Thoughts about coming out - to parents

[hanshansen]

Yet another one of my internal debates. This is nothing urgent, it’s just that I’ve realised that I will probably not be able to put this off forever, and I guess I want to think my way through what I might expect and how it should best be handled (with the help of a sounding board).

My parents aren’t ideological homophobes. My father definitely isn’t, my mother is Catholic, but lapsed (though still quite religious in a less defined sense), so any objections from that source are likely to be muted. But I think at some level they wouldn’t be that happy with me coming out as gay (or bisexual, which seems closer to the truth at the moment). When my father delegated the ‘talk’ before I went to high school to my mother, among other things she told me I should be aware that gay people existed and that most are basically decent and not predatory, though some had issues and of course it would be harder if someone close to her leant that way. At a party once, she realised that she was talking to a lesbian couple and that one of the women seemed to be coming on to her, which was a horrible experience for her. My parents have an acquaintance who is openly gay and my father doesn’t like him, though my mother defends him. My parents can’t bring themselves to use the word in our language for ‘gay’, they’ll use the English word or say homosexual, my mother uses our equivalent of ‘he plays for the other team’ and is embarrassed when she does so.

On the other side, two former colleagues of my father’s are very probably gay, though no-one ever mentions that possibility; my father liked and respected one professionally, and the other remains a very good family friend. My mother had a ‘black sheep’ uncle who turned gay among other failings, and he was one of her favourite relatives as a girl and she still speaks very fondly of him. Most importantly, my parents must have noticed that I have developmental and relationship issues, but they have never pried, never asked, never pushed me, and they have always watched after my privacy in front of their friends.

Sometimes I wonder what is going on there. My parents are in some ways unusual people. They are extremely squeamish about sex, much more so than I am. If they hear a risqué joke, they will usually claim that they don’t get it, and I think my mother often genuinely doesn’t. I have never heard them talk, however tangentially, about my, their or anyone else’s sex lives. I have no idea what relationships they had before they met each other, and will probably never find out. So are they just sticking their head in the sand and hoping for the best? I had a dangerous moment a couple of months ago in my parents’ house when I had forgotten to close a web page on my computer with, well, some pictures of topless guys on it and I think my father saw it for a split second before I was able to close it. I didn’t bat an eyelid – it could have been some innocent health-related site, right? Anyway, nothing was ever said and my father did not start treating me in any way differently. (I think he would have been horrified first and foremost by the idea that I was looking at, well, porn.) The one thing that makes me think that my parents are not in denial is that they used to talk about a future in which I was assumed to be married and have kids, and they have done that less and less in the last couple of years.

I don’t know how my parents come across in the above paragraphs. They have always supported me and they know I would always support them. They are in their different ways both very high-minded people. My father has always made a point of giving me, his colleagues, his staff space and expecting them to do the right thing on their own initiative. My mother can get very emotional when some of her core beliefs are touched. She is sensitive about religion. She is also basically a pacifist; you cannot talk to her rationally about realpolitik, she will get tearful and agitated. But what is going on there, I think, isn’t so much ideological rigidity as that she tends to think about conflict from the viewpoint of the innocent victims, she cannot bring herself to abstract from that.

On balance, all that makes me think that I’m essentially in safe hands with my parents. It also leads me to conclude that, for the foreseeable future, I do not need to do anything. That would only change if I found myself in a serious relationship with a guy that I knew was going to last. If that happened, what I would probably do is to say, ‘I have met X’, emphasise that X is crucial to my emotional well-being, and then explain what chain of developments led me to X. That places the focus on a real person, emphasises the emotional connection and makes clear that this is necessary for my happiness. I don’t think it would work to broach any of this in the abstract.

Does this fit together into a coherent picture? Do you see any potential difficulties? Are my conclusions reasonable?

 

[jft245]

On the basis of what you have told us, your parents seem to be decent, loving parents. Although they may have trouble understanding how you are, you make them sound like they will support you and still love you very much.

 

[By-Ear]

I think you have answered your own post:

My parents aren’t ideological homophobes.

On the other side, two former colleagues of my father’s are very probably gay, though no-one ever mentions that possibility; my father liked and respected one professionally, and the other remains a very good family friend.

My mother had a ‘black sheep’ uncle who turned gay among other failings, and he was one of her favourite relatives as a girl and she still speaks very fondly of him.

Most importantly, my parents must have noticed that I have developmental and relationship issues, but they have never pried, never asked, never pushed me, and they have always watched after my privacy in front of their friends.

I had a dangerous moment a couple of months ago in my parents’ house when I had forgotten to close a web page on my computer with, well, some pictures of topless guys on it and I think my father saw it for a split second before I was able to close it. I didn’t bat an eyelid – it could have been some innocent health-related site, right? Anyway, nothing was ever said and my father did not start treating me in any way differently.

The one thing that makes me think that my parents are not in denial is that they used to talk about a future in which I was assumed to be married and have kids, and they have done that less and less in the last couple of years.

They have always supported me and they know I would always support them.

