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The Stolen Election, Part One: GOP Thugs Stop Recount

Is that a bad thing?

Hate is always bad. Always.

I dunno. I hate that our troops are dying in Iraq. I hate that our country (or any country) tramples human rights. I hate that we're gradually and methodically destroying our planet. I hate a lot of very bad things. Is that bad?
 
I dunno. I hate that our troops are dying in Iraq. I hate that our country (or any country) tramples human rights. I hate that we're gradually and methodically destroying our planet. I hate a lot of very bad things. Is that bad?

now we're destroying human rights

WE are

The U.S.

YOU CANNOT MAKE THIS SHIT UP

Please take the U.S. loathing somewhere else

it's so tired

Debbie Downer
 
now we're destroying human rights

WE are

The U.S.

YOU CANNOT MAKE THIS SHIT UP

Please take the U.S. loathing somewhere else

it's so tired

Debbie Downer

Acceptance is the first step, Chance:luv2:.

What about our trampling of the constitution in favor of torture, just for one example? Illegal wiretaps? Our government's complete disregard of what's happening in Darfur? I could go on, but, the neocons will stick with their denial.
 
Acceptance is the first step, Chance:luv2:.

What about our trampling of the constitution in favor of torture, just for one example? Illegal wiretaps? Our government's complete disregard of what's happening in Darfur?

But all that shit is fine! It's what makes us supreme in the eyes of the rest of the world.

What's that? We're not?

Gee. Wonder why.
 
I dunno. I hate that our troops are dying in Iraq. I hate that our country (or any country) tramples human rights. I hate that we're gradually and methodically destroying our planet. I hate a lot of very bad things. Is that bad?

If you let the hatred consume you, to the exclusion of all else, yes it is bad.

I think you are confusing dislike with hate.
 
Alfie, thanks for kicking off this thread.
I knew the allegations but thought they were sketchy, you've opened my mind.
It would be great if the major newspapers re-ran your source just prior to the next elections. Both parties would be concerned about heightened public awareness and might not resort to bully boy tactics if they knew the media and public were more interested.
 
Democratic facts are dismissed as "old news," "lies," "revisionist," etc. Either that, or when a point is proven, the righties fail t o acknowledge it, and just let the thread die. Now, care to start supporting your points with facts? It ain't all that difficult, now, is it?

I think you have that a little backwards there Random. Anytime anyone points out discrepancies within the Democratic Party or their behavior the tread ultimately falls into bashing and name calling. Like I said pick a thread, you'll find it.

As far as supporting facts your posting of the timeline supported everything I was saying. Your post. So apparently "the facts" can go both ways. Again I will refer you to post number 18.

General Alfie...who's trying to bullshit who here? You don't want discourse you want to incite fighting. Again just pick a thread
 
Acceptance is the first step, Chance:luv2:.

What about our trampling of the constitution in favor of torture, just for one example? Illegal wiretaps? Our government's complete disregard of what's happening in Darfur? I could go on, but, the neocons will stick with their denial.


yeah

we're fucking brutal

The U.S.

trampling on the rights of so many

I can't take it anymore - how can I live in a country that does this?

dude - if ur not happy to live in the U.S. - if u truly believe that the stuff u spew - u gotta find a better place - there's gotta be a better place

u and the 80 shit on the U.S. - every fucking day - with a new lie - a new 1/2 truth - u should be proud of what this country is - instead u smirk at it

and it's pathetic

I'm so glad in the real world ......................

u really need to find an island where u can start ur own country

ur own tribe

complaining about Bush's management of the war is one thing

u take it way too far
 
NK? Bah. Texas is a better place by far, I'll stay here, thank you very much.

Oh, wait, I'm not a Republican...



RA, your timeline seems to indicate that both sides fought strongly for the election (Gore seemed to start a lot of lawsuits for a person who just wanted "the people's will"...)

Honestly, while they say history is written by the victor, certain elements of history are actually pretty neutral, that timeline is such a neutral opperator.


