poolerboy
Sex God
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I was responding to the superstitious concept of the so-called Law of Attraction derived from the book The Secret.
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The truth of Jesus.
- Thread starter Willie Boy
- Start date
guys nothing will be lost of you will believe in Jesus. If there is no creator & redeemer... Where are we? *a thought to ponder on*
Pascal's Wager.
It's totally illogical.
If logic lead you to conclude that there was no God, then saying you are going to believe in God as a contingency measure just in case hell exists doesn't get you anywhere.
Let's say you do that. Then suppose God doesn't exist. You get nothing.
Then suppose God does exist. An infinite being who knows all things would surely know that your belief is feigned and not sincere. Think about it, saying "I'll believe in God just in case" doesn't actually change any of the thought processes or logic that led to the original unbelief. It's simply a superficial notion of belief, not true belief. I could say to you right now "I believe in God" "ok I believe because I want to avoid any chance of going to hell" but that would not be a sincere statement since I have no reasoned thought process that leads me to believe God exists. I find it highly unlikely that he does. So it would just be words, not real belief. So God who knows all things would surely know this and you would still be condemned. You still get nothing.
In summary, Pascal's wager gets you nothing in either case.
AsianDream
PISS LOVER
Many religions do have a certain element of "scare tactics" in their marketing.
So unless you buy into their particular offering - then you will got to hell.
Pascal's wager is obvious nonsense - as pretending to believe in a particular religion won't help.
Deandbn
Sex God
Thank you for this warm hearted post. It's always how I understood the true nature of Christ myself, but more often than not I've found more Christians wanting to judge and ostracize rather than express the Agápe nature of Christ. I commend your efforts.
I'm a former seminary student myself and will confess to you that I've struggled all my life over sexual lust, which includes my attraction to men. I prayed all my life that God might deliver me from this attraction but God has never found it in his heart to do so. I even attempted suicide in my adolescence but have managed to survive all the self-hate and disgust that was imposed on me as a child. Anyway, I now just accept this as a part of who I am and have since rejected the futility that is the church.
I know God loves me and that's all I need to know!
Hey Bud, you seem to be like quite a nice guy out there.
I dont know why you would want to struggle over your sexual lust for men. You should rather pray to god to deliver this wonderful attration to you. Ask him to send round about 4 or 5 different good (hearts/personalities/looks) guys a week for a month so you can get a good idea of what you looking for.
By this time you should probably have seen what you want, and you should have a stunning guy to look after you. Just dont screw it up!!!
Yeah Good luck Bud, God lover you, and i am sure he can arrange a lovely person for you to love, if you ask nicely.
Deandbn
Sex God
Yeah Lewt me know how it goes RobertACE
bankside
JUB 10k Club
Good luck near the cliffs.
It was interesting reading the posts in this thread and points out some common challenges that are often overlooked when attempting to prosthelytize for whatever belief system is in question; it does not have to be Christian, it can also be atheistic.
You might ask how can an atheist belief system? Since atheist comes from the Greek word "a'the" meaning godless and is defined as a belief there is no god, one would first have to admit there is a god and then choose to not believe in him/her/it. If I don't believe in Santa Claus, I first have to come to some definition of Santa Claus and choose not to believe in him.
For the Christian the challenge is in deciding which religion would one want to prosthelytize. If you are going to quote the "Old Testament" (or First Covenant or Hebrew Scriptures) then one has to be prepared for living under the blessings of that particular covenant. The first covenant specified specific rituals that allowed a "people" or nation to receive the blessings of God. If they did not follow the specifications, the blessing would be removed and pain/turmoil followed. One also has to remember that the covenant was only good for the nation of Israel; if you were not within or from it, you were not allowed its blessings.
The problem with most Christians, particularly the evangelical sects, they like to quote liberally from the "Old Testament" on things like homosexuality. Their rants and beliefs have forced many to agonize through life and toy with ideas like suicide (or actually commit suicide). I have heard and worshipped with many evangelical groups and the problem is that the message morphs into one that says if you have problems and not every blessing from heaven -- it is YOUR fault. YOU must be doing something wrong; YOU must not be praying hard enough; YOU must be defective.
Now comes a guy named Jesus who is described in the "New Testament" or New Covenant. His message: Love. Plain and simple, love is the answer to everything. He is also mentioned in the Koran and some think many Hindu and Buddhist threads can be found in the words attributed to Him.
