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This is so totally F***ed UP!

>>>i dont see how this is so complicated to be honest

Oh, it isn't. I'm just unbelievably simple. Thanks for explaining it. :)

Lex
 
There is so much inconsistency here at JUB with moderating. Things happen with some people which don't happen with others. The popular people are allowed a great amount of latitude. The less-popular are not.

Who is above sticking to the rules here? Can the mods honestly do their duties with a 'do as I say, not as I do' attitude? You cannot garner nor hold respect with an attitude like that. Why make rules if they don't apply to everyone?

Personally, I find it ludicrous that we go on so often in this forum about 'equality' when we're not even 'equal' in our own little community.
 
>>>Personally, I find it ludicrous that we go on so often in this forum about 'equality' when we're not even 'equal' in our own little community.

JUB is not a democracy. JUB is a pornographic site with a messageboard on it. If you don't like the rules, or the moderators' interpretations thereof, you can't "vote them out of office". :)

Lex
 
Thank you all for your interest in hearing about this. Let me see if I can explain a bit more.
What I find odd is that if it was so inappropriate, why wasn't the thread locked or removed all together?
The threads in question were not so inappropriate that they needed to be locked or deleted. We do try not to resort to those measures unless it is absolutely necessary. It's something we think stifles the forum. We learned from experience to go lightly with the locking of threads. Three years ago or so, it seemed like every third thread ended up being locked. Now we try to find a more appropriate home for them. Because these threads were parody threads (hence, fun), they were relocated to Fun & Games.

Why is the "Post a current picture of you" still in HT then?

How about the one which periodically surface about "people you miss seeing on JUB?"

And the RRRralph thread?

These all have at least 200 posts in, hence active for a long time. How many posts did RL's thread garner before it was moved?

90+, and once he was back, the poll would have died in HT like most old threads.

Moving it was thus, unnecessary.
Excellent question. It was decided by Admin a couple of months ago to try to leave as much in Hot Topics as possible--sort of a precursor to the possible eventual elimination of F&G altogether. Again, the parody threads in question were moved because they were deemed to be mean-spirited. They were created to poke fun at a newbie with a genuine question. Instead of deleting them, we hoped to keep them alive in a more suitable forum.

Thank you for the explanation. I really do not want to get in the middle of the drama. But I have been waiting to hear the other side before making any judgement on the issue. That does seem to make a lot of sense to me. I enjoy RL's posts and hope that we can just get over this and get along with each other. The mods should manage the boards as they see fit. Being a mod is kind of like one of those thankless volunteer jobs....kind of like people on HOA boards. Your damned if you do and your damned if you don't. At least with being a mod on a board, you mods probably don't have so many legal and brown act issues to deal with.

I had a thread that was closed yesterday by the mods because some other members talked about other things that upset some members that had nothing to do with the thread. I have also had threads moved to other boards, on occasion. I'm not going to get upset over it. They are just doing what they feel is right. Life goes on...

I don't want to belittle what RL is feeling but I would like to see us just try a little harder to get along.

(group)
I don't want to belittle what RL is feeling, either; but, to be fair, all this was explained to him when the situation was occurring. He, for whatever reason, decided our explanation was not good enough, which is his right, I suppose, just as it is ours to perform our job functions as we've been instructed.

Being a Mod here is akin to being bipolar. One day everyone loves us all (usually days when we're hate-spammed). Other days, none of us should draw breath. It's ebb and flow. Regardless, though, we do all try our best to get as much done as possible, all the while being as fair as humanly possible. Sometimes we vent to each other behind the curtain, as, I'm sure, the members do with each other via PM. It's the nature of dealing with other humans. Thanks for your understanding, metta.

These two paragraphs are inconsistent with the removal of his poll thread and his thread questioning its removal. They were topical and given the subject were also hot. So the first paragraph doesn't apply. Nor does the second one as they are not offensive to a sensitive newbie. Also a quick explanation to a newbie of RL's sense of humour would have probably surficed. If asked nicely he may even have done it himself.
I explained in some other thread (I can't remember which right now) why the poll thread was moved. As for the "pompous jackass" thread, that one was probably moved because we mods don't really appreciate being called pompous jackasses. I can't say for certain because I didn't move it. As for the explanation of RL's humor, why should he have to explain it? And, more to the point, why should a newbie have to ask? Why was it necessary to create parody threads? I fear this is a circular discussion. The point is, we moved the threads because they served no purpose outside making fun of a newb. We did not lock or delete them because it wasn't necessary.

