The U.S. is doomed due to the ignorant, selfish masses

[Drebin]

He's pretty. The pretties always win.

 

[RonR18]

Oh get over yourself. It was a harmless joke.

It's funny that you say the US is doomed according to ignorant masses, but you seem to be a diehard ignorant democrat. The party issues something and you start babbling and nodding your head like another mindless sheep American. Yes, the very kind that doom this country.

As of right now, the bill isn't going to work. It's had too much influence put onto it by the healthcare industry, lobbyists etc.

Don't get me wrong, we need healthcare, but I think we should take a little more time and care and make sure it is done CORRECTLY. Otherwise, will be reforming the health care entirely within another decade.

And where do you get the nerve to say that the Massachusetts voters were acting out of selfish spite? Maybe they were concerned by the economic ramifications of this bill. Maybe they were frustrated with the bill because of the amount of money its going to be funneling towards the private industry.

To quote you "every insured person who is opposed to uninsured people being covered should have their insurance revoked immediately." Well, guess what? "An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind."


And what about small business owners who are now legally required to fund a health care option for their employees? Why is their responsibility to provide for everyone- especially when most of these businesses have been providing liability and workmans comp- the employees are covered while they are at work, if they can't manage to find health insurance elsewhere, why does this fall to the business owners? Shouldn't the industry be expected to subsidize some of this, as they'll be raking in all the profits.

And, if you've forgotten, we're still in an economic slump. So small businesses, which were already struggling fiscally, are going to face the next few years with an extra financial burden.

Yes. I'm thankful that this bill is being delayed. It's for the greater good in the long run.

Hmm, I see that you didn't respond to the "life-and-death" question I posed to you in my post #39, which was in response to your above post. And since my response was fairly lengthy, I thought that you may have simply skimmed over it, and didn't even see the question. Thus, since it's such an important question, in terms of what it'll reveal about your mindset, I'm repeating it for you below.

As that's the only fair thing to do, in order to avoid giving people the wrong impression about you. Particularly in light of the fact that you consider the preventable deaths of 45,000 Americans each year to be something that's appropriate to joke about. You remember that don't you? In post #22, you said, "Nothing wrong with a little population control!" Which you subsequently characterized as, "A harmless joke."

Without further ado, here's your original comment and my question, which I've highlighted in blue:

RE: "Yes. I'm thankful that this bill is being delayed. It's for the greater good in the long run"

This brings me back to the original question I asked you. How would you feel if you were diagnosed with cancer after being laid off, and you had no insurance to pay for treatment? Would you want to give a bunch of thieving sociopaths several more years to see if their puppet masters would allow them to make the bill less corrupt? Or would you be willing to accept anything that would enable you to have your cancer treated in the early stages, before it becomes terminal? If it's the latter, then how can you insist on 123 other people dying each day when you're not willing to do it yourself?

If you decline to answer it, then I can only assume that if you were in the predicament described above, you would NOT be, "Thankful that this bill is being delayed." And that you DO in fact think it's okay for 123 people to continue succumbing to slow, agonizing deaths every day as a result of the delay, since YOU will not be among the corpses that are hauled off to the morgue. In other words, the delay is perfectly fine with you as long as it's OTHER people who are suffering and dying.

 

[frankfrank]

I already mentioned that Thursday's Supreme Court decision has doomed the United States to its CERTAIN DEATH. I haven't changed my mind, but the more I think about it, an ugly truth comes to mind. What do y'all think?

As many of you know, a lot of Republicans are doing cartwheels and high-fives over this decision. It's the best single thing that has ever happened to a specific political party at least in the United States - and, perhaps, anywhere in the world. This has helped the Republicans more than Fox News can ever HOPE to help.

The Republican Justices on the Supreme Court are very happy that they have a 5 to 4 majority. (Kennedy hasn't been a "swing vote" in quite a few years, I'm very sorry to say - he almost always votes with the conservatives.)

This single decision, unless overturned by some mechanism (PROBABLY requiring the very difficult method of drafting a Constitutional Amendment which 38 of the 50 states must ratify), will forever guarantee that Republican candidates have the advantage in Presidential elections. That will mean more Republicans in the Supreme Court. Sodomy and even homosexuality may again become illegal, because some right-wing group will eventually appeal some sodomy conviction all the way to the top and the Republican Justices will gladly make it all illegal again.

Sodomy laws will be the least of our worries if all this comes to pass.

The Republican Justices have just made the best possible move they could have ever made, to assure that the Court eventually becomes entirely Republican. And they're VERY happy they could serve their own interests so well with just one simple ruling. It has never been so easy.

 

[Lube]

Frankie, babe, you're depressing me.

Americans certainly are lazy and self-centered. I agree with the OP.

The Democrat in this election also shot herself in the foot.

The people of Massachusetts should've had a write-in candidate rather than elect a Republican, if they were upset with the Democrat.

