didn't have any staying power.

So yes, it's the same as everyone said and it sucks. And I think rather than having it blow up, I rather just exit.

I guess I'm going to continue to plan some sort of exit strategy. Sucks cause he called and everything is on this weekend (as discussed) as planned, porn, I even asked about the 3some, (he's still down).



Anyone on here mid 20's to mid 30's in Cleveland lookin for a friend or more, who doesn't mind a commited gay guy that's not out at work? I will be descrete just like I ask you to be and my sexuality is not apparent in public. I'm attracted mostly to masculine guys but really it's different for each person I meet. I like the kind you can take home to mom. :) PM me. Later guys
 
Re: The road not taken: yet another straight inter

Yes, they all knew and it said in my profile, "out to some." Actually came out to all my immediate family for one of them (was not happy about lying about where I was traveling too every other weekend or so). I'm not the type to brush anything aside. They know, that I'm possibly interested in kids, they know my disposition with my job, etc. I am honest about that in a relationship, if I hit a deal breaker, I don't string the other guy along.
 
Re: The road not taken: yet another straight inter

I wish there was a notoutinamerica series of websites, as opposed to outinamerica so that guys in similar situations are looking for partners can meet. Openly gay guys understandibly don't want to go back into the closet for someone.
 
Re: The road not taken: yet another straight inter

you come across kinda pushy and a little creepy. you make it sound like he's curious but it seems as if you push a little too hard some times
 
Re: The road not taken: yet another straight inter

OK, I'm not even in this situation, and creeped out! I hate to say this, but for a friend, you sound awfully manipulative. I can't believe he's been creeped out, and you kept it up!

It sounds pretty co-dependent, and you're playing off of each other's weaknesses.
 
Re: The road not taken: yet another straight inter

This whole story sounds so predatory... like those stories of older/pedophiles who "groom" their prey before going in for the kill... Slowly but surely making him open up to you...trust in you... divulge his secrets to you... all the while you are plotting and scheming to get into his pants....

Might I suggest seeing a counselor yourself before something goes horribly wrong.
 
Re: The road not taken: yet another straight inter

After reading the posts I've basically come to this conclusion: most of you are completely clueless as to what I'm asking and why I posted this story.

Meanwhile I know and admitted that I am I continuing to lie, I'm creepy and pushy, I'm trying to create something that's not there, I'm manipulative, I'm codependant and a predator and scheming to get into his pants. Yes, I got all that it's loud and clear that I am doing all those things.

HOWEVER, if you read further I've decided NOT to continue to do what I'm doing (meanwhile people hang on to straight guys for years and years).

I've decided to try to get out this situation (hence the road not taken) becuase people drag their situations and hope that a straight guy will turn around.

I've decided to figure out a way to not to do what I'm doing.

And I've decided to do this to make things write with Bobby and with myself. To do things the right way.

That is my post, that is my question.

My question is not to rehash the stuff I'm doing wrong. My question is for sympathy and for thoughts and brainstorming on how to get out of this with minimizing hurting my friend, hopefully based upon people who have had similar experiences.

Should I just stop talking to him? I don't feel that there's any point to tell him the truth cause he could just get upset and feel worse or beat the shit outta me or whatever. Should I out myself and try to be his friend?

I actually told him that I use him to get what I want. He said, a lot of people do it.

He actually likes his life more than he ever has no. It doesn't make it right what I'm doing, but again, I'm seeking advice on what to do to stop doing what I'm doing.
 
Re: The road not taken: yet another straight inter

I think you should be honest with him and let him decide what he wants to do. Tell him you need to be honest (suggest you are in a public place if you are concerned about your physical safety). Tell him you are bi (or gay - whatever you think will work best), that you want to be friends and ask him if he still wants to be friends?

If he still chooses to be your friend and understands the circumstances, then you may actually keep a good friend, he get to keep you as a friend and who knows what might happen next.

If you could be completely honest with him - I don't think you need to confess all your manipulations to him at once or immediately (therefore not getting beat up or upsetting him too much) - but over time you reveal your true self, then he can choose to travel the road with you or do his own thing.

I bet he has some idea that your not totally straight and this won't be a huge surprise for him. And if it a total surprise, then perhaps he needs some coaching in his social interaction skills and you might be a perfect coach.

Also - you mention a blow up or some sort of dramatic ending or exit. You should manage this with little or no drama (which I have no doubt with your skill is completely possible), you can set this up so he will either immediately decide to end your friendship by leaving the public place, fade out of your life by not returning a call or slowly stop doing things with you or be a great friend and you guys continuing a blossoming friendship and/or who knows a relationship.
 
Re: The road not taken: yet another straight inter

After reading the posts I've basically come to this conclusion: most of you are completely clueless as to what I'm asking and why I posted this story.

Meanwhile I know and admitted that I am I continuing to lie, I'm creepy and pushy, I'm trying to create something that's not there, I'm manipulative, I'm codependant and a predator and scheming to get into his pants. Yes, I got all that it's loud and clear that I am doing all those things.

