Thomas Perez elected new Chair of the DNC

[rareboy]

How does immigration help those working people you claim to care about?

Well I know that this just flies right over your head, but I'll repeat it one more time.

Immigrants are a major driver in the economy...they need everything and generally tend to be younger with children. Immigration has kept the average age in America much lower than Europe. Young average age is critical to support the ageing population.

Immigrants are entrepreneurial and create more new businesses than established residents...once again creating more demand. They also tend to balance out the trend of multi-national corporate chains by opening mom and pop type businesses.

Cities and towns that are open to immigration are experiencing a reversal of their decline.

So, as study after study has demonstrated, immigrants are actually net job and wealth creators.

So while the hill people are all waiting for their jobs at the buggy whip factories and the coal mines to be resurrected, the immigrants are upwardly mobile and committed to the children's education and future in the 21st century world.

But you won't understand this because it isn't part of the narrative you are invested in.

To you there are just furrinerz a comin' fer yer jobz and yer wimmin.

 

[Benvolio]

So Barack Obama presided over lower unemployment (4.9 pct when Obama left office) but also increased poverty???

I wonder how Barack Obama personally managed to increase poverty?

Immigration and "refugees", and unemployment does not count those who have stopped looking; that number has increased..

 

[kallipolis]

^So you keep telling us, but with only the United States official employment figures to rely upon, I believe that those figures are much reliable than your attempt to infer that the unemployment rate is higher. Your evidence from government departments would assist you, and broaden my understandings. Kindly provide same from credible sources. Thank you.

 

[Benvolio]

http://www.npr.org/2016/09/06/492849471/an-economic-mystery-why-are-men-leaving-the-workforce
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article...cans-not-labor-force-participation-rate-drops

 

[kallipolis]

^The true story is reflected in the growth of employment in the black market such as construction, and the hospitality industry such as hotels, restaurants, bars, cafes, and of course the fruit, and vegetable market where work is plentiful for those willing to work for very low wages. This truth extends to most countries, including Germany. The invisible economy here in Greece during the Summer tourist season ensures that our actual unemployment rate drops some four, or five percent for some four months every year, despite the official unemployment rate not changing.

People don't just stop working for they also need to pay the rent, electricity, water, groceries etc. That expenditure does not terminate until one dies.

 

[Benvolio]

Well I know that this just flies right over your head, but I'll repeat it one more time.

Immigrants are a major driver in the economy...they need everything and generally tend to be younger with children. Immigration has kept the average age in America much lower than Europe. Young average age is critical to support the ageing population.

Immigrants are entrepreneurial and create more new businesses than established residents...once again creating more demand. They also tend to balance out the trend of multi-national corporate chains by opening mom and pop type businesses.

Cities and towns that are open to immigration are experiencing a reversal of their decline.

So, as study after study has demonstrated, immigrants are actually net job and wealth creators.

So while the hill people are all waiting for their jobs at the buggy whip factories and the coal mines to be resurrected, the immigrants are upwardly mobile and committed to the children's education and future in the 21st century world.

But you won't understand this because it isn't part of the narrative you are invested in.

To you there are just furrinerz a comin' fer yer jobz and yer wimmin.

The problem with all that crap is that wages have been essentially stagnant for as long as anyone can remember. Clearly the influx of cheap labor has not helped the ordinary American. The was my question:how has immigration helped those working people you claim to care about. The correct answer is that it has not. Without the inflow wages and benefits would perforce has increased.

 

[opinterph]

… wages have been essentially stagnant for as long as anyone can remember.

I reckon that depends upon how well “anyone’s” memory works.

The US Census Bureau reported on median household income and poverty last September:

Median household income in the United States in 2015 was $56,516, an increase in real terms of 5.2 percent from the 2014 median income of $53,718. This is the first annual increase in median household income since 2007, the year before the most recent recession.

The nation’s official poverty rate in 2015 was 13.5 percent, with 43.1 million people in poverty, 3.5 million fewer than in 2014. The 1.2 percentage point decrease in the poverty rate from 2014 to 2015 represents the largest annual percentage point drop in poverty since 1999.

