The Trump Phenomenon in Spite of Donald Trump

[NotHardUp1]

So, the more I read about the Trump base, the more I am not convinced it's about Trump. I'm curious how much of the conservative vote this year is attributable to various ongoing reactions to progressive and liberal trends during the Obama years.

And I pose the question for discussion more as a sociological observation than a purely political topic.

My read is that the movement this year is more driven by the following events than the style of Mr. Trump's insults and attacks, although I believe those are indulgences the Right is all too happy to forgive as it voices their resentment:

1) The perceived immigration successes. Despite record deportations, there has been a palpable turning on the Left to make the children of illegal immigrants less victimized. \

2) The rise of street people to record numbers. There are causes that range from protracted wars and returning vets, housing collapses, record urban rents, mental health system failures, cultural changes in attitudes about the homeless, and a national heroine and epidemic. The Right typically views this as the outworking of failed Social Welfare public policies.

3) The US Supreme Court's ruling on same sex marriage. This seems like a biggie. This is the first presidential election since that was made national law and policy. Conservative churches have been working overtime in depicting the change as the gone-to-hell-in-a-handbasket sea change. This is the first time to make the pendulum swing back, if they can.

4) The gender bathroom issue and the mode of executive order to avoid Congress.

5) The perennial warmed over servings of resentment from losing the evolution and abortion debates in public policy.

The list could go on, but you get the drift. Do you think these triggers and others are the real agenda and Trump is simply the only bus they can get on?

 

[pat grimshaw]

... the only bus they can get on?

Do you despise them that much?

If you want to get into politics— and I wish you would— you need to heal divisions rather than vilify those you despise.

 

[peeonme]

I see it as being analogous to the battered spouse syndrome.
The working class being the spouse and of course the government (it doesn't matter which party is running it) being the abuser or batterer.

We know that in most cases abuse starts verbally, perhaps with disrespect and innuendoes and becomes blatant with screaming and outright insults. This of course leads to physical violence.

One day the husband walks in and is ready to beat up the misses and finds her sitting patiently with his shotgun.

We could argue as to whether or not the worker has ben abused in this country, but, as a wise man once said, "if it's real to you, then it's real".
Most people feel ripped off, used and lied to. There is an underlying resentment, frustration and anger.

Consider Trump to be the shotgun. Most who support him that I have spoken to would rather kill their abuser and take their lumps for doing so than to continue with business as usual.

For the record, I'm not saying that they are correct. I am only relaying what I have been told by many.

I rarely hear complaints about gay marriage. The shit did hit the fan about bathrooms, it was a fear campaign.
Immigration is one that I hear a lot about, no one is looking at how many have been deported, people seem to have fear of refugees coming to our country and reeking havoc as has been done in other nations.

 

[rareboy]

Sociopathic narcissists never have any trouble dragging weak people along with them.

 

[Telstra]

The people who support Trump think trump speaks for them.
Remember trump said "I am your voicesssssssssss"

 

[NotHardUp1]

At the time I started the thread, I hadn't heard the news about Trump's audio released. I think it makes my thread moot. He's going to be forced out. His Teflon is about to peel like a bad sunburn.

I believe no matter how the GOP leaders did the calculus, he was going to be an ongoing embarrassment that would never stop ruining them by association. He was scuttled using his own explosives.

The recordings would not have brought him down if he had been elected. They will as a candidate.

 

[mikey3000]

Any yet Hilary's lies, felonies, destruction of evidence and trail of bodies doesn't? That is what should scare you. Remember, with all the money the Clinton foundation is accepting from foreign nations, she will be indebted to them. Trump won't.

Trump's flaws are just words; no one got hurt, no one died. He has an eye for women, so what? About 99% of men (gay or straight), if they had his money and celebrity, would womanize also.

Clinton is sociopathic, power mad, a proven felon, a corruptor, and a vile elitist who uses blacks, uses latinos, and sells out America every chance she gets. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[frankfrank]

^ D...ump will also be indebted to foreign countries; I think it is very likely that Russia is helping to bankroll his campaign. Russia wants D...ump to Make Russia Great Again.

He will also appoint people to the Supreme Court, and federal courts below that, to make sure that gay people are beaten back into the closet. If states start passing laws making it illegal for gays to vote, or allowing landlords and realtors, hospitals, etc. to choose to withhold services, a D...ump Supreme Court will CHEERFULLY rule unfavorably on any such unconstitutional laws which get appealed in their direction.

Gay people may need to prepare to die. It's not guaranteed, but even the chance this could happen is not a gamble that should be taken. I have no trouble imagining concentration camps; the Republican Party hates us THAT much.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Any yet Hilary's lies, felonies, destruction of evidence and trail of bodies doesn't? That is what should scare you. Remember, with all the money the Clinton foundation is accepting from foreign nations, she will be indebted to them. Trump won't.