Here's an example. Inwood, in what I believe to be his best Barefoot Cuntessa role, has created a thread called "LaserJet vs. Laser Printers." It is marked as a "Serious" thread, yet the first respondents to the thread all treated it as a joke. A "Virgin" poster took it seriously and gave an explanation. Now imagine one serious thread with multiple unmarked parody threads, such as "LaserJet v Jet Lasers" or "LaserGel v DotMatrixGel" or whatever. What seems to be funny is really just rudeness.

(I do have to admit the two JUB/Mods ruining each other threads each have their merits.)

OK, understood. But here's a list of other threads in Hot Topics that nobody seems to have found necessary to move (along with forums you'd think they might be moved to):

A Small Joke (Fun & Games)
I Think I Maybe Just Falling in Love (Coming Out/Relationships)
Food Poisoning (Fitness/Health)
Bart Simpson Naked (Celebrities)
Stretch Marks (Fitness/Health)
Timbaland's The Way I Are (Music/Entertainment)
Please Don't Ask Me Anything (Fun & Games)
Nick Lachey Nude Pics (Celebrities)
July 6 1971 - Louis Armstrong Is Gone (Celebrities)
Do You Vote? (Current Events/Politics)
ABBA - Love Them? Hate Them? (Music/Entertainment)
Can You Pass the US Citizenship Test? (Current Events/Politics)
Barack or Hilary? (Current Events/Politics)
Is Ratatouille As Good As They Say? (Music/Entertainment)

That's just from the first page. So what's going on?

Lex
Judging by the titles here, Lex, you're absolutely right. The only one of these I actually saw was the Citizenship Test thread. It felt right to remain in HT because it was topical to the Independence Day holiday. The rest of them I just haven't seen but should be moved.



I hope this has helped explain things a bit. If not, please feel free to ask further questions and I'll see what I can do. Thanks again.

What I would like to know from you guys is what is with the stigma attached to Fun & Games? Why is it seen as insulting when a thread is moved there? Why is F&G considered the badlands or the pariah of the board?
 
I don't remember where I saw the post today, but I definitely like the idea of Fun & Games becoming just "GAMES" (or Games And Playing, or whatever), AND Hot Topics being split into "on topic" or "serious" (including those threads where the gloves come off) and "casual talk." These are only crude names, but I think it gives the idea.

I know that Rational Lunacy is one of (yes) a number of reasons that I habituate JUB. Various threads in Hot Topics have surprised me, made me angry, elated me, made me pray, made me cry, inspired me, made me laugh, made me realize something, made me feel "Ewwwww!" - and, yes, on rare occasions even scared me. Who knows, there may even be a day when I can say that a full relationship came to me from somewhere within JUB? I always thought that humor was a VERY important component in all this, and it's an unalterable fact that almost every humorous bit will offend somebody. Because humor may offend somebody, should it be banned or exiled? Absolutely not! Furthermore, RL's type of humor just happens to fit in with the type of humor I most appreciate. That doesn't mean that everybody is supposed to appreciate it, and part of our own individual sovereignty is that we are free to choose what we like or don't like, and, if need be, we have the right to ignore that which we prefer to.

If somebody doesn't like RL, there's always the Ignore option.

What I would like to know from you guys is what is with the stigma attached to Fun & Games? Why is it seen as insulting when a thread is moved there? Why is F&G considered the badlands or the pariah of the board?

The Fun & Games forum is NOT an "inferior" or deficient forum, in any way. Hell, I've started a number of threads there myself, and I'm there (at some point) pretty much every day. It's there for a purpose, and people are there to have fun. It's all part of human nature. However, since that forum has evolved overwhelmingly into PLAYING GAMES (word play, personal factoids, short personal lists, continuing stories, etc.) - or was it basically a GAMES place from the beginning? - AND because the posts in that section are generally exceedingly short and quick, the "churn" is intense. Somebody there can make a full 60 posts per hour EASILY - try to do THAT in CE & P, for example! I've studied its front page a number of times, and I've noticed that the front page (where I see 50 threads at a time) can completely turn over in less than two hours. I think once that I saw the oldest post on the front page (the 50th thread down) was a mere 1 hour 14 minutes earlier.