And what about the blood on the hands of all those other democrats who refuse to vote for the health care bill (or the public option) only because they are more worried about re-election than doing the right thing?

Pathetic.

 

[levenshulme31]

Brown's election doesn't overturn the Democrat majority.
I can't see how this one seat changing colour kills any chance of health reform from passing.

The issue still remains that whatever healthcare reform ends up passing it will inevitably be so watered down as to do little to effect actual change to America's disgustingly fucked up system.

 

[BeMused]

The US Senate has an obstructing device called a filibuster, which is the ability for any Senator to hold up a vote on any particular bill by using his or her speaking rights, until 60 Senators vote for cloture.

Democrats had 60, until now. Filibusters almost always kill controversial legislation.

It's not supposed to be that way. This is the first time in the HISTORY of the United States that the filibuster has been used/threatened to hold up ALL major legislation in the Senate. Eventually they will do something about it. The Senate is supposed to require 50+1 as a matter of course. There's going to be real pressure on moderate Republicans to break with their leadership and negotiate in good faith, or there will be a movement to do away with or modify the filibuster, as Senator Harkin is suggesting.

 

[maxpowr9]

They need to do away with the filibuster. A simple majority vote works well enough. Unfortunately that will never happen.

The reason it is 60 over a simple majority is to prevent the exact thing that was happening in Congress; one-sided legislation. This country was founded on compromise and thats how they invisioned the government should work. Reckon it doesn't anymore but that's not my point.


I voted for Scott Brown for two reasons:

1) Martha Coakley ran the worst possible campaign.

2) The Democrats want to tax the place I work at and take money away from my company.

 

[frankfrank]

Brown's election doesn't overturn the Democrat majority.
I can't see how this one seat changing colour kills any chance of health reform from passing.

The issue still remains that whatever healthcare reform ends up passing it will inevitably be so watered down as to do little to effect actual change to America's disgustingly fucked up system.

One seat changing colour, and entirely fucking shit up, is because of one of the aspects of "America's disgustingly fucked up system." That particular legislative chamber (the Senate) it NOT ruled simply by majority rule, which it should be, but they have this STOOOOOOOOOOOPID rule that more than forty (i.e. 41 in this case) people can vote to bring everything to a halt on any legislation, and therefore the Re-Puke-I-[strike]Can'ts[/strike] Won'ts are blocking everything that they possibly can. They have stated that they want Obama to FAIL. They don't give a shit whether the entire United States goes down the toilet with them. (41 out of the 100 Senators, that is.)

There are two or three "loose cannons" who are [supposedly] Democrats or "caucus with the Democrats" (notably Joe Lieberman in particular), and sometimes THEY also vote with the Republicans to "filibuster" something.

Even more insane, the "filibuster" doesn't even NEED to happen. The THREAT of a filibuster is enough to cause all of the Democrats to cave on everything. No filibuster ever need take place. Why in the bloody hell don't the Democrats say something like "OK, Republicans - go ahead and filibuster. Stand up there as long as you choose - read all the names in the Washington DC telephone directory, or count aloud from 1 to 50,000,000 or whatever you choose to do - just DO IT and filibuster! MAKE MY DAY!" And the U. S. public will see you for the assholes that you are.

Until the 21st Century, the privilege of the filibuster wasn't abused nearly as much.

And of course, you're right - the "disgustingly fucked up system" would STILL PREVAIL if the health care bill is passed, because it gives no hope whatsoever of competition, it still allows all the insurance companies to get together and chant "Kum Ba Ya" and gouge the living hell out of us, and it gives Americans no other place to go - such as any kind of Government plan which wouldn't have the overhead of companies having multiple $10,000,000 to $500,000,000 per year CEO's and Vice Presidents etc. - and furthermore the bill FORCES everybody to buy into the corruption under threat of being fined or even sent to prison.

My insurance policy, and it's not even a great policy, costs me NEARLY as much per year in premiums as what I would be taking home as income if I worked 40-hour weeks at the national minimum wage. How can people even buy food?

If you think the corporations have too much power to write EVERYTHING to their liking and have the power to exploit Americans as much as they wish, the Supreme Court decision Thursday (Corporations can now throw INFINITE money into elections) has just given the corporations an unlimited supply of crack, or whatever the most addictive drug on the planet is.

Oh, right...it's money and profit.

 

[RonR18]

One seat changing colour, and entirely fucking shit up, is because of one of the aspects of "America's disgustingly fucked up system." That particular legislative chamber (the Senate) it NOT ruled simply by majority rule, which it should be, but they have this STOOOOOOOOOOOPID rule that more than forty (i.e. 41 in this case) people can vote to bring everything to a halt on any legislation, and therefore the Re-Puke-I-[strike]Can'ts[/strike] Won'ts are blocking everything that they possibly can. They have stated that they want Obama to FAIL. They don't give a shit whether the entire United States goes down the toilet with them. (41 out of the 100 Senators, that is.)