Trump's flaws are just words; no one got hurt, no one died. He has an eye for women, so what? About 99% of men (gay or straight), if they had his money and celebrity, would womanize also.

Clinton is sociopathic, power mad, a proven felon, a corruptor, and a vile elitist who uses blacks, uses latinos, and sells out America every chance she gets. Be careful what you wish for.

I wonder how much you're getting paid.

 

[mikey3000]

^ D...ump will also be indebted to foreign countries; I think it is very likely that Russia is helping to bankroll his campaign. Russia wants D...ump to Make Russia Great Again.

He will also appoint people to the Supreme Court, and federal courts below that, to make sure that gay people are beaten back into the closet. If states start passing laws making it illegal for gays to vote, or allowing landlords and realtors, hospitals, etc. to choose to withhold services, a D...ump Supreme Court will CHEERFULLY rule unfavorably on any such unconstitutional laws which get appealed in their direction.

Gay people may need to prepare to die. It's not guaranteed, but even the chance this could happen is not a gamble that should be taken. I have no trouble imagining concentration camps; the Republican Party hates us THAT much.

I doubt that very much. Trump is a New Yorker and a Republican like no other. Besides, you have already lost most of your human rights with the Patriot Act. No one cares anymore what you do with your genitals. Those fears are baseless. The concentration camps you refer to are for the rebel Americans who know and understand what is happening to America and are willing to fight to the death to save it. You watch. Soon there will be a war like no other, both inside and outside your borders, no matter who wins, because you do know it really doesn't matter who wins, right? Both are just two sides of the same coin. You understand that? The divide and conquer team has already won.

I wonder how much you're getting paid.

Obviously not enough.

 

[kallipolis]

Trump is a New Yorker and a Republican like no other.

I am certain that there must be many in the Republican Party who are relieved that there is only one Trump, when considering the damage that Donny is imposing on the Republican Party.

Revelling in the spot light is a momentary pleasure for sooner, or later extremists consume themselves.

 

[rareboy]

Any yet Hilary's lies, felonies, destruction of evidence and trail of bodies doesn't? That is what should scare you. Remember, with all the money the Clinton foundation is accepting from foreign nations, she will be indebted to them. Trump won't.

Trump's flaws are just words; no one got hurt, no one died. He has an eye for women, so what? About 99% of men (gay or straight), if they had his money and celebrity, would womanize also.

Clinton is sociopathic, power mad, a proven felon, a corruptor, and a vile elitist who uses blacks, uses latinos, and sells out America every chance she gets. Be careful what you wish for.

Quod erat demonstrandum.

 

[NotHardUp1]

For those not in the two parties, there is no similar problem with the two candidates, nor are they on par. I'm a registered independent for the record, but to the Left to be sure. I've never voted to the Right other than in a mayoral election.

Mr. Trump's baseness IS the issue. That he is a billionaire presupposes that he has a closet full of dirty deals, illegal acts, untenable tax evasions, and other problems that go with the territory for perhaps most of the mega-wealthy.

Secretary Clinton's issues have to do with her being a long-time political figure and then an employee of the State Department. There is unquestionably a history that isn't pristine, but I have no belief that a politician CAN have a spotless record. However, having resided in Arkansas during Gov. Clinton's terms, and having been against dynastic coattails like the Bush and Clinton runs, I still do not believe that Sec. Clinton is either unqualified or fundamentally somehow untrustworthy to hold public office.

I have to ask myself why you are so invested in our election. On this specific issue of chauvinism, I have to wonder if the attacks you have often received here for your extramarital sex makes me wonder if you find the reactions to Mr. Trump's attitudes as part and parcel to the attacks on you.

And no, the comments he made are not simply "men being men." They are old school contempt and there is a significant population in the US that does not find them typical or acceptable, and an even more offended population who have fought for feminist gains that this flies in the face of. He deserves the reproach he is receiving from literally every quarter.

And look at Pence's face. He had been a supporter. Despite his neutral words, he is gone. It's clear he is not behind this candidate now. On the heels of his entire debate being spent defending Trump's form instead of actual issues, this proves the opposition's point in spades, and on a topic that actually is one of public policy import.

 

[opinterph]

I have to ask myself why you are so invested in our election.

To whom is your question directed?

 

[gsdx]

To whom is your question directed?

My guess in Mikey. I, too, am invested in this election because our lives are so totally entwined with yours. A vast majority of us thought it was just a joke when Trump was nominated. We went along with it, laughing at his antics. There was no way he could get elected as president... we thought. And then something happened and the idea became a reality. Those of us who were laughing suddenly became terrified. We saw very bad things happening to the south of us, and it didn't bode well for the future of the United States, Canada, or the rest of the world.