In F&G some of the posts are so short that people often have to use ...... or **** in their posts, to fulfill the ten-character posting minimum. The counting thread and the antonym thread are good examples of this.

The RL threads are invariably much more than just asking people to come up with a couple of words here and there; they are almost always discussions. I don't feel that a DISCUSSION thread should ever be put in F & G - not even a thread about video games or TV quiz shows. (I once posted a thread about Jeopardy! there, only to realize later it probably belonged in HT.) Discussions are meant not to get buried and overwhelmed amid other threads, and if something can fall to Page 2 after only 1 & 1/4 hours, that's not where a discussion belongs.

Springboksfan mentioned, somewhere (oh, here it is, at 2:08 this morning - above) the concept of "flooding" - multiple threads on the same topic. I have sometimes seen mods merge threads, and it's always seemed appropriate when it was done. Well, if one can consider "GAME PLAYING" to be a topic, and it can certainly be argued that way, and if F&G got merged into the HT forum, wouldn't that be the same thing as flooding? I think that merging the two forums would cause members to flee the forum en masse. If a HT thread isn't active enough to get at least 20 or 30 posts per day - and only a few are that active - it will rapidly sink to Page 2 or even Page 3. That is basically a death knell for that thread.

Moving RL threads to F&G, and the talk of merging F&G into HT, are flip sides of the very same coin. The two issues are exact corollaries of each other. As much as I disagree with RL being moved to F&G (where discussion threads don't belong), moving F&G to HT would affect *ALL* discussion threads, not just RL's.

I've let it be known that I disagree intensely with the newfangled placement of RL threads, but I have to ADD VERY QUICKLY that I have in general been very highly satisfied with virtually all of the moderation decisions on this site, and I realize that some of the calls aren't easy ones. Actually, this being my first dispute over moderation in about 18 months, I think that speaks pretty well of the job that's being done, and it's entirely volunteer.

So many threads can be seen as hybrid threads, not entirely at home in one place. For example, though the Pegasus69 "cancer update" thread resides in its proper place (Hot Topics), it could easily be argued that it would be very much at home in the "Health & Well Being" forum.

And there used to be an active thread on which we were asked to say what our favorite threads were. Where does THAT belong? It was in HT, where it got the most exposure, but it could be argued that it belonged in Site Help and Feedback, which would have made it visible to almost nobody.

Ironically, having moved the two RL threads to F&G recently has probably given them new life (which is an anomaly when moved to a place where they can so easily get flooded out, and where a fewer number of people venture), because "the poll one" was soon to become passe (he DID come back ON SCHEDULE, after all), and the other recent one WOULDN'T HAVE EVEN EXISTED if "the poll one" had remained in HT. However, the original issue, and the reason for RL's hiatus to begin with, is that **PREVIOUS** threads had been moved to F&G. Which ones? How many threads were moved? You see, I don't know...because they most likely sank to Page 2 or 3 immediately, and I didn't see them.

That's entirely the point. Our point is not to disparage F & G in any way, but merely the realization that "discussion threads" sink into the quicksand VERY quickly if they're moved there.

I love seeing the RL threads in the mix, seriously - and I hope that future RL threads can remain in their intended places. I feel a need for the humor, and I repeat, it's been an important component in my enjoyment of this huge site. I don't want to see something done which threatens the integrity or continuation of the forums, which makes JUB one of the most special places on the www. These various forums are very special and even what I believe to be the largest gay site on the internet (you know, the one with one of the Web's shortest URL's) has nothing at all like what we have here.

RL, please stay with us. And I hope that your threads can stay in HT where they belong.

RL is intelligent enough to realize when something truly belongs in F&G, and I don't think he'll hesitate to start a thread there if that's where it belongs. It's my understanding that he's been a moderator himself, somewhere else.

