There is a God or <insert deity)

[Apollo]

There are really only three things that are truely inelastic.

Food, Water, Shelter

 

[Apollo]

why shelter?

Can you survive a harsh winter without any shelter?

ok, sorry, the above sentence is stupid.

Given the society we live in today, if everything suddenly went to shit, shelter would be a very top priorty for most people.

 

[Apollo]

I mean, why is shelter inelastic?

When money is easy to get, people go crazy spending on their houses.
When it's tight, they demand less.
We're seeing this right now in the US with the mortgage meltdown, housing crisis.
People are walking away from houses they recently bought because they can't keep up with the mortgage payments.

but they aren't going to go live on the street. they are buying apartments or going to live with the parents.

not to mention, more people are getting kicked out of their houses, not leaving them willingly. leaving the house doesn't suddenly stop the debt.

 

[Apollo]

You still aren't recognizing what I was talking about. I'm an ineffective communicator. You asked how the economy works and the answer to that is the same exact crowd of starbucks customers I was trying to address.
(How the economy SHOULD work and DOES work is two different things)

You see, I think you aren't reading everything I write. If you did, you would know I never asked how the economy work. I told you how the economy works.

How our capitalist economy works and how it should work, are the same.

Just because you think the economy should work for poor people doesn't mean it should. The economy isn't for poor people, it if for people who know how to take advantage of it.

As my teacher said, economics is not a YMCA sport.

The American economy operates by people spending money they don't have. That's the people I was discussing. Beyond Starbucks, people are sometimes more obsessed with being seen in something name brand than with financial stability. People who buy name-brand things to be cool when they need to be preparing for a crisis. I'm aware some people can afford it, I'm aware of inelastic demand. I know how the economy should, used to, and does work. I was trying to discuss a specific group. Is that a better explanation?

Stop painting a broad brush over an entire group of people. Credit is there to help people buy things they need now, but don't have the money for it. Your expected to pay it back later. If you know you can't pay it back later, than you shouldn't be spending the money. Most people can pay back their debt, and do, and they help the economy chug chug chug along.

Who cares if people want to be seen in designer clothes. It is their choice in life. Humans are supposed to make their own decisions, not have the government tell them when and when not to buy what they want. That isn't the role of the government, that is the role of individuals, and if individuals want to get in superfluous debt than they must now pay for it. Or go on Oprah and see how to get the debt down.

Of course, I don't get what you are talking about. If people want to go to Starbucks and spend 4 dollars on a cup of coffee, than let them. It isn't even that expensive.

 

[PreTTy PeTe]

thanks god i live in a starbucks free zone

but thanks god we have 3 tim hortons........

life is good

 

[Apollo]

I understand what you're talking about but this conversation isn't going anywhere cuz you're only acknowledging your side. My side doesn't make sense to you because we're not thinking in the same context. The reason there is some other website is because you've taken what I've said about one demographic and applied it to another. I'm talking about people who have helped ruin the economy, you're talking about people who are above the economy.

Ummm, your side is that people should not shop at Starbucks when they can make coffee at home. I have explained quite clearly why that wouldn't work, and you havent understood my side.

I explained the demographics Starbucks have gone through, and you have thuroughly ignored them and went off on something I am apparantly not getting.

The way people ruin an economy is by not spending money. So if you mean people who aren't spending any money and saving every last penny, than yes, they are ruining the economy.

Actually, the people who ruined the economy are rich white people on Wall Street. Our economy collapsed due to the mortgage crisis brought on by stupid decision made on behalf on investment bankers on Wall Street. I can actually link you to the program that lays out how it all happened with striking clarity. You can be a drop out and still understand how things went wrong.

Also, one reason our economy is in the crapper is due to the dollar. Which is controlled by the Fed and international markets. Not regular civilians at the bottom.

 

[Apollo]

This is my fault for starting this mess. I was using Starbucks closing stores as a reference to the way people splurged and then receded when the economy fell down. Blackwolf is talking about rich people who can afford coffee. I don't know why he responded to me but didn't realize the discordance til I noticed we were discussing two different demographics.