I find it a much easier message and bar to reach. To believe his message in his purest form, I was created in love by a creator (to me, my God -- the Father). I was created in a world that is not perfect. To me, the challenge is to see if the love by which I was created is passed on to the creation.
I have seen some pretty miserable people in my life; people who go through their entire life without love. I used to sing in the choir at my church and would often be called to attend one of these services so they had someone to sing and perform the music. To me it was sad that someone could go through their life and then leave without notice; I actually cried at one lady's funeral who was a pretty miserable person to be around when she was alive and there was no one there when she died. Yet she was a fellow human being and I always tried to say hello to her and smile (even when she called me a heathen -- which I think she was trying to be nice while saying! lol).
I remember what a friend told me once when I came to work in a bitchy mood one day. I had spent the prior two days of my time off painting the hallways and walls of our house. My son had come home with three of his friends and in the course of a few minutes had run into his bedroom and back outside and left a host of little fingerprints and marks down the freshly painted hall walls.
As I was sputtering, she looked at me with a tear in her eye. She was a lesbian (although not admitting it) but had two children who were grown and moved away. They rarely came home and rarely called her. She said I should cherish those little marks because someday I might just wish they were there when I finished all of my hard work.
As I get older, that is the message for me: what fingerprints, what marks am I leaving on those with whom I come in contact? Am I following the simple words of the man called Jesus to love? Or am I in love with just myself.
Too often religion gets things messed up by moving us back to the Old Testament of ritual and things that will "earn" or enable a way to find God. I find God in a beautiful sunset, in the miracle of birth, in the complexity of the double helix of DNA, in the smile of the man I love, in sitting with someone dying of cancer or AIDS and just holding their hand when no one else is there and medicine can no longer help their life.
What has kept me going through many difficult times is often hard to express and very hard for someone who has not walked my path to understand but it is a belief that there is something bigger than me to whose love I will someday return. It may be trivial to some -- a faith -- but it is what kept me going and sane when my oldest sister, mother, brother-in-law, and best friend all died from cancer within two years of each other and another best friend accidentally ran over and killed his little boy.
It was that faith that brought me peace as I sat meditating during those times. It was that faith that allowed me to say a "Hail Mary" and sing a song my sister loved in her ear and follow it up by telling her to "go towards the light, go home." It was that faith that brought me some relief when I was told upon reaching home that she had passed from the cancer racked body peacefully just after I had left.
It may be simple and it may not be complex, but it brings me peace. Each of us have different beliefs, different ways of getting through life and I respect each of those. Some may be very religious, some may be like the homeless man I see on the street shouting at the light pole. I'm not sure what he believes but he certainly entertains me often on my way to work!
Life would be pretty dull and mundane if all of us thought, looked, behaved, and believed alike. It'd be like a great symphony played by just drums or just horns. It is only when you bring all of the various instruments together that you have a sound to which you can close your eyes and form a smile on your face!
That's the truth of Jesus....love given when it is not deserved.
You might ask how can an atheist belief system? Since atheist comes from the Greek word "a'the" meaning godless and is defined as a belief there is no god, one would first have to admit there is a god and then choose to not believe in him/her/it. If I don't believe in Santa Claus, I first have to come to some definition of Santa Claus and choose not to believe in him.
For the Christian the challenge is in deciding which religion would one want to prosthelytize. If you are going to quote the "Old Testament" (or First Covenant or Hebrew Scriptures) then one has to be prepared for living under the blessings of that particular covenant. The first covenant specified specific rituals that allowed a "people" or nation to receive the blessings of God. If they did not follow the specifications, the blessing would be removed and pain/turmoil followed. One also has to remember that the covenant was only good for the nation of Israel; if you were not within or from it, you were not allowed its blessings.
The problem with most Christians, particularly the evangelical sects, they like to quote liberally from the "Old Testament" on things like homosexuality. Their rants and beliefs have forced many to agonize through life and toy with ideas like suicide (or actually commit suicide). I have heard and worshipped with many evangelical groups and the problem is that the message morphs into one that says if you have problems and not every blessing from heaven -- it is YOUR fault. YOU must be doing something wrong; YOU must not be praying hard enough; YOU must be defective.
Now comes a guy named Jesus who is described in the "New Testament" or New Covenant. His message: Love. Plain and simple, love is the answer to everything. He is also mentioned in the Koran and some think many Hindu and Buddhist threads can be found in the words attributed to Him.