What I get from the timeline is that the court system in this country is too confusing. ^_^



Oh yes, I'd like to point out that manual recounts actually were conducted, and concluded by like June 2000. Has anyone ever looked into what the final results were? I don't remember the margin, but it was in Bush's favor in the end.


Now HERE'S a question:

The court system, both of Florida and of the USA, got involved in a process that the courts should never be involved in. The culmination was to grant the election to Bush, who at that point had the most votes by all counts and recounts that had been completed (excluding those that gave ALL of the Green party votes to Gore.)

Here's my question; IF the recounts were finished and STILL gave the election to Bush, if the NUMBERS gave Bush the victory, would you still call it a stolen election?


...because in the end, in mid-2000, that's what happened (though the media did not report this...) Basically the courts pre-empted the process and announced Bush as the winner, when in reality...Bush WAS the winner, but it wasn't determined for another 4-6 months.


For an analogy, suppose you work as a police officer and have your pay withheld because that you are being suspected of accepting bribes (or something.) It is found several months later that you actually were not accepting bribes, were innocent, and the money is given to you. Now, had that money not been withheld to begin with, you would still have ended up with it, you just got it sooner (instead of having to wait until the investigation was over.) Some people might call it "unlawful" for you to have gotten it earlier, but in the end you really were innocent and deserved the money, it just would otherwise have taken several months to show.


Same with the 2000 election. Bush DID win Florida, so he deserved (by the Electorial College) to win the election. The courts just gave it to him early rather than having the nation wait until mid-2000 to get the final results. The outcome, however, was the same (except that Dems constantly said the election was stolen...but if he had clearly won it, they would still say he didn't win the popular vote...)



AND THIS IS WHAT GOT ME:

After 2000, people, both in the USA and in the world questioned the idea of an Electorial College, and how with the changing times (computers, anti-fraud practices for elections [for all the good they do...], and only having two major parties that run in the elections) we should use the popular vote instead. In fact, most media anchors were saying that Congress would probably examine that and consider amending the Constitution. Before the electin, people were wondering what would happen if Gore won the Electorial vote and Bush won the popular vote.

...yet in 2004, we used the Electorial College. In 2008, we'll use the Electorial College. What the hell?



Of 2000, no matter your view, it's unlikely it will change. In the end, the Republicans won in 20002, and Bush won 2004, which gave him his mandate (but the Republicans lost in 2006, which took it away again.) This is history. You may complain, but it would be time better spent looking to the future and making sure it doesn't happen again. How best to do this? Abolish the Electorial College. Gore won the 2000 popular vote, Bush the 2004 popular vote. Regardless of Florid or Ohio, the popular vote is generally spread by a good enough margin to throw out recounts and court decided elections.

If you want to complain about stolen elections, instead try to prevent them.





Oh yeah, and hate that is all consuming knows no friends and only foes. In the end, that's a very bad thing, regardless of what it's against.
 
That horse won't get any deader, no matter how much you keep flogging it.

The horse maybe dead as you say, but the flogging should continue for as long as it takes to ensure that such treachery never, ever happens again.
 
The horse maybe dead as you say, but the flogging should continue for as long as it takes to ensure that such treachery never, ever happens again.

Election irregularities have been going on forver, and talking it to death won't change anything.
 
Oh let's not forget that the Democrats wanted a recount in Florida as well, only they wanted to do it excluding counties that would be predominately Republican, and lets also leave out the fact that they wanted to exclude the military absentee ballots, ones that historically leaned Republican, oh and what about calling the state before the polls closed in the panhandle, again areas that are historically Republican. The 2000 election was a fiasco, with both sides using the law to prove their case, just because you didn't like the outcome dose not make the election stolen.

I was wondering what the cites for these were as well, out of general curiosity. If you don't mind, I had heard about these things, (as well as a point that RM had brought up) but had also seen them disproved (through fact as opposed to accusation, I mean.)

Just out of curiosity, I had seen thousands of different things about this, about Harris and Disenfranchisement, the butterfly ballots and the most disturbing part about how violent the people protesting the recount actually got. (as well as the names and faces that they were out of state politicians for the republican party, but that was from a video I had watched in a class.)