There are two or three "loose cannons" who are [supposedly] Democrats or "caucus with the Democrats" (notably Joe Lieberman in particular), and sometimes THEY also vote with the Republicans to "filibuster" something.

Even more insane, the "filibuster" doesn't even NEED to happen. The THREAT of a filibuster is enough to cause all of the Democrats to cave on everything. No filibuster ever need take place. Why in the bloody hell don't the Democrats say something like "OK, Republicans - go ahead and filibuster. Stand up there as long as you choose - read all the names in the Washington DC telephone directory, or count aloud from 1 to 50,000,000 or whatever you choose to do - just DO IT and filibuster! MAKE MY DAY!" And the U. S. public will see you for the assholes that you are.

Until the 21st Century, the privilege of the filibuster wasn't abused nearly as much.

And of course, you're right - the "disgustingly fucked up system" would STILL PREVAIL if the health care bill is passed, because it gives no hope whatsoever of competition, it still allows all the insurance companies to get together and chant "Kum Ba Ya" and gouge the living hell out of us, and it gives Americans no other place to go - such as any kind of Government plan which wouldn't have the overhead of companies having multiple $10,000,000 to $500,000,000 per year CEO's and Vice Presidents etc. - and furthermore the bill FORCES everybody to buy into the corruption under threat of being fined or even sent to prison.

My insurance policy, and it's not even a great policy, costs me NEARLY as much per year in premiums as what I would be taking home as income if I worked 40-hour weeks at the national minimum wage. How can people even buy food?

If you think the corporations have too much power to write EVERYTHING to their liking and have the power to exploit Americans as much as they wish, the Supreme Court decision Thursday (Corporations can now throw INFINITE money into elections) has just given the corporations an unlimited supply of crack, or whatever the most addictive drug on the planet is.

Oh, right...it's money and profit.

So are you saying the U.S. will become even more corrupt than it already is once the Republicans take control as a result of that "gift" from the Supreme Court? Meaning the Republicans are more corrupt than the Democrats? Because I don't see how their greed and incompetence could fuck things up much worse than the Democrats have done since they've been in power. After all, it took the Bush administration 8 years to screw things up, and look at all the damage the Democrats have done in just a few months.

 

[Lube]

FrankFrank is a very wise man.

 

[BeMused]

So are you saying the U.S. will become even more corrupt than it already is once the Republicans take control as a result of that "gift" from the Supreme Court? Meaning the Republicans are more corrupt than the Democrats? Because I don't see how their greed and incompetence could fuck things up much worse than the Democrats have done since they've been in power. After all, it took the Bush administration 8 years to screw things up, and look at all the damage the Democrats have done in just a few months.

What on Earth are you talking about? Explain.

 

[miketlow]

Am I the only one that is thinking of moving to Massachusetts?..Good healthcare and gay marriage beats Missouri 0 to 2.

 

[Telstra]

Wondering how much the insurance cost per year over there ?

If it is not cheap, i wouldn't bother buying.

 

[BeMused]

Wondering how much the insurance cost per year over there ?

If it is not cheap, i wouldn't bother buying.

It's not at all cheap. If you don't get it through your employer (which comes out of your wages at ever increasing rates), you have to buy into the individual market, which runs around $5,000 annually for an indivudule. These premiums are only going up at ever increasing rates.

Of course, you run a huge risk if you don't buy health insurance. If you get sick, or need any sort of specialist or surgery, you can kiss that care goodbye. Those medical bills will run from a few thousand to a few hundred thousand dollars.

This is why we need reform to our system.

 

[RonR18]

What on Earth are you talking about? Explain.

Gladly:

"Mort Zuckerman: Obama's 'Done Everything Wrong;' His Admin. Has 'Recreated the Republican Party"

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC1oRvzHdhQ[/ame]

"He's Done Everything Wrong -- Obama punted on the economy and reversed the fortunes of the Democrats in 365 days. He’s misjudged the character of the country in his whole approach. There’s the saying, “It’s the economy, stupid.” He didn’t get it. He was determined somehow or other to adopt a whole new agenda. He didn’t address the main issue."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-01-19/hes-done-everything-wrong/

"This Seems Like a Good Time to Review All the Damage Obama Has Done in One Year"

http://ginacobb.typepad.com/gina_cobb/2010/01/damage-obama-has-done.html

"The damage Obama has done to American foreign policy"

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2009/09/damage-obama-has-done-to-american.html

"On climate law, Obama has done more damage than Bush"

http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/2009/2009-December/017664.html

And there's a whole lot more where this came from. But keep in mind, I'm not for the Democrats or the Republicans, I hate all organized crime. Generally speaking, I think both parties are equally corrupt and incompetent, and are just looking out for their own hidden agendas.