Dude, this is how people all around the world work. Oh, and it isn't because of that really. It is more linked to a rise in oil prices which has an effect on every level of everything.

Peoples driving habits
transportation of goods
making of goods
processing of goods
keeping the lights on
paying the light bill
the paper you buy
the water you buy
the milk and soy products they buy for their company

all this shit is effected by oil prices, and it adds up.

oh, and i have to add this:

due to the falling dollar, it is costing a lot more dollars to buy the supplies that they do from around the world, including the specialty coffee beans they get from small farmers in exotic countries.

 

[Apollo]

I still don't see how that makes shelter inelastic.
Yes, everyone needs shelter.
But that doesn't mean that spending on shelter is unaffected by supply and demand.

Anyway, carry on with the other discussion since this is a side topic.

Supply and Demand will change what type of house or apartment they buy, and how big, but it doesn't stop them from looking for housing.

They will simply adjust, just like with food and water. While the price of a bottled water may increase, people may suddenly find the GENIUS idea[/sarcasm] of using water straight from the tap.

Same with food, the unbelievable rise in food prices are making people buy different foods they would have never touched. Isn't stopping them from buying though. But I guess that is due to the need to live lol.

 

[LiquidSky]

I go every morning M-F on the way to work because I'm half asleep and they have a drive-thru. I only order the large black/bold coffee. It's $2.00 which is only 50 cents more than the mini markets. On the weekends, I go to the locally owned place.....where the large is $2.00. Go figure.

 

[Apollo]

I already understand what went wrong, your 2nd not-so-clever personal insult is showing your character. You respond to people you don't understand and get mad that you haven't swayed the conversation.

I haven't once insulted you in this thread. If you take them as insults that is your problem. I was telling you the way they explain it is very very clear and easy to understand without a economics degree.

You're either argumentative or ignorant. Are you saying it's okay for people to run up credit and spend money they don't have? That's left no impression at all on the economy? There isn't any one single factor. If you'd seen the bigger picture in Econ you'd understand that it's all relative. If you don't understand how bad spending effects the economy then there's nothing you have to teach me. Stop reading Donald Trump's business books and read about REAL American life because average America doesn't work on Wall Street.

Credit is the way of life, and if people abuse it that is there problem.

Bankers love debt. They never teach this in economics, but it's how banks make half their profits. Well this and fees.

What bankers don't like is when there is a sudden collapse and an entire sector of people can't pay back their debt. Such as the people who bought houses on those fucked up mortgage loans. It isn't their fault though. Very few people buy a house in whole, they put it on credit which is called a mortgage. Same with cars. The investment bankers got greedy and were essentially giving away large amounts of credit to people to buy and build houses. When people started to suddenly default on loans, oh ooooooh, time to pull out.

Has it sunk into your severely narrow field of vision what I'm discussing? If so, let me know you understand me and if you can't, I'll be reaffirmed that you just like the chance to display your limited knowlege.

What are you talking about? Is this your attempt at insulting me because you feel I insulted you? Don't make me laugh.

edit://oh, and Donald Trump is a idiot.

 

[Apollo]

The only reason I can't overtly prove it is that your two attacks were passive aggressive. I've dealt with that kind of cowardess before and I know how to recognize it.

If you feel I attacked you go right ahead. It is what you believe. And no one can stop you from believing what you want to believe or see, so who really cares.

Calling me a coward was out of line though. I never insulted you, or meant to insult you. Of course, humans being as self absorbed as they are, it is inevitable. (see what i did there, i insulted you)

The part I've bolded is the group I've been addressing. People who abuse credit create problems. That's basic. Eventually that money has to come from somewhere and your exaggeration of the benefits mirrors Bushs' knack for spending imaginary money. Someone inherits the debt on an individual level and as a nation. They don't pay for it outright, they pay for it in ipso facto taxes and limited government assistance. You cannot create money in your mind. Limitless credit will destroy our very foundation if everyone doesn't stop saying "charge it." If you disagree, open your own bank on your principles and watch how fast it falls apart. Oh, wait, I forgot. Credit=inherited debt. You won't pay for it, but your great grandkids will. So I guess credit is cool as long as all you're short-sighted and care only for your own comfort. You'll be long gone before the shit hits the fan.

