this REALLY upsets me

[LaloGS]

Sort of reminds me of law enforcement in the small town I used to live in in New Jersey. They had a rash of burglaries in the town, that the local cops couldn't solve. Their solution was to hire several of the local bad boys as auxiliary cops to look into the problem for them. Two and a half years later one of the auxiliary cops was caught red handed climbing out a window of the VFW hall with a TV and a bunch of cash stuffed into his pockets. When he was sweated he confessed and implicated the rest of the auxiliary cop bad boys who had been the burglars all along and were responsible for all the break-ins from the start. The cops just facilitated more robberies instead of doing their jobs.

 

[JayHawk]

Well that is all great. Grow a set of nuts and go enforce he law. Then tell me how bad it is. until then feel free to move to some other country where the law is so much better.

What we have is not great I challenge you to find better. if you do then stay there.

 

[LaloGS]

Well that is all great. Grow a set of nuts and go enforce he law. Then tell me how bad it is. until then feel free to move to some other country where the law is so much better.

What we have is not great I challenge you to find better. if you do then stay there.

You wouldn't know better if it bit you in the ass. You opine from such a narrow understanding of the rest of the world, you sound like my career military dad the more you rant. He in turn sounded like Hitler, because it was how the military taught him to think. Is that your problem?

BTW, in my Colombian neighborhood, there are cops walking their beat 24/7 in groups of 4 and each group is within eyesight of the group in front of them. How long has it been since you've seen even one cop walking a beat in any city in the US? Talk about what you know Mazda, not about what you wish was true. Otherwise it isn't helpful.

 

[JayHawk]

You live in a place where the cops have to walk beats in gangs of four. And you feel good about that?

America is a country on wheels not on sidewalks. To that point I see a cop right about 20 or so times a day. Thats not even counting the cops that wave me onto my jobsite every morning.

Again tell me how great the non violence is in Colombia yet even the cops are afraid to walk alone.

Please stop. Your freakin killing me. Your arguments lack a serious measure of cogency.

 

[LaloGS]

You live in a place where the cops have to walk beats in gangs of four. And you feel good about that?

America is a country on wheels not on sidewalks. To that point I see a cop right about 20 or so times a day. Thats not even counting the cops that wave me onto my jobsite every morning.

Again tell me how great the non violence is in Colombia yet even the cops are afraid to walk alone.

Please stop. Your freakin killing me. Your arguments lack a serious measure of cogency.

You really jump to conclusions so easily Mazda. I've lived there 4 years, and the only crime I've experienced was having my pocket picked once. The country of Colombia is about the size of two Montanas, and Bogota is a city about the size in population of greater New York. The country has a law that requires every person (male and female) of age, unless they are pursuing a higher education, to serve the county for two years. These people are given a choice of serving their two years as either Military or National Police. These young people dress as policemen/women, but are armed with nothing more than a night stick. Do they prevent crime? Probably, but Colombian cities are not as dangerous as any American city you care to name. I have seen them searching likely suspects for drugs or weapons, but mostly the get on people's cases for throwing trash on the street instead of a trash can. They also confiscate alcoholic beverages if they are being consumed in public. They pour the liquor out in front of the drinker and lecture them on what they have done. Those police people have to be real tough because Colombia is such a dangerous place. What else do you believe about the country that isn't true?

 

[LaloGS]

More cops, more laws or stricter enforcement of the laws that are already there isn't going to solve the problem in a country in which 1 out of every 99 people are currently locked up.

At what point would you stop, scratch your head and say "This isn't working"?

It goes along with the idea that America is the best country on earth. Americans who believe that, somehow are capable of ignoring the facts and reality. For that group of our fellow citizens it seems to be OK to ignore that there are problems in our society that our politicians continue to ignore in the hopes none of us will ever have to look at the shameful underbelly of the American dream. They are always willing to lock somebody up rather that address the real issues causing that person to become desperate enough to commit a crime. America has become the Disneyland of nations. We make reality shows about our criminals so we can all feel superior over our lonely dinners.