As I mentioned earlier in another thread (or maybe this one), my first 'American' election recollection was John F. Kennedy. I've been through many more since, but this one is the first to terrify my this much. Like NotHardUp, I find it difficult to understand why Mikey is so staunchly defending Trump.

 

[Benvolio]

With certain exceptions, I agree with the OP. As I have said before, I don't like Trump, but he was the only candidate wanting to limit immigration and "refugees". For many, it is an existential issue for our country. Obama and other democrats do not want this America or the America that was great in the past. They want a different people, a different culture a hodgepodge. Trump has been the only one on the side of America.

Other than that, I have no doubt that a 5 democrat Supreme Court will impose the liberal agenda and the people will have no voice. Specifically the election laws will be changed to favor democrats. A quick look at the election map will show that one or two more states solidly blue will give democrats a permanent one party federal government like Chicago.

 

[NotHardUp1]

To whom is your question directed?

I apologize for the sloppiness. Yes, it was Mikey.

Like NotHardUp, I find it difficult to understand why Mikey is so staunchly defending Trump.

I'm not finding it so difficult to understand, as I think they share ground perhaps in matters of personal ethics as they touch on sexual mores.

With certain exceptions, I agree with the OP. As I have said before, I don't like Trump

I'll take that. I believe this is true for a very large segment of the Right and its support of Trump. I maintain my assertion that he cannot survive this one and I am glad if it comes to pass. I've never thought his candidacy a joke, but the man a miserable failure at what makes anyone a leader. In like manner, I fear the replacement of him with a less offensive ticket leader, as I believe the Democratic nominee to be buoyed by a similar desperation of the Left to get anyone other than a conservative in power.

The Bernie camp and others may be quick to stay home when it comes to a non-Trump election, which could put the race in the very very close margins.

Trump is beneath respectable, but Clinton's negatives are very real despite her actual qualifications. I will personally have to go to extra lengths to vote absentee during my relocation, but I absolutely will and will cast a Hillary vote without reserve.

 

[TX-Beau]

Trump is the symptom, not the disease.

That began when the Right began courting the DEPLORABLES! The people who wanted Jim Crow and faggots crucified, wanted slutty whores punished, wanted Christoban Sharia law for the rest while decent, respectable women stayed home pregnant, shutting up and baking pie.

The 'Pubs have been winking an nodding at those people since Nixon, and never delivering because what those people want is Unconstitutional.

Well, Trump has stopped winking, and now they have to eat it, or run. The real Trump phenomenon is that - especially with this last tape, he's forced them to take sides. They either repudiate the haters, or they defend them.

Trump DOES speak for his supporters, they ARE just like him, and RNC YOU have to make a choice. No more winking, no more nodding.

 

[TX-Beau]

Those people are going to support Trump to the last breath - as he famously stated, he COULD shoot someone in the street (preferably a black lesbian) and they would not care. If the RNC deserts him, they will never get those people back, If they stand with Trump they push the 'Pubs into being a smaller regional party incapable of winning the White House.

It seems that a bunch of them are choosing not to follow, but don't be deceived, there are still plenty of Trump supporters out there and they are not going away if Trump loses.

Everyone who disowns Trump is going to find themselves primaried at the first opportunity, and whether or not that succeeds is really the pertinent question.

 

[mikey3000]

I apologize for the sloppiness. Yes, it was Mikey.



I'm not finding it so difficult to understand, as I think they share ground perhaps in matters of personal ethics as they touch on sexual mores.



I'll take that. I believe this is true for a very large segment of the Right and its support of Trump. I maintain my assertion that he cannot survive this one and I am glad if it comes to pass. I've never thought his candidacy a joke, but the man a miserable failure at what makes anyone a leader. In like manner, I fear the replacement of him with a less offensive ticket leader, as I believe the Democratic nominee to be buoyed by a similar desperation of the Left to get anyone other than a conservative in power.

The Bernie camp and others may be quick to stay home when it comes to a non-Trump election, which could put the race in the very very close margins.

Trump is beneath respectable, but Clinton's negatives are very real despite her actual qualifications. I will personally have to go to extra lengths to vote absentee during my relocation, but I absolutely will and will cast a Hillary vote without reserve.

Firstly, it was a rather wise move of you to reword your opinion. You of all people should exercise caution when casting stones about other's ethics and sexual conduct. Glass houses and all that stuff, especially since this is just a porn site.

Secondly, as I've stated before, my wife has dual citizenship, my fella is American, and I own property in The United States. The fact that almost anyone can register to vote without any sort of verification is appaling and I want to protect my investment.