Finally you make some sense. You have pinpointed one of the reasons our economy failed.

I already have a bank account and a credit card. Know what I am doing? Spending my own money out of my bank account, and only use my credit card for emergencies. Well now, I used it to get my Zune, and am paying it off. Because I know I can pay it off, and I really wanted a Zune.

People have been abusing credit since it was created, and it isn't going to stop. And it isn't the cause of economic downturns. Bad business is the result of economic downturns. Economist would rather you use the credit rather than be "sensible" with your money. Because spending means a healthy economy and GDP. No spending means bad bad things.

 

[Apollo]

My understanding is that inelastic is more appropriately applied to demand for something like insulin. People with insulin-dependent diabetes must use insulin to live. The amount of insulin used daily is determined by their individual physiology, not by how freely-available insulin is in the market. They will not use more insulin when it is easier to obtain it, nor less when it is harder.

Hmmm...I know you never hear this on this board, but your right. I do find shelter to be a inelestic need, but in the end, you only half needed as long as you have the proper clothing.

...meh.

 

[Apollo]

So you've acknowledged that debt is continual as long as credit is. When does it stop? When are the debts repaid? Oh yeah! By later generations? Eventually this imaginary money has to turn into real money or somebody's gonna be upset. Unless of course we plan on reverting to the barter system. Unless this debt is eventually repaid, we'll have to inject a new system of payment because we can't all live off imaginary money. Credit doesn't disappear into thin air, it accumulates.

Good lord, get off it. You imagine how the world should exist, complain about it, and never acknowledge some things are never going to change. Especially credit. As we become more and more connected through the internet and with technology going the way it is, more and more people are going to want to buy stuff.

Most people don't overspend, and they end up paying off the debt by the time retirement comes around. Most debt people inherit is college loan debt which you are expected to pay off over a decade or so. Thats called good debt.

Unless this debt is eventually repaid, we'll have to inject a new system of payment because we can't all live off imaginary money. Credit doesn't disappear into thin air, it accumulates.

Did you know, currency is nothing but credit? It isn't based off of gold or silver or anything. It is created and destroyed based on the Fed with the buying and selling of government securities.

The reason we trust that our dollar system is good is based off that it is a medium of exhange, consumer confidence, and something else. I forgot the other one. But essentially, yes money is created out of thin air, cause nothing backs it.

If China tomorrow says they don't trust the American dollar is not trustworthy and a proper medium of exchange, and other countries follow suit, we no longer have an economy. Back to the ole' barter system.

Your first inconsistency is that there's one cause of Economic downturns. When credit is called in and people can't pay, well, I hope I don't need to finish this statement because anyone with cognitive abilities understands that our credit is someone else's bill. When all these bills go unpaid, debt.....nevermind, you know the rest.

Credit is called in the minute you spend it. Once you get a credit card and use it, the next month you recieve a bill. If you have online banking, it is called in an hour or two after you charge.

An exception is student loans, which are held off until after you graduate and 6 months after that. Even then, you are expected to pay it back over a decade depending on how much you borrowed.

You also ignore the tons of different payment plans you could do, negotiateing with the credit holders to lower the amount you need to pay back, blah blah blah blah.

You make it seem like the minute you have debt, you are screwed.

What? Spending money ONLY means a healthy economy if it's actual money. How can you possibly imagine a society that's built on accumulative debt? It's the one we're living in now, and it ain't pretty. Without clear regulation of credit and strict guidelines it's a proverbial snowball. Let's abolish monetary units altogether and live off money that exists in our minds. Somebody get me a Hummer and a fleet of pitbulls. My great great great grandkids can pay for it when taxes are raised to unimaginable heights and they're paying $99 dollars a gallon for gas. Thank God for credit, promoting mindless, irresponsible, selfish spending.

They are spending ACTUAL money. They are spending the banks money or the governments money, and businesses are happy. They invest more in jobs and improvements to technologies, and economies grow. Businesses doesn't care if the money comes from a credit card. YOU care that it comes from a credit card.

