This guy's accent is mesmerizingly cute

[belamyi]

Why am I speaking English? Well about 400 years ago some white people came to Africa to do us *checks notes* the greatest favor ever known to man.

No, why is that not a mere secondary feature, but an essential element.

I thought the essence of American blackness was not the language of the oppressor, but Kwanzaa or curly hair... even though it seems it doesn't detract from "blackness" to bleach it platinum blond or fiery red, as much as ironing it would

But you know I am always ready to learn, so you would be welcome to enlighten me

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

No, why is that not a mere secondary feature, but an essential element.

I thought the essence of American blackness was not the language of the oppressor, but Kwanzaa or curly hair... even though it seems it doesn't detract from "blackness" to bleach it platinum blond or fiery red, as much as ironing it would

But you know I am always ready to learn, so you would be welcome to enlighten me

We're playing it by ear. Building our own culture is made difficult by intersectional issues

This convo needs way more alcohol than I have available at the moment. The bleaching and perming definitely DOES detract from blackness, but like all aspects of our identity thats a byproduct of enforcing european standards of beauty and shaming blackness. We literally are fighting in court now, in 2021, just to be able to wear our natural hair to work (employers can and do legally ban or refuse to hire anyone with afros or twisted hair). for our fucking kids to not get sent home from school for wearing afrocentric braids (it happens regularly). Our culture is heavily policed and we are strictly prohibited from offending whiteness.

Before I get drunk I'll say that the height of black confusion is these men locking their hair, seemingly representing the culture aesthetics, but dating white girls (or guys) and assimilating into institutions that are loudly and proudly racist-- see Cam Newton for reference. You see his twisted hair and think "blackness" but hes probably playing for, OWNED BY, a coach who regularly uses the N word in his emails.

But if you really wanna learn lemme run to the liquor store and start a new topic cuz linguistics and he human voice in general are favorite subjects of mine so I'd like to swing back to accents. Am I the only one who notices watered down accents resurface when one is drunk or excited/mad/whatever? Ive heard the same said of Irish and Germans who try to tame their accents to blend into Americana.

And can SOMEBODY explain to me why english singers' accents disappear when they sing? Jessie J, Adele, Amy Winehouse, and so on, easiest answer is theyre heavily influenced by American soul music so theyre only immitating what they grew up listening to.

Example of spoken vs sung pronunciations

Spoken: oy downt cah
Sung: I don't care

 

[belamyi]

^ That's what you get for focusing on skin color instead of on neuronal power

... and considering "one's" people whose with the "right" skin pantone, not the right...

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

^ that's what you get for focusing on skin color instead of on neuronal power

... And considering "one's" people whose with the "right" skin pantone, not the right...

where did adeles accent go?!!!

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^I wanted to scream that but no all caps

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

i wish I wasnt already tipsy, Id make a YouTube video for comparisons sake of english singers speaking in interviews vs singing, the pronunciation completely changes. Its a peculiar phenomenon esp per vocal studies.

 

[belamyi]

And can SOMEBODY explain to me why english singers' accents disappear when they sing? Jessie J, Adele, Amy Winehouse, and so on, easiest answer is theyre heavily influenced by American soul music so theyre only immitating what they grew up listening to.

If there is an occasion in which your last concern should be regional accents, that would be singing.

I actually detest when you can detect a yokel American accent (those frightful 'r') singing the Italian words of an aria

 

[belamyi]

where did adeles accent go?!!!

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^I wanted to scream that but no all caps

Maybe it went along with her British musical 'roots'?
If he sings American pop styles, why should she be non-rhotic, or whatever you mean

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

If there is an occasion in which your last concern should be regional accents, that would be singing.

I actually detest when you can detect a yokel American accent (those frightful 'r') singing the Italian words of an aria

Unintentionally when I studied opera I was uber-careful how I pronounced r's. Just sounded better, my teacher never stressed that consonant he was all vowels vowels vowels but youre right, a yokel r in an aria is like nails on chalkboard, or IQ45 mocking a disabled person. Super cringe.

*closest he came to telling me to pay attention to consonants was a half-lesson on g, b, c and p.

 

[Latimer]

Maybe I should have said "generic" then. I admit that I don't have much of an ear for American accents. I can spot New York and Deep South, but all of the rest sound the same to me.

RP is something else to my mind. It's accent-less English as spoken in England. Standard American and RP are surely mutually exclusive.

I borrowed the term from you Brits. I used generically, and that, although the term is British in origin, it could be used to describe the "standard" accent in any language.