HOWEVER, if you read further I've decided NOT to continue to do what I'm doing (meanwhile people hang on to straight guys for years and years).

I've decided to try to get out this situation (hence the road not taken) becuase people drag their situations and hope that a straight guy will turn around.

I've decided to figure out a way to not to do what I'm doing.

And I've decided to do this to make things write with Bobby and with myself. To do things the right way.

That is my post, that is my question.

My question is not to rehash the stuff I'm doing wrong. My question is for sympathy and for thoughts and brainstorming on how to get out of this with minimizing hurting my friend, hopefully based upon people who have had similar experiences.

Should I just stop talking to him? I don't feel that there's any point to tell him the truth cause he could just get upset and feel worse or beat the shit outta me or whatever. Should I out myself and try to be his friend?

I actually told him that I use him to get what I want. He said, a lot of people do it.

He actually likes his life more than he ever has no. It doesn't make it right what I'm doing, but again, I'm seeking advice on what to do to stop doing what I'm doing.

You have my sympathies. As you can imagine, it's a topic that's been covered many, many times before.

For what they're worth, here are some points from my own earlier posts.

To say the obvious, don't put yourself in any physical danger and, if that's even a remote possibility, you need to stay away.

An old hobby horse.

FYI there are many guys out there who lead gay guys (and other straight guys and girls) along. This isn’t always intentional or conscious, but they do it because it works for them. They like the attention, even the friendship and intimacy, the control and the results. Most folk have done it themselves.

The other guy in this kind of “relationship” is usually much more focused on it, burns much more energy on it and is way over invested in it compared to his “partner”. The relationship isn’t really about the partner, but why people choose to get into this type of frustrating situation, often in the guise of romantic love. Homophobia, fear of real intimacy?

There probably are situations where the “straight” guy turns out to be gay or the gay “friend” turns out to be equally in love with you, although unable to show it, but how often do you hear about that happening? Or, by the time he realizes he is, you’re his friend and sister and the sexual tension is so overloaded that it’s uncomfortable and just not going to happen or, if it does, the relationship is so changed that there’s a good chance it can’t continue.. Most men don’t need time to know or realize that they’re sexually interested.

Some lessons learnt.

Go for the goodnight kiss or hand holding or leg-to-leg touching sooner rather than later. Even if it's initially disguised as "accidental" or "drunken", it still sends a clear physical signal that cuts through the ambiguity or ambivalence. Obviously, not the thing to do if there is any chance he'll punch you out.

Keep up a sense of play and fun. The more serious you get, unless the other guy is equally serious, the weirder it gets for him.

Tell him sooner rather than later. If your whole life and well being turns on his response, it’s probably going to be hard to sustain the relationship either way. But, if the result is rejection, it's an honest and a positive move.

Unanswered prayers. Relationships often don’t work out the way people want them to. But, more than once, I’ve come across an old object of affection with or without their wife or boyfriend and thought to myself what a near miss that was. Part of the attraction of romantic love is that you’re not relating to the person as they really are, but rather as you would want them to be. Seeing them, usually years later, without that gauze can be a real eye opener.

It’s about you, in the sense that you’re choosing to get into this situation, rather than perhaps into a real relationship with someone who many not be such a romantic fantasy to you. Sometimes, you don't want or aren't available for anything more than the romantic fantasy or sexual frustration.

But it also isn’t about you, in the sense that the other guy is into his own trip that doesn’t have that much to do with you, but by whatever it is that you give him, emotionally or materially. I remember, in one case, before I woke up to this whole problem being surprised that the other guy took up in exactly the same kind of frustrating relationship that we had had, with someone else. Right down to being “surprised” when the other guy wanted more from their friendship.

Once you see the guy behind the curtain of this dynamic, it loses its power. Not that suddenly one becomes Mr Relationship, but, to say the obvious, it saves a lot of time and energy if you see people for what they are rather than for what you want them to be.


I wish they'd been classes in school to point out the obvious issues in this kind of relationship, e.g.

Firstly, the gay guy somehow thinks that the straight guy is being ambiguous or ambivalent or whatever and that somehow the relationship is going to spark into physical and emotional sexual intimacy at some point.

That just isn't the dynamic of how guys are. Most men know they're sexually interested in someone very quickly, just like the gay guy does, and they don't pass on sexual opportunities, if they come up. Not to say that they have to have sex at the earliest opportunity, but, if the relationship isn't clearly sexual in nature to both participants early on, it's unlikely to become sexual later.

Secondly, even if the guy were gay, it's difficult to move from friends to sexual partners. Because sex is about chemistry, aggression, mystery, etc., it's much less, not more, likely to happen with someone who's already your "brother".

Thirdly, many guys flirt up a storm for the attention and even friendship without any intention of making out. Gay guys do the same thing with girls they sense are attracted to them, not with any malicious intent, but because they like knowing that someone's attracted to them and they don't focus on the other person's internal expectations.