 

[Benvolio]

^The true story is reflected in the growth of employment in the black market such as construction, and the hospitality industry such as hotels, restaurants, bars, cafes, and of course the fruit, and vegetable market where work is plentiful for those willing to work for very low wages. This truth extends to most countries, including Germany. The invisible economy here in Greece during the Summer tourist season ensures that our actual unemployment rate drops some four, or five percent for some four months every year, despite the official unemployment rate not changing.

People don't just stop working for they also need to pay the rent, electricity, water, groceries etc. That expenditure does not terminate until one dies.

The larger share of the young men out of the labor force are blacks who also continue to have the highest unemployment. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/06/the-missing-men/488858/
I doubt if many are working in the underground market as illegals are likely to do. It is surely no coincidence thst 73% of black children are born illegitimate and the mothers--and live in fathers--recieve some types of welfare. And alas, about a third of black men spend time in the pen.

 

[Benvolio]

I reckon that depends upon how well “anyone’s” memory works.

The US Census Bureau reported on median household income and poverty last September:

Whether these increases brought families back to their level prior to the democrat take over of Congress in 2006 and ensuing recession is another question. Is this a long term increase or recovery of a short term dip.
I suppose the question is how much that helped the ordinary lower to middle class workers who changed to the GOP, and how they percieved the democrat priority of immigration.

 

[kallipolis]

The larger share of the young men out of the labor force are blacks who also continue to have the highest unemployment. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/06/the-missing-men/488858/
I doubt if many are working in the underground market as illegals are likely to do. It is surely no coincidence thst 73% of black children are born illegitimate and the mothers--and live in fathers--recieve some types of welfare. And alas, about a third of black men spend time in the pen.

The invisible economy has no records to quantify how many are working within its boundaries, nevertheless, there is sufficient hearsay among those working in the invisible economy to indicate that it is much larger than the authorities will admit too. One might hazard a guess that those gainfully employed in the black economy are as likely to be Blacks, as they are Whites leading one to believe that the Black unemployment rate is much, much lower than you have proposed.

 

[rareboy]

Wages are not stagnant because of immigrants.

They are stagnant because the unions are being busted, corporations are turning full time jobs into part time work and automation has replaced lot of semi-skilled jobs that used to be the bread and butter of middle class America.

You are dreaming if you think that benefits and wages just automatically increase because of a tight labour market.

Instead, the multi-nationals just shift to the countries where they can get the cheap labour.

In my own profession, I have seen a collapse in professional hourly rates and it has nothing to do with immigrants. Almost every professional says the same thing. It had to do with the 2008 recession and a shift in demographics and technology. It has happened as a result of aggregation in almost all professions, including law, finance, engineering and almost every kind of consulting, where the age of the small firm or sole practitioner is being replaced by the corporatization of everything.

What North Americans need to wake up to is that they just aren't competitive. Not because they wnat too much money. but because they lack the need to innovate in a corporatized world. Why open up Joe's Garage and Bake Shop when AutoCorp has a Starbuck's?

But a growing population needs everything from houses, to furniture to food and all the toys. And when that growth stops...so does the economic engine. As it is about to do, except for the huge government make work projects in the resource based industries like the pipelines and the war machine. Although, even then, the world has changed and it isn't the local economies that benefit...it is the multi-national or national corporations that make the huge money.

Ultimately it is the insane aggregation of wealth at the top 1% of 1% that has kept wages and benefits low and these people have no allegiance to community or country when it comes to their money.

 

[Kabluey]

^ at some point, the economy has to recognise that corporations effect their own taxes on the economy's activity.
If a company or class of companies is able to charge excessively for resources (power, phones, fuels, food, materials) or transactions (fees, commissions, etc) then they are effectively taxing the economy.

What's the difference between a tax department drawing a billion in tax versus a power company drawing a billion in profit?
The tax proceeds can be used to help fund running the country.

Monopolistic industries can charge whatever they like at the same time as ratcheting down wages and small supplier costs without any apparent downside (except for when they've bled an economy dry).

 

[Benvolio]

The invisible economy has no records to quantify how many are working within its boundaries, nevertheless, there is sufficient hearsay among those working in the invisible economy to indicate that it is much larger than the authorities will admit too. One might hazard a guess that those gainfully employed in the black economy are as likely to be Blacks, as they are Whites leading one to believe that the Black unemployment rate is much, much lower than you have proposed.