Albert Einstein's definition of insanity fits our society perfectly: "Repeatedly doing what has not been successful and expecting different results is insane."

 

[LaloGS]

mazda that was quite rude and i'm curious as to what fueled such a passionate response

That's OK Marley. Mazda is always rude. He thinks because he has it good, everybody else does. He isn't one of those "compassionate conservatives" you hear about. He's one of those "I've got mine, and fuck the rest of you" types. He doesn't like having reality pointed out to him because it disturbs his belief that all is well in his little "America is the best" dreamworld.

I sent him documented evidence that bush has been the worst president in the history of the country, and he got hysterical. His rudeness was directed at me as it always is.

You know the old saying: "sticks and stones may break my bones but reality just escapes me."

That's Mazda to a "T".

 

[LaloGS]

you need to vote republican i guess because theyre more against crime and thugs

What nonsense. Can't you think a little bit holland? Do you always have to parrot party line? No one likes crime. And only insipid ideologues would make such a statement as you made.

 

[LaloGS]

Marley, I'm sorry you had to endure that humiliation.

When I lived in Manhattan, years ago, I witnessed a horrible crime that took place in front of two of New York's Finest.

The two armed cops were walking a beat and were standing on a corner. On the opposite end of the short block was a famous 24 hour Deli. As I watched, a limo pulled up to the curb, and two couples got out dressed in formal wear, and began walking to the Deli.

There was an alley between where the limo was parked and the deli. I was sitting on my building's fire escape because it was a hot night and I couldn't sleep.

As the couples made their way past the alley, a gang rushed out and began stabbing the two men. The women were screaming their lungs out. The two cops actually turned their backs on the scene, and after the gang had robbed the bodies, and taken the women's jewels, and escaped down the alley, the two cops sauntered down to the scene as if there was no urgency.

I've never trusted any American cop to do the right thing since that night. The way cops do business in this country, is part of the problem.

Aside from their penchant for profiling, they are prone to violence at the drop of the hat, and seemingly need no good reason to blow someone away they know to be unarmed.

An incident in Phoenix a few years ago illustrates this: a 14 year old Hispanic kid was having a problem that got him chased into a vacant lot by several cops (at least 4) and the kid who was frightened picked up a piece of a tree branch when he was cornered against a wall, and brandished it at the cops. They shot the kid some 40 times. The stick was about an inch in diameter and maybe two feet long. The cops were acquitted of murder.

Stories like this are rampant in every city in the country. The recent trial in New York is another example of cops walking on murder charges when it clearly was. The brutal beating of Rodney King regardless of his speeding was uncalled for, and went unpunished.

Our society is racist, and most cops are trained to enforce a kind of hidden agenda to protect property long before they will protect a citizen or that citizen's human rights.

The so called reality cop shows on TV support my point of view, the way they intimidate citizens, mostly of color or whites living far below the poverty line. The lack of respect the cops exhibit is mind boggling, yet the obvious aim of the shows is to show how the cops are getting criminals off the streets. Which in some instances they may be, but they often make judgments that are contrary to our system of justice.

In Maracopa county Arizona there is a long term Sheriff named Joe Arpiao. He has been openly profiling Hispanics here as he says to catch illegal aliens. Some Hispanic communities live in fear and have asked him to stop. His response has been to pull his contracts for ANY law enforcement at all in those communities. He is the worst sort of bigot since he is of Hispanic ancestry. While his task force profiling Hispanics average 30 to 40 arrests a night of Hispanic men of which a small percentage have been illegals, a series of murders and body dumping killings have gone unsolved for at least 8 years now. A new one with the same MO is reported almost weekly. Another with the same MO reported again yesterday. So far several dozen bodies have been found, often dumped in the desert, and frequently left in vehicles that have been set ablaze. Arpiao is referred to as America's toughest Sheriff. In my estimation he is a sham and not much better than a petty dictator and criminal himself. BTW, he is a Repuglican. He talks openly on TV news here about the state's female Democratic governor dismissing her when she criticizes his tactics, and says things like "I am elected. If you don't like what I do in my office don't vote for me but since I'm here, you can take a flying leap for all I care." In other words, "fuck you bitch."