Fourthly, whatever he does, it's rarely about the other person. Most people accept no, or persistent maybes, as no and know that they don't have to battle to get someone to be attracted to them. Others, from their own family experiences or whatever, are so used to trying to win over unavailable people that trying to do that, and being unhappy, is the norm for them.

Finally, there is hope. Most people work out that they're putting themselves into this situation and do it differently. When you're in it, it always seems that the other guy has to be the one. But with hindsight you realize that much of what you thought he was was just your projection and sometimes, seeing how he turned out, you're even grateful that the relationship never went in the direction you were so obsessed with.

Sorry to drone on. Just my opinions, of course.

What you can do is to work on the only things you can control and change in the situation, which is your attitude and your actions.

You can continue to be nice to him, but try letting him do the running and take the initiative. Let him call you, set things up, etc. Most times if you just play the ball back to him and let him decide what to you with it, the truth of the relationship will become more apparent. Generally, that's that he's into his girlfriend, you may or may not be important to him, but he's not the one keeping the relationship going at the intense and very intimate level that you experience it. He simply can't place the same priority on the friendship as you do and the sooner you see that the better for you and for him.

One thing that helped me was to replace "him" consciously in my head with some other friend that I had no feelings for when making decisions around him. Don't agree to do things with him, if you won't do them, if he were the other friend. If you do that, you'll find you don't end up, for example, as a third wheel with him and his girlfriend at some event that you only go along with to be around him. You wouldn't do it with another friend, so don't do it with him. A silly trick, but it helped me shift my attitude and behavior.

At the same time, focus on situations where you might come across someone very much like him but who is emotionally and sexually available to you. That means doing the footwork in checking out gay orientated or gay friendly groups like gay social, charity, political, sporting, theatrical groups. Something that you might enjoy or want to do in any event with the bonus of possibly making or consolidating gay friends and introductions.

Also getting in shape and looking after yourself physically, therapy and discussing the issue with other friends can help bring more reality into what's going on with you and why you're choosing to over focus on someone who isn't available to you in the way you want. If you don't learn from what you're doing, you'll spend a lot of time repeating the same behavior with different people.

Having said all of that, I won't beat yourself up about him. He may be the best that you can do in terms of where you are in dealing with your own sexuality and intimacy issues. Trying to hook up with an emotionally unavailable guy is painful and frustrating, but the trade off is that you avoid the physical and emotional complexities of a real encounters and relationships.

He's a forerunner in your life, at a time, when for one reason or another you're not interested in the real thing. Obviously, the sooner you can move on to trying to find the real thing, the better your chances of doing that. Good luck.
 
Re: The road not taken: yet another straight inter

^^^

That post should be its own thread, and stickied. Amazing advice/insight.

"Crush on a straight guy and/or best friend. READ FIRST"
 
Re: The road not taken: yet another straight inter

^I agree, I wish I heard that years ago.
 
Re: The road not taken: yet another straight inter

An update fellows :)

Bobby came for the weekend as planned. We went out tonight and had a few. Well, in my buzzed state (he was drunk) I decided to grow a pair and tell him about how I think the threesome between us would excite me because of him.

Well long story short he said he suspected (as I thought and even wanted him to) and he said he was completely straight.

I asked him why he didn't care about what I've been doing and he told stories about how badly his mom treated his dad and family that it takes a lot more than that to hurt him.

When we got home we even still watched the porn. I'm telling you this guy's got the sex drive of a sloth because he didn't even get aroused. We stayed up all night talking about everything (he was laying under the covers I was laying next to him at the foot of the guest bed, both in underwear, he was wearin the pair I gave him :) )

I questioned him several times, cited examples of my manipulation, etc. He said, such is life and that I've done more in his life to help him than anything "bad" that I've done.

It does seem sad in a way that I did get final confirmation that he's not the least bit curious. He did say that he'd do a lot of things in the moment (double penetration, touch dicks in a mouth) . But I am super relieved too. I'm glad we're going to still have a friendship. Now I have to get over him, oh well.

Before I bid him goodnight, I told him that I'd help him get outta his shell he said, it'll do him good :twisted:
 
Re: The road not taken: yet another straight inter

So I guess I'm writing this more for me and not you.

I'm happy I came clean with Bobby.

Bobby left on Sunday, we had lunch and he waved goodbye. I know I'll see him again, but I think it's gonna be a long time. We had the best weekend together.

He said we'll play it by ear. He did text me all day and call actually. But in my heart I'm sad. It's tough to care for someone whom you have zero chance of working out with, especially when you hit it off otherwise.


He's still trying to get used to me being gay. He's actually a bit of a homophobe and originally it scared me.

I day at a time I guess. He's got a date on Wednesday. He told me the confidence I've given him in life (not from me telling him I'm attracted to him) has helped him and now he can ask girls out. So yea, it's tough.

Can't wait till the time when I can look back on this and just cherish how much of a great friend Bobby just is, sans sexual attraction.
 
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