Its quite a thrilling, yet depressing story.
 
Alfie, you forget who was in power at the time (Clinton Administration.) If the corruption reached up to the Federal level, than it would be saying that the Clinton Administration allowed, if not endorsed, this occuring...which seems contradictory, I think.
 
Oh let's not forget that the Democrats wanted a recount in Florida as well, only they wanted to do it excluding counties that would be predominately Republican, and lets also leave out the fact that they wanted to exclude the military absentee ballots, ones that historically leaned Republican, oh and what about calling the state before the polls closed in the panhandle, again areas that are historically Republican. The 2000 election was a fiasco, with both sides using the law to prove their case, just because you didn't like the outcome dose not make the election stolen.

Florida law mandated an automatic machine recount statewide since the margin was so close. The Gore campaign called for a hand recount in Volusia, Palm Beach, Miami-Dade, and Broward counties because those were the counties that were having the most problems with the punch-card and butterfly ballots (and they just so happened to be strongly Democratic counties that were having those problems).

As to the military ballots, Florida law required overseas absentee ballots to be postmarked and signed by the voter. Several overseas ballots were missing these postmarks or were completed incorrectly, which means that they were invalid under Florida law. What happened to cause the Gore campaign to dispute some of the overseas ballots? A Republican poll working was filling out incomplete absentee ballots--which is illegal. The Bush campaign suggested that even though they were completed illegally, ballots from military personnel should still count. However, the law is the law.

Calling the state before the polls closed was a common practice in 2000 and past elections and it is based on exit polls--which have been historically accurate--and early returns. The party doesn't call states, the media outlets and VNS call states based on many variables.
 
Calling the state before the polls closed was a common practice in 2000 and past elections and it is based on exit polls--which have been historically accurate--and early returns. The party doesn't call states, the media outlets and VNS call states based on many variables.

I think his point is that a lot of people, once a state is called, go home thinking the polls have closed. Because Florida is in two time zones, this is problematic because people that MIGHT OTHERWISE HAVE VOTED did not.


As for the military and absentee ballots, they were votes, and the court looked into that because that "every vote counts" (at least in Florida.) Which is why they eventually allowed them. At least the ones that were already filled out and only missing, say, the postmark probably should still have been considered.

Note that a recount ALREADY occured (by Florida law) and the Bush/Supreme Court action did not take place until the Gore camp was attempting to get more recounts, and at some points there were reports of the Democtrat counties giving Gore the votes that went to...what was the Green party guy? Buchanan? Nah, that's not right... But basically taking votes from other parties/candidates and arbitrarily giving them to Gore because that SOME PEOPLE said they meant to vote for Gore instead. Then there were all the hanging and dangling chads...


Basically, they should have just had a redo on the election, but I guess they decided it was too much work and wouldn't be feasable or get the same turnout...it probably would have gotten far greater turnout, and from people outside of Florida too, which would make it really hard to get an accurate vote (the fraud that would have happened is unimaginable!)
 
yeah

we're fucking brutal

The U.S.

trampling on the rights of so many

I can't take it anymore - how can I live in a country that does this?

dude - if ur not happy to live in the U.S. - if u truly believe that the stuff u spew - u gotta find a better place - there's gotta be a better place

u and the 80 shit on the U.S. - every fucking day - with a new lie - a new 1/2 truth - u should be proud of what this country is - instead u smirk at it

and it's pathetic

I'm so glad in the real world ......................

u really need to find an island where u can start ur own country

ur own tribe

complaining about Bush's management of the war is one thing

u take it way too far

I'm happy here, thanks so much for the invite.:wave: Now, once we get some sanity back at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, I'll be tickled pink!
 
I'm happy here, thanks so much for the invite.:wave: Now, once we get some sanity back at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, I'll be tickled pink!

u gotta strange way of showing it

sanity is a lot to ask for

try not assuming the worst ok random

try it once

u might like it
 
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