I find it a much easier message and bar to reach. To believe his message in his purest form, I was created in love by a creator (to me, my God -- the Father). I was created in a world that is not perfect. To me, the challenge is to see if the love by which I was created is passed on to the creation.
I have seen some pretty miserable people in my life; people who go through their entire life without love. I used to sing in the choir at my church and would often be called to attend one of these services so they had someone to sing and perform the music. To me it was sad that someone could go through their life and then leave without notice; I actually cried at one lady's funeral who was a pretty miserable person to be around when she was alive and there was no one there when she died. Yet she was a fellow human being and I always tried to say hello to her and smile (even when she called me a heathen -- which I think she was trying to be nice while saying! lol).
I remember what a friend told me once when I came to work in a bitchy mood one day. I had spent the prior two days of my time off painting the hallways and walls of our house. My son had come home with three of his friends and in the course of a few minutes had run into his bedroom and back outside and left a host of little fingerprints and marks down the freshly painted hall walls.
As I was sputtering, she looked at me with a tear in her eye. She was a lesbian (although not admitting it) but had two children who were grown and moved away. They rarely came home and rarely called her. She said I should cherish those little marks because someday I might just wish they were there when I finished all of my hard work.
As I get older, that is the message for me: what fingerprints, what marks am I leaving on those with whom I come in contact? Am I following the simple words of the man called Jesus to love? Or am I in love with just myself.
Too often religion gets things messed up by moving us back to the Old Testament of ritual and things that will "earn" or enable a way to find God. I find God in a beautiful sunset, in the miracle of birth, in the complexity of the double helix of DNA, in the smile of the man I love, in sitting with someone dying of cancer or AIDS and just holding their hand when no one else is there and medicine can no longer help their life.
What has kept me going through many difficult times is often hard to express and very hard for someone who has not walked my path to understand but it is a belief that there is something bigger than me to whose love I will someday return. It may be trivial to some -- a faith -- but it is what kept me going and sane when my oldest sister, mother, brother-in-law, and best friend all died from cancer within two years of each other and another best friend accidentally ran over and killed his little boy.
It was that faith that brought me peace as I sat meditating during those times. It was that faith that allowed me to say a "Hail Mary" and sing a song my sister loved in her ear and follow it up by telling her to "go towards the light, go home." It was that faith that brought me some relief when I was told upon reaching home that she had passed from the cancer racked body peacefully just after I had left.
It may be simple and it may not be complex, but it brings me peace. Each of us have different beliefs, different ways of getting through life and I respect each of those. Some may be very religious, some may be like the homeless man I see on the street shouting at the light pole. I'm not sure what he believes but he certainly entertains me often on my way to work!
Life would be pretty dull and mundane if all of us thought, looked, behaved, and believed alike. It'd be like a great symphony played by just drums or just horns. It is only when you bring all of the various instruments together that you have a sound to which you can close your eyes and form a smile on your face!
That's the truth of Jesus....love given when it is not deserved.
TX-Beau
FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE!
Yes, but no. Atheism is a response to other people insisting that there is a god. Nothing more. There is no system, no doctrine, no commandments to follow. If no one ever claimed there was a god, there would be no atheists.
You certainly don’t have to believe there was a god in order to disbelieve someone else’s mythology – and while I’m sure there are atheists, who once believed, there are plenty who never did. Atheists don’t have to come to some definition of god, they just have to listen to believers, and decide.
Having a definition of what Santa Claus is supposed to be, does not require belief. We are all capable of understanding what believers in Santa Claus claim, without having to accept.
By your logic, we all had to believe in Zeus, in order not to believe in him, and frankly, that’s just silly.
bankside
JUB 10k Club
I see you've read all the pamphlets and received the Level II Conversion Training, Brother Beau. Good job. Your efforts will be spoken highly of at the next meeting.
bankside
JUB 10k Club
WAIT! That was supposed to be a PM. Shit.
(LoL)
Incidentally, proselytizing has a bit of a [STRIKE]stigmata[/STRIKE] stigma as a one-way conversation.
I prefer "exchange of ideas." Not all ideas will survive an exchange like that. I'm prepared to pay the price in giving up ideas I think make sense if I hear a better one. What else would people do?
(LoL)
Incidentally, proselytizing has a bit of a [STRIKE]stigmata[/STRIKE] stigma as a one-way conversation.
I prefer "exchange of ideas." Not all ideas will survive an exchange like that. I'm prepared to pay the price in giving up ideas I think make sense if I hear a better one. What else would people do?