There are clear and concise rules about credit cards, and when people get one, they sign on the dotted line saying they understand those rules. It isn't the job of the government to tell people how to use credit.

WTF are you talking about? You do realize, that in order to get a car you are going to buy on credit right? Unless you are going to buy some junker car, you are going to buy on credit, and pay it off over like 3 or 4 years.

Same with houses. Before the mortgage crisis, brought on by forces outside of the housing business. You pretty much HAVE to buy a house on credit.

If people didn't buy houses on credit, we wouldn't have any houses AT ALL. No one will be able to save up $250, 000 dollars to buy a home. In California, the average home is close to $1 million. How many middle class families do you know that can come up with $1 million?


Then again, I feel like you are talking about the government. In which case, yes BUSH is borrowing way too much money and needs to stop.

Other than that, governments borrowing money is sometimes necessary to advance that country and help them build up their GDP to become stronger. I don't imagine half the African countries have enough money on their own to build up their infrastructure. I won't begin to guess how governments deal with paying back debt and stuff, but I am sure it is either completely straight forward, or a book bigger than Harry Potter.

 

[Apollo]

Credit does NOT equal currency. Currency has value, credit is an IOU

Currency has value based off of nothing solid. It is essentially credit.

And what is wrong with an IOU?

Huh? So because we're connected, it's okay to spend money we don't have?

No, because we're connected, people will be able to have access to buying things more easily.

How can you assume these debts are paid off? That's just nuts.

How do you know it isn't paid off? Are you a banker? Do you have access to the super computer watching over credit?

It's nuts to assume credit is going to disapear.

Yeah, cuz their goal is to help you, not make money off you.

The whole goal is to make money off you. Thats why they will work with you and your debt to ensure you are making mpnthly payments. They would rather lower your debt buy a couple thousand bucks than not have you pay at all.

Seriously Marley, use your brain.

No, you're thinking checkers, I'm talking chess. Accumulative debt is accumulative negative amounts.

No, you are playing checkers. You are making bold statements with little to back it up. That is evident in this post. Usually you never skip over anything, but before your last two posts, you skipped over whole chunks of my writing and quoted single sentences or paragraphs and went off on a slight tangent.

I am playing a open game of chess that isn't as carefully thought out.

Debt is nothing but negative amounts. DUHHHHH and you are expected to lower that negative amount. This isn't rocket science.

Are you smoking crack? Using credit as money devalues the money because ipso facto spending $5 on credit comes with interest and fees. You get less with $5 on credit than you do with actual currency.

Sorry, are you smoking crack?

Money devalues when too many dollars are flooded into the international money. Say if Germany suddenly buys $1 million dollars to do business in the US, that is $1 million more dollars available in the international market for use, and devaluation.

That is essentially it, but I am sure an economist can clean up the statement. Better yet, lets use google:

Devaluation is a reduction in the value of a currency with respect to other monetary units. In common modern usage, it specifically implies an official lowering of the value of a country's currency within a fixed exchange rate system, by which the monetary authority formally sets a new fixed rate with respect to a foreign reference currency. In contrast, (currency) depreciation is most often used for the unofficial decrease in the exchange rate in a floating exchange rate system. The opposite of devaluation is called revaluation.

It's funny you think businesses care if the money comes from credit. When I was working at Target and Randalls, they didn't seem to give half a shit when someone used a credit card.

That's why they make the TOC so complicated, because they don't want you to know that you get less for credit than you do for currency.

yes, it's "ALL ONE BIG CONSPIRACY". geez

So the government can't overspend but we can? I thought ovespending on credit was good, right?

The government can borrow money, as I mentioned in the rest of that paragraph. I guess you just looked past that.

And I never said overspending on credit was good. In fact, I called those people dumbasses or a word similar to that. Spending on credit is fine, as long as you don't overdo it like Bush has done.

The government doesn't pay back debt. WE do. Taxes, higher prices, less assistance, these are all ways they take our money to replace the imaginary money they've handed us. Attitudes like yours and mistreatment of currency as a concept is PART of the reason we're in this mess. People think that if we overspend, the government will just create more money. Nope. They take yours.