I think your guess is wrong. For one thing about 33% of black men spend time in the pen. I think chidren from single parent/welfare home have poor work ethics.

 

[Benvolio]

Wages are not stagnant because of immigrants.

They are stagnant because the unions are being busted, corporations are turning full time jobs into part time work and automation has replaced lot of semi-skilled jobs that used to be the bread and butter of middle class America.

You are dreaming if you think that benefits and wages just automatically increase because of a tight labour market.

Instead, the multi-nationals just shift to the countries where they can get the cheap labour.

In my own profession, I have seen a collapse in professional hourly rates and it has nothing to do with immigrants. Almost every professional says the same thing. It had to do with the 2008 recession and a shift in demographics and technology. It has happened as a result of aggregation in almost all professions, including law, finance, engineering and almost every kind of consulting, where the age of the small firm or sole practitioner is being replaced by the corporatization of everything.

What North Americans need to wake up to is that they just aren't competitive. Not because they wnat too much money. but because they lack the need to innovate in a corporatized world. Why open up Joe's Garage and Bake Shop when AutoCorp has a Starbuck's?

But a growing population needs everything from houses, to furniture to food and all the toys. And when that growth stops...so does the economic engine. As it is about to do, except for the huge government make work projects in the resource based industries like the pipelines and the war machine. Although, even then, the world has changed and it isn't the local economies that benefit...it is the multi-national or national corporations that make the huge money.

Ultimately it is the insane aggregation of wealth at the top 1% of 1% that has kept wages and benefits low and these people have no allegiance to community or country when it comes to their money.

The law of supply and demand has not been repealed. The workers are correct in concluding that democrats are more interested in immigrants than American workers, and that is a big part of why workers are shifting allegiances.

 

[TX-Beau]

The law of supply and demand has not been repealed. The workers are correct in concluding that democrats are more interested in immigrants than American workers, and that is a big part of why workers are shifting allegiances.

Wow, Lawyer Ben doesn't understand that the law of supply and demand isn't a law, it's a principle.

Plus Free Market Ben wants to regulate labor markets...

Hypocrisy? Or ignorance? Hell, why not both!

 

[Kabluey]

I think your guess is wrong. For one thing about 33% of black men spend time in the pen. I think chidren from single parent/welfare home have poor work ethics.

From the NAACP, so you'll never believe it:

Drug Sentencing Disparities

About 14 million Whites and 2.6 million African Americans report using an illicit drug
5 times as many Whites are using drugs as African Americans, yet African Americans are sent to prison for drug offenses at 10 times the rate of Whites
African Americans represent 12% of the total population of drug users, but 38% of those arrested for drug offenses, and 59% of those in state prison for a drug offense.
African Americans serve virtually as much time in prison for a drug offense (58.7 months) as whites do for a violent offense (61.7 months).
(Sentencing Project)

 

[TX-Beau]

From the NAACP, so you'll never believe it:

I can appreciate your diligence, but taking Ben seriously is only going to make your life more difficult. There is nothing you will ever say from any source that will penetrate his forehead. If we could reproduce whatever it is that shields his brain, we could make a fucking fortune off the Department of Defense...

 

[Kabluey]

I can appreciate your diligence, but taking Ben seriously is only going to make your life more difficult. There is nothing you will ever say from any source that will penetrate his forehead. If we could reproduce whatever it is that shields his brain, we could make a fucking fortune off the Department of Defense...

Completely agree about Ben.
However if he had his way this would be a bizarre transphobic, xenophobic, radical racist hate site for gays.

A counterpoint puts things into perspective.

 

[TX-Beau]

Completely agree about Ben.
However if he had his way this would be a bizarre transphobic, xenophobic, radical racist hate site for gays.

A counterpoint puts things into perspective.

True, IF he had his way, but I still say that if he got dismissed by everyone he'd vacate pretty damn fast.

 

[evanrick]

I reckon that depends upon how well “anyone’s” memory works.

The US Census Bureau reported on median household income and poverty last September:

thats because we were in a recession. get with the times opinterph.