I did notice that the "place-saving" function is being used currently (there's two of them on the front page) - I couldn't remember seeing it used in quite a few weeks, and the most recent example I could find a day ago was its usage in early May. Can't the moved RL threads at least have a "Moved:" notice in HT, if they otherwise stay in F&G?

An unanswered question, though, is what would happen if the JUB membership grew large enough to out-populate Oklahoma City or Detroit. One can assume that the number of threads and the number of postings would increase similarly. Wouldn't that mean, then, that even in HT (even without any threads that, in any way, even resemble games OR fun), the front page would be completely turning over every hour or so? Ironically there would possibly be LESS turnover and churn in F&G, because there's only so many variations of gaming via text. (I'm thinking of starting a new thread in a few minutes, there...) The obvious answer would be to break HT into more subforums, which would strongly increase the numbers of threads which seem to belong to multiple categories, and where to look for something would become all the more perplexing.

In other words, damned if you do, damned if you don't...

Please, don't even THINK of asking me to be a moderator...!!!!!! :eek:
 
:grrr:
Whoever is so determined to keep moving RationalLunacy threads to FUN & GAMES, please stop it now!

RL's posts have been one of the brightest spots not only on JUB, but on the entire internet. I am damn close to closing out my membership in here, and I am angry about this. His thread, which was just moved, brought such a spirited response that it reached the second page in what might be record-setting fast time for JUB.

Can somebody PLEASE remove whoever this mod is, who is so ARROGANTLY taking it on himself or herself (there are mods of both genders in here), and taking away what has been one of ther best things about this site? I am one who will gladly contact the owner of this site to complain.

I agree with this sentiment. It is off the wall.
STOP[-X
 
I'm sorry Dreu, but I don't think it has anything to do with the Moderators disliking disagreement by other Members, nor do I see it as a threat to their authority if someone challenges a decision.

It is a case of it's not what you say, but how you say it.

To some degree, we are all Moderators (that's why there is a Report Post function); and like the rest of us, Moderators Proper respond best to Respect - people respond positively to situations if the dialogue is polite; if the dialogue is littered with expletives or demands, we are likely to be less positive.

I have seen quite a few Threads moved into F&G that I, personally, have believed did not belong there.

I have PMed the Moderators and I have challenged their decision to move a particular Thread to the F&G Forum, explaining why I believe the Thread does not belong in F&G and I have asked them for an explanation behind their reasoning for moving that particular Thread to the F&G Forum.

In all fairness to the Moderators, I have always received a response explaining why the Thread was moved in the first place and more importantly, these Guys will hold their hands up if they have made a mistake.

The result is that some Threads have been moved back to HT and some have not, but at least I know why those Threads have not been moved back.

springboksfan has given numerous explanations as to why RL's Threads are being moved and why others aren't. I think it's time we respected the Moderators' decisions and move on.

good lord

reread my post in its entirety

i was offering posibilities

i have been taking up for them all day :grrr:

i did notice this inconsistency myself

the moving that thread seemed to be done out of spite just to prove a point... mods dont like to be disagreed with by a member... for some reason they consider it a threat to their authority.....

they never disagree with each other in the open.... i believe that is their forum rule

you guys are just wasting your time

i have to say that this is not a one sided issue though

i dont see that the thread....penis just penis....is really much more than F&G material

once a thread is conversational without any semblance of cohesion to a topic, or when a topic doesnt exist and a thread lives on indefinitely without one.... why not move it?

i think my thread.... how do you like your butt.... is a prime example of what springs is talking about

its hitting the two hundred post mark and because i didnt pay it that much attention it has veered from its course and it has turned into a weird conversation....

as for the post a recent picture of yourself thread... well it stays on topic and it remains interesting... it remains a topic and its hot because people are still interested in its original point.... and if people need to see whether a threads life has to do with the like of a member, i would suggest you look atwho made that thread... tadzio was banned a long while back.... so its not about not liking someone.... its more about the nature of a thread, i think

why not take the opportunity to just go play in another forum besides hot topics?

we are all still at jub, arent we?

ive had a few threads moved hither and yon and i just dont post in them anymore if i dont liek the move

I also post in quite a few more forums than hot topics and that one of the reasons i know alot more members at jub than most people do

i do know this.... if the threads in fun and games get moved back to hot topics as a whole forum, it will spell the death of hot topics, so i intend on doing everything i can to get JD to NOT do that as a sollution to this
 
Folks....let's put this to bed.