Yes, the government does pay back debt. The use our tax money to do it. Thats how it is handled. I don't see you going up to the Chinese credit collection agency and giving them a check.

Prices aren't controlled by the government, so how is that connected? Higher prices are due to market forces, the biggest one oil, and the environment.

Want to know why wheat prices doubled in a few months? People switched to farming corn, because the market is demanding more of that than wheat. Also, the cost of shipping it to stores has increased due to gas prices.

Last time I checked, the government doesn't control gas prices either. They don't even buy the gas.

People think that if we overspend, the government will just create more money. Nope. They take yours.

Dude, we overspend on the amount of money that is in the economy now, controlled by the Fed. Banks can't over extend credit they don't have. They have a reserve requirement to meet EVERY SINGLE NIGHT.

I know the Fed recently blew more money into the economy, but that was due to the recession. Guess what is going to happen, banks are going to use that extra money lend to people, so they buy, and the economy picks up.

What happens when an economy gets too hot? The FED will suck money out of the economy.

I took microeconomics, but the Fed is macro economics which I thought was required in schools?!?!? Have you taken this class yet?

 

[Apollo]

When you say you're right you take all the fun out of it.
Damn you!

Sorry hun, I just can't spare mental energy to try and defend that point-of-view.

Even though, given todays society, I don't think many people could survive without shelter, but I see all the obvious holes in that statement.

 

[Apollo]

NEVER! Credit won't disappear because it increases the creditors profit. Credit is a business, not an assistance program. The appeal is that you get what you want sooner, the drawback is that you pay more long-term. That's why my grandma pays cash for her furniture, buying it on credit is essentially paying more.

I swear I said that. I swear to GOD, I fucking said that. Do you not read what I write? You go on this tirade about evil credit, blah blah, and suddenly realize it is a business? geez

Of course you pay more with credit, it's call an INTEREST RATE. People understand there is an interest rate, and don't care half the time.

Creditors expect to get as little as they can? You're too naive. Read the fine print. Joe Banker isn't smiling at you, he's smiling at your wallet.

Instead of cutting down the paragraph and commenting, try reading the entire thing and learning.

Creditors work with you to get their money. They want you to pay, so they understnad they may have to lower the interest or knock off a few thousand to get their money. They are still getting paid, and they are still making huge profits.

Funny how I already said that in the paragraph you quoted.

Overexaggerating my point doesn't make it valid, it just makes your argument weak.

You had no point to argue. Let me quote that sentence here again for you.

That's why they make the TOC so complicated, because they don't want you to know that you get less for credit than you do for currency.

Mhmm, well people understand that already. It is called interest on your credit. They pay more money back for using the credit, and really, this isn't a complicated part of the TOC. They are straightforward with the how much the interest is. It is even in the commercials.

They don't control gas because they're too busy golfing with the owners of the oil companies.

Well duh.

Don't need to. Everything I learned in high-school and by reading my bank statements has given me a clear picture of what credit is really about. Cash/debit= one-time fee. Credit=accumulative fees. That's why creditors convince you that credit is your friend. And where's the trap?

Credit reports! You can't get an apartment or a car or a loan or a pack of gum without a credit check. If you're using your own funds, you're devalued as a consumer because they're not making as much off your paycheck as they can. That's why 'no credit' is worse than 'bad credit'. They don't have to adjust for the downfall when credit is called in, YOU do.

Well no wonder you don't know what your talking about.

So because you got screwed over, credit is this bad thing? It isn't the worlds fault you didn't realize there was an interest rate on a credit card.

And seeing how buying a house is a huge investment, and so is a loan (which is credit) a credit check is necessary. It protects the business and their other customers from some deuche who is gonna take the loan and run or has a history of not paying off their bills on time.

You do realize bills factor into your credit report right? If you don't pay your electric bill, it is reflected.