 

[LaloGS]

what would a guy in bogata know about my country ? thats silly

the democrats are too lenient on crime i think

and they both support the death penalty ,which i dont

Holland, I am 64 years old, and an American citizen and lived all but 4 years of my life in the US. I'm currently in the US and I'm shocked at the police state tactics I see going on here. And if you looked more carefully at the problems instead of toeing party line pronouncements you might, just might, have your eyes opened.

As a Democrat, I don't support crime or criminals, and just like every thinking person, I want criminals off the streets and yet I don't support capital punishment, because I can see there are problems with law enforcement and the justice system. So your blanket statements above are again nonsense.

And as far as living in Bogota, which is the size of metro New York, I can tell you if you don't know, that it is a far safer city than any American city. The crime rates in most American cities outstrip the whole country of Colombia. Phoenix, AZ,'s murder rate exceeds the whole country of Colombia on any given year. And Phoenix is less than a quarter the size of Bogota.

Under the Repuglican administrations in America, crime has gotten worse, not better, because people are driven to it because of the stupid economic policies of Repuglican administrations. When poor people are pushed to the edge of starvation many are forced to crime to survive. Repuglicans never address the real problems of our society. They only want an America for the rich, and if you aren't rolling in dough, they will come for you next, no matter how you vote.

So what do I know about America? A lot more than you obviously do. What is silly, is you haven't paid too much attention to what's being done in your name to this country; now have you? Admit it at least to your self. You don't know what's going on do you Mr. Jones?

 

[radical matt]

Maybe it depends on where you are?

In Texas, our police have always seemed nice enough to me, at least all the ones I've ever encountered. If you wave when you pass one (driving in a car), they'll wave back (and I don't mean that ludicrous arm out the window, I just mean lifting a hand from the steering wheel.) If you say hi to one on the street or just nod in their direction they respond in kind. The school police here were nice the few times I encountered them (one asked me about how classes were going and if we were being let out early from a class that day since it had an odd ending time.) Just general stuff like that. Even the ONE time I got pulled over (was suffering from sunburn and exhaustion, he thought I was drunk at first but since I was totally lucid quickly figured out I wasn't and just told me to be careful), the guy was nice and everything.

While I won't question the truth of the stories and observations you've had, and I am a naturally nice guy and white, which may have some impact on these things (though by no means of anything beyond middle-class in appearance and mannerism), I have to say that my own experiences involve nothing of the sorts of things you're talking about.

Of course, I've always lived in smaller towns or on the college campus I'm on now, not deep downtowns with back alleys and gang wars (though I am in DFW now, and haven't seen that here in the specific town I'm in in the metro area), but still.

I'd just like to say that not ALL cops are bad, at least, not from my experiences (I have heard stories, but my own experiences have not been negative). There are some good ones that want to do their jobs and protect people, and it IS a thankless job. I just treat them like I would anyone with authority. I'm polite and respectful. And never a problem I've had to date.


But again, I AM in Texas, and some things are just different here than, say, New York or Chicago. But then from time to time... -shrug-

 

[radical matt]

I've never trusted any American cop to do the right thing since that night. The way cops do business in this country, is part of the problem.

Aside from their penchant for profiling, they are prone to violence at the drop of the hat, and seemingly need no good reason to blow someone away they know to be unarmed.

...

Our society is racist, and most cops are trained to enforce a kind of hidden agenda to protect property long before they will protect a citizen or that citizen's human rights.