 

[belamyi]

Unintentionally when I studied opera I was uber-careful how I pronounced r's. Just sounded better, my teacher never stressed that consonant he was all vowels vowels vowels but youre right, a yokel r in an aria is like nails on chalkboard, or IQ45 mocking a disabled person. Super cringe.

*closest he came to telling me to lay attention to consonants was a half-lesson on g, b, c and p.

At first I thought you had typed "1Q84"


Oh, and what about those aspirations in a Romance language

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

At first I thought you had typed "1Q84"


Oh, and what about those aspirations in a Romance language

I learned a few italian arias and I was 2 years into Spanish studies when I began voice lessons so I eased into that perfectly. If i cared for higher education at a white institution (the only kind that get sufficient funding) my field of study mightve been foreign languages. Ive wanted to learn arabic as well, the languages of my precolonial heritage arent widely available.

I take culture and language seriously so Im always mindful not to Americanize when speaking or singing a different language.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Honestly I may jump off a 7th floor balcony if I hear one more person pronounce a singular L in quesadilla.

 

[belamyi]

I learned a few italian arias and I was 2 years into Spanish studies when I began voice lessons so I eased into that perfectly. If i cared for higher education at a white institution (the only kind that get sufficient funding) my field of study mightve been foreign languages. Ive wanted to learn arabic as well, the languages of my precolonial heritage arent widely available.

Oh, really, which are..?

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Honestly I may jump off a 7th floor balcony if I hear one more person pronounce a singular L in quesadilla.

Thankfully my surname has that part removed

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Oh, really, which are..?

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Thankfully my surname has that part removed

My precolonial languages are a question mark, part of the process was violent removal of my culture and separation from my ancestors. But you knew that you jerk

Per your surname I'm confused, it had the double-L spelling but you changed it to one L?

 

[belamyi]

My precolonial languages are a question mark, part of the process was violent removal of my culture and separation from my ancestors. But you knew that you jerk

Per your surname I'm confused, it had the double-L spelling but you changed it to one L?

Oh, I had assumed your [assumed] "heritage" involved something more exotic than trite Swahili, Fula or Ge'ez

https://cvc.cervantes.es/literatura/clasicos/quijote/edicion/parte1/cap01/default.htm


But even so, unenlightened people would be prone to mispronounce it... the Italian like the Anglos

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

I still dont understand what your surname is or the part that you ?hacked off? Quixote?

 

[Latimer]

I I borrowed the term from you Brits. I used it generically, and thought that, although the term is British in origin, it could be used to describe the "standard" accent in any language.

Interestingly, the term for the "standard" accent in Italian is italiano standard, and in French is français standard.

 

[belamyi]

Interestingly, the term for the "standard" accent in Italian is italiano standard, and in French is français standard.

There may be a more or less standard French, and that being pretty generous, but anyone minimally familiar with, let alone proficient in Italian, knows that we are far from having a standard Italian to dream to assimilate: it is not that there are lexical or phonological variations, it's that there is no generally agreed, much less accepted, standard term or pronunciation (not just vowel and consonant sounds, but even word stress, since Italians can't or, rather, won't care to agree on which syllables they have to stress in certain words) in too many cases for them to constitute mear exceptions to a norm that, again, simply does not exist, because Italian unity came too late, at a time when diversity above uniformity was becoming the true standard.

Better said, where we generally think of a linguistic standard as A LINE to follow, in the case of Italian there is a WIDE STRIPE in which people are free to roam, or even overstep without occassioning truly serious linguistic or social objections.

 

[Latimer]

There is standard Italian, and it is codified with disagreements and variations noted. It is the Italian of newsreaders and (many) actors and it is the Italian taught in language courses and by tutors. That most Italians depart from it is not the point.

I brought up the term "italiano standard" because I find it interesting and amusing that the official term uses an English adjective and not an Italian one. I only know the term because I spent a fair amount of time with a tutor trying to better my own Italian accent, some of which involved ridding myself of certain presumptions. You might find Davide's discussion interesting:

 

[belamyi]

There is standard Italian, and it is codified with disagreements and variations noted. It is the Italian of newsreaders and (many) actors and it is the Italian taught in language courses and by tutors. That most Italians depart from it is not the point.

The point is, like I said, that said "Italian standard" has way more loopholes than one would expect to fit in the common notion of linguistic standard.

This is an average language standard:

This is standard Italian:

And you know it.