 

[Apollo]

I never once said credit is evil, I said its a business and it's misused. Credit is only good in a perfect world where people make nothing but good choices. In the real world, credit is a double-edged sword at best.
What I've been discussing is the RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN CREDIT AND A SPECIFIC DEMOGRAPHIC. Credit keeping them trapped in proverbial ghettos.

OMG, next time, tell me when you are focusing on a demographic. This is what happened in another thread to. You failed to mention that you were talking about a demographic, and then our arguements never met up.

Seriously, you made this entire thing sound like EVERYONE misuses credit, it is bad for everyone, ladida.

In the future, to shorten these threads, just start by saying "for this demographic" and go on with your arguement.

Of course credit is bad for poor people, they have dead end jobs, and don't know how to properly use credit.

Now I see where this is going. Are you a creditor or banker? If I said something that implied creditors are evil greedy pigs, I apologize. They're only employees and I ain't mad at anybody who works for a living.

I am neither, I am studying for graphics design.

And again, you ignored the rest of my paragraph explaining everything.

You know, if you talk to the enemy, they will eventually work with you toward a common goal. You want your debt gone, they want their money.

If governments took this advice, there would be world peace. Sadly, they treat these people with hostility, and nothing gets solved, and no one gets helped.

Holy fuck, if you'd have recognized this 2 pages ago we wouldn't be in this mess. I'm not discussing everyone. Not JUST credit. A specific relationship that you continually break up by injecting things that have nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I assume for the sake of boosting your ego and convincing yourself that you've taught another stupid black man a few things about the economy.

You know, if you had indicated that you were talking about a certain demographic. You didn't even have to mention the demographic, just say demographic, and I wouldn't have wasted my time discussing this shit.

I am black to dumbass, and if you stopped learning out of your ass, and from "real life experiences" maybe you would know there are alternatives to getting down bad credit, and using credit properly. It isn't my fault you might have maxed out your credit cards, then suddenly found out there is something called an interest rate attached to it.

That is why I will only ever own one credit card, keep my loans to things important, like a house and a car, and pay it back on time, or ahead of time and not have to think about it. It will make me happy and the creditors happy too.

I'm aware. But the drawback is paying them on time doesn't get reflected as much as not paying them. Because I keep my bills in order, my credit report looks skinny compared to someone with accumulative debt. Guess which one of us is gonna pay a higher deposit? The one who isn't using lots of credit. If you haven't figured out the relationship between corporations and creditors you really don't know what you're talking about.

Paying bills on time or ahead of time are reflected in your credit score. It gives you a higher credit score, which means you are more likely to get what you want and what you need almost instantly. Defaulting on a bill or a loan more than once will hurt you as it should.

A higher deposit on what? Your electricity bill? Dear, that is settled in house with various different plans and rates to choose from. If you are savvy, you get a low rate.

Creditors are a corporation of themselves, and of course they work closely with other businesses, businesses buy on credit too, and pay higher interest rates than a individual.

There are a few exceptions like say Microsoft, which has around $46 billion dollars of cash on hand to buy what they need and what company they want. Except Yahoo apparantly. Well actually, Microsoft, for the first time probably since they started, was going to have to borrow money to buy Yahoo.

 

[Apollo]

I didn't fail to mention it, you failed to recognize it. I can't be blamed for your failure to recognize who I was addressing, though I'm glad you've finally caught on.

Show to me where you mentioned it, and then I will agree. Cause I have been sitting here wondering what you have been talking about this entire time.

In the future, YOU shorten threads by discussing who's discussed, not bringing somebody else into the picture. I discussed people who abuse credit, you brought up rich people.

I just realized this is the Starbucks thread. You did mention poor people, and then I was like, ok that makes sense, I even agreed with you.

Then you went on a tangent and we got into discussing credit. Weren't you the one that said you were done with this thread? And then you come back and decided you wanted to take on credit? Seriously now, this should have ended when I realized and AGREED that low income people shouldn't be spending money on Starbucks.

I'm trying to learn efficiency, not micro-posting. You're being oxymoronic.

To be more efficient, mention your demographic, then go on your five page rant. Otherwise, your wasting my time and energy.