I'm trying to make nice with the mods because.....well..... most of them are nice.

The thing that has pissed me off all along has not been the moving/removing of any of my threads or posts -- it is the fact that they have been moved/removed anonymously, without so much as a courtesy PM from the mod doing so. Every other board I've ever moderated on does this as standard netiquette. When one finds a large number of their posts moved or removed without explanation, one begins to wonder if these are in fact personal attacks, or just the mod doing their job. I began to feel attacked and lashed back. I have PMed JD and Seth with a couple of ideas that I hope will put this problem to bed once and for all. Mean time, don't think I'm going anywhere -- I'm not!
 
well heres the problem with stirring up an ants nest RL....

they tend to calm down on their own schedule, not yours
 
it took you days to stir this up

some would argue weeks... even months

do you really think it will go away because you have had enough and want to move on now?

you are smarter than that
 
it took you days to stir this up

some would argue weeks... even months

do you really think it will go away because you have had enough and want to move on now?

you are smarter than that
Dude!! :eek:

I certainly hope I misread what you just wrote. I am not, never have been, nor ever will be, here on JUB to be a troublemaker. There is a huge difference between voicing my opinions (which are admittedly strong), and trying to cause a fracas. My ego isn't that big that I think I control the happenings on this or any forum.

I'm just trying to keep the peace and do my part to help things simmer down. As I just finished telling one of the mods, I'm not the jackass you think I am.
 
oooooh

ive stirred enough pots in my day to know when its happening

once the pot is on boil

once Doras box is open....

its not easy to close it

it doesnt matter what you meant to do, i dont think....

what you did is obvious

as you have been saying about the mods

i like you

you over reached this one, though, and the community as a whole is noticeably damaged because of it

i dont care who is right

i often have to make myself pause and ask myself one simple question

" Do I want to be right or do I want to be happy?"

which one do you feel you are at this juncture of the road?
 
Folks....let's put this to bed.

Mean time, don't think I'm going anywhere -- I'm not!

In this post, I'll officially put it to bed from my side as well. I feel that RL's posts are an integral part of this forum, and one of the reasons I hang out in here, but I've said all of that already. Unless something else comes up that I have to answer (such as a comment or question where my reply is needed or suggested), or if the practice continues in a way that hurts RL and is detrimental to the JUB forums which I feel were both true of recent events, I'll hold my tongue. (Even before the flames burst out, I felt that having his threads moved was a detriment to the forum.)

I almost never actually get angry for any reason, outside of things having to do with politics (regarding social, political or foreign policy), in fact I can't remember which year I was last angry outside of those confines, besides this week. I take that back...I guess it was October 9, 2005. It had nothing to do with JUB - in fact I hadn't even heard of this place yet.

After all, nothing, or VERY little, of what ever happens here in JUB will affect our standard of living, value systems, immigration, health, global warming, al-Qaeda and the like. Yes, it is possible that somebody will be inspired by reading posts from Pegasus69 or Soilwork, or decide to stop smoking because of the successes of gsdx and others, or learn something from the copious comments of the author and others in the massive LostVegas thread, or give a lonely gay guy "out in the boonies" a caring community to belong to, but in general JUB does not affect our lives. JUB is basically a diversion, and for many of us, if JUB didn't exist, we'd just be spending the same time in Groups (whether science, NASCAR, travel, music, hiking, biking, politics or...) or surfing the Web anyway.

I am very, very thankful to see what appears to be a good resolution to all of this, and I thank the cooler heads and ideas that finally prevailed. I definitely lost my cool and I'm sorry if I offended anybody. RL has told us that he plans to stay. Hooray!!!

This is one of the things that will help JUB to continue to be a place that I love to come to, and feel comfortable in. Feeling ready to leave as I felt, was truly heartwrenching for me. I feel so relieved that I can now put THAT behind me as well, as for a while I was truly on the brink.

Now, I *TRULY* have to get back to WORK!!!!!
 
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