The so called reality cop shows on TV support my point of view, the way they intimidate citizens, mostly of color or whites living far below the poverty line. The lack of respect the cops exhibit is mind boggling, yet the obvious aim of the shows is to show how the cops are getting criminals off the streets. Which in some instances they may be, but they often make judgments that are contrary to our system of justice.

I was merely responding to statements like these that seem to imply all cops are bad and/or trained to do bad things (for example, racially profile.)

Of course, I'm white, so if they do racial profiling, they aren't going to be doing it against me, so maybe I don't see it because of that. But I just wanted to point out that there are at least some good cops out there, or at least, ones that were good when dealing with me (since the above quotes seem to imply all police in the US are bad. Which I understand may not have been the intent, but that's what I kind of got from it.)

 

[LaloGS]

I was merely responding to statements like these that seem to imply all cops are bad and/or trained to do bad things (for example, racially profile.)

Of course, I'm white, so if they do racial profiling, they aren't going to be doing it against me, so maybe I don't see it because of that. But I just wanted to point out that there are at least some good cops out there, or at least, ones that were good when dealing with me (since the above quotes seem to imply all police in the US are bad. Which I understand may not have been the intent, but that's what I kind of got from it.)

If one takes the time to look at just a few incidents as I have offered, and even a couple of recent incidents around the country it becomes obvious that law enforcement in general uses racial profiling when choosing to do what they do.

There was an example of this in Hollywood a few years ago, and while I can't now remember the actor's name, he was famous enough from his roles to be instantly recognizable. It was a Halloween party in the Hollywood hills at an upscale mansion. Everyone attending was in costume. A neighbor had called the police to complain about the noise level. The black actor had attended the party dressed as a 30's or 40's gangster, and had borrowed a prop gun from a studio prop house.

A male/female partnered cop team arrived to warn the people to turn down the volume of the party, but ringing the doorbell got no response. So the two cops walked around the back of the house hoping to find a way of attracting the party attendees attention. Once there they could see through the windows that everyone was in costume, but they focused on the one black person in the room, holding a gun, and proceeded to shoot him several times shattering the window and killing him. Even though it was a costume party, and everyone in the room was laughing and drinking and having fun, and were not acting threatened by the black actor.

Those cops were so trained or brainwashed to racially profile that the circumstances of a Halloween party did not register in their brains. They thought "Nigger with a gun." and started shooting. And they were acquitted of the murder. Which proves the court and jury that decided the case thought they were right to do what they did.

While all cops may not be bad, there is such a phenomena referred to as "Cop mentality", and Cop mentality refers to a kind of gang think that it is them against the world. They come to view everyone different as possible threats. Blacks and Hispanics, because of street gang reputations become their profiling targets because they believe that 99% of the time they will find something they can bust someone of color for.

A friend in LA, a successful black man, wearing an expensive suit, driving a BMW, was pulled over by two cops late one night as he was driving home to his house in an exclusive neighborhood. The cops demanded he get out of the car with their guns drawn. He had not been speeding nor had he violated any traffic laws. once out of the car, they demanded that he lie face down on the street. He refused, because of his expensive suit. The cops threatened to shoot him if he didn't comply. He refused again, and their hostility escalated, with abusive language, but he stood his ground. After some racial verbal abuse, my friend was able to ask them why they had stopped him. They then demanded he produce his license and registration. After they examined the documents and determined he lived in the neighborhood, they holstered their guns, and explained to him they thought he was stealing the BMW, because they couldn't imagine a black man could afford or would even drive such a vehicle. So tell me they are not taught to profile.

There may not be classes called Profiling 101, but the idea of profiling is clearly operative in many situations where the police are concerned.

A New Jersey Highway patrolman who was also a friend and neighbor of mine at the time, told me he pulled over every car being driven by a black or Hispanic person, because he'd once been lucky enough to stop a speeding car driven by a black man that had drugs in the trunk. He hadn't made any further arrests after that first one, but he was still hopeful. He denied that he was profiling. We all believe what we want to believe.