You see, I would have agreed with you that debt is bad for poor people. I mean that is kind of obvious considering. How it effects the economy is dismal really. So much more affects the economy on a larger scale than a few thousand poor people not paying off their credit.

Being black doesn't mean you won't assume I'm stupid.

Then stop bringing race into the picture. Was it really necessary to say "educating a black man"? I don't give a shit what race you are, I am still going to debate you, and that is that.

This might spark another debate, or maybe a whole new thread even, but the problem with black people is that they live too far into the past, and think too much about race. People like Al Sharpton are the reason things aren't moving forward in this world.

You say that if I ignore what I've learned through my experinces, I'll learn how to use credit? You're falling apart and losing ground by making false implications. I KNOW how to use credit BECAUSE of my life experiences. I've never signed a single thing without taking it home, reading it, and deconstructing it. I'm not an impulse buyer, though that's another behavior of people who misuse credit.

My arguement has never once strayed too far from even the original topic of this thread to tell the truth. You on the other hand are getting up on a soapbox and screaming about the "evil credit" as if it personally effects you.

I've only had two credit cards since age 18. Neither are maxed out. I knew there were interest rates because I read the fine print. You're transposing me with the demographic I'm addressing. Insulting, but not surprising.

Refer to my above posting in this post. And I will add, that stop making it personal. If you don't have a problem with credit, then stop starting controversy on the fact people want to go to Starbucks. If people want to go to Starbucks in the morning, or whenever, then let them. One person even explained why he goes every morning except weekends, which you didn't even comment on.

You are a little too wound up, and it is so evident on this board. I begin to read something you write in another thread, and stop the minute I realize you are about to make a mountain out of a mole hill, which is a lot. Why do you think you were banned for a week?

 

[Apollo]

Starbucks closing a store is a reason for coffee lovers to celebrate. Each store they close means that average quality of coffee sold in the world goes up and the average bitterness of the cofee sold in the world goes down.

haha, Starbucks is only closing stores in America. They have too many. They are expanding and opening stores at a fast rate everywhere else in the world.

 

[Apollo]

You've done it again. I was referring to an isolated case and you've opened it up by talking about people. I'm not people. I don't misuse my race. I was justified in wondering if my color had something to do with your attitude of needing to educate me.

Yawn, this isn't about the orginal topic, or our second arguement. This is about you bringing up race for no reason. Moving on.

I didn't make it personal, I liked you until this thread. I created a flow of discussion based on the OP, you challenged my intelligence, my education, and insulted both. I didn't insult starbacks or creditors, or even the credit-abusers. My comments about poor spending bled this discussion. Where I went off topic was addressing Starbucks' consumers instead of the company.

Riiiiight. Moving on.

Wait, let me say this, how does talking about poor spending decisions on behalf of individuals explain why Starbucks is closing stores? This is a natural flow of discussion based on the OP?

My comment wasn't about every Starbucks' consumer, just ones who buy $5 coffees when their light bill is past due and their debts are piling up.

Yet, you failed to mention this until a long time later. See how this discussion could have been shortened now?

I'm too wound up? Nope. Just direct. If you look at the threads I've created, 90% are intended to either be helpful or entertain. I backtracked but realizing that all of this is based on you misinterpreting my posts, I'm gonna limit my responses to people who realize what I'm saying. Misunderstandings are not my fault.

Link me to your lighthearted threads. I think I have seen one or two. The others, were serious.

And really go back into all your other pasts posts. You just barely stay lighthearted in the lighthearted threads. Hell, go back to the thread asking if you were banned. What I am saying is nothing new.

I was banned for a week for using someone's quotes in a new thread about racism. Their quotes were racist but taking the quotes to a new thread violated TOC. I had a good discussion with a Mod about my direct posting style and am working on it. I know when I'm wrong, when you can do the same and point out where you fell off, I'll be happy to progress. In the meantime I request that if you read my posts and respond, interpret them before you respond.

Well good to know. Nevertheless, no one would have thought that was the reason.

I interpret all the posts I read. The all sound personal, like you have a chip on your shoulder, and that you are about to create an arguement when there was no need for one.