They are in their different ways both very high-minded people. My father has always made a point of giving me, his colleagues, his staff space and expecting them to do the right thing on their own initiative.

One thing that puts me at ease, is this:

... they used to talk about a future in which I was assumed to be married and have kids, and they have done that less and less in the last couple of years.

My mother went on and on about getting married - more and more until I came out. She told me later, that she was in denial. In fact, my comming out to my mother was embedded in one of those "getting married" talks. Only this time it was initiated by me.

I don't know your age - but in general I would say don't postpone it forever.

That's my advice. Now, what is the word for 'gay' in your language (the choice of 'hanshansen' sounds like it could be similar in my language)?

 

[TomahawkEagle]

I really want to come out to my parents but can't and don't know how to. In fact because of the emotional pressure building up, I now have depression and need to take anti-depressants.

I also hate how my parents talk about "when I get married etc.". I really hurts.

 

[Chosen]

I really want to come out to my parents but can't and don't know how to. In fact because of the emotional pressure building up, I now have depression and need to take anti-depressants.

I also hate how my parents talk about "when I get married etc.". I really hurts.

I think i'm beginning to develop depression as a result of being scared to come out, its stupid - but once its done things change, and not always for the best.

But if you feel your ready, and your parents seem cool - if you want to be true to yourself you should definately do it.

 

[By-Ear]

I should have come out to my family and friends much earlier than I did. I was 32 when I finally did. It took 13 years from moving out to coming out - and a lot of mental struggle. Sometimes I would cry "NO" not really knowing why.
At first, I postponed the “coming out” to after I had moved out from my parents place. Later I postponed it to after my 25th birthday – then 27th birthday, then 28th …

At my 30 year birthday party, I was so mentally unstable - you could say fucked up - that I actually verbally hurt some of my friends.
What happened was this: Some days before the party some of my friends made a special birthday slideshow about my "life". We usually did that, when one of us had turned a corner in life and threw a party. I knew it was coming (the slideshow) and I was terrified because I felt they didn't REALLY know me. On the other hand I knew that the slideshow would include some very intimate scenes (played by them of course). One of those would be (and was) about me waking up naked in a dorm basement toilet, all of my cloth laying neatly folded on the floor and my wallet placed on the sink - door locked from inside. Nothing happened at the toilet – I’m sure. I just had a 2 hour blackout after a great improvised party. But this would be on the slideshow and my sister, her husband and my brother would be there too. Knowing that my friends would spice up the scene, you could say that I would be “outed” to my family.
When they were about to shoot the slideshow pictures, they phoned me and asked me to leave my apartment (using some lame excuse as always). I knew what they were up to. They would go through my personal things to find “props” for the slideshow, so I cleared my secret space for some letters and gay porn and went out. I dumped the porn in a garbage bin somewhere (never saw it again) and waited – crying hysterically. When I thought they had finished their job, I went home. I passed them at the front door. I was very angry and said something foolish and went directly to my room. At that time I shared a 2 room apartment with a friend. Nothing sexual – I wasn’t even out to him. He was very worried and somewhat afraid of me. He kept knocking at my door, to ask if anything was wrong. But I couldn’t tell him. I cut him off and gave him “the look”. Poor bastard.
At my birthday party, I became more and more hysterical. I messed up the hole thing - especially the slideshow, after which I kept standing on my balcony, shouting at my flat-mate. The guest went home early. I would have gone home earlier if I didn’t live there.
The next day I calmed down, smoked a lot of cigarettes and decided that things had to change - NEVER AGAIN. I planed how to burn all the bridges to “the land of excuses”. I slipped out hints.
It took me 2 more years to come out and that was only when a female friend came out (bi) to me.


You may have your reasons for staying in the closet. But please don’t stay there longer than necessary. In my point of view it isn’t worth it.

 

[hanshansen]

By-ear, that sounds awful, I'm sorry. So have you come out to your family now? How was that?

The main reason I have decided I need to come out to some people is that I am having a lot of difficulty forming close relationships, and am sick of the loneliness. But my relationship with my parents isn't strained as a result of me not being out to them. I mean, there's this whole area of sex that we don't talk about and where we are closed books to each other. But that's OK. I can talk to them about anything else, I trust them and am relaxed with them. (The only real problem with my parents is that they are overprotective and reluctant to cut the strings: I'm in my late 20s, have been working several years and I only moved out to an apartment in town about a year ago. I still go home most weekends - to get my laundry done, because my parent's suburb has a lot of outdoor lifestyle value, because I don't have much of a social life anyway - and if I don't my mother is clearly upset and wants to know why. I have said to her that her behaviour is having an infantilizing effect. )

 

[hanshansen]

That's my advice. Now, what is the word for 'gay' in your language (the choice of 'hanshansen' sounds like it could be similar in my language)?

I checked your profile, and the answer is no ...

How well do you know the literature outside your country? Hanshansen is an allusion - and a bit of a Freudian slip, I wasn't fully aware of the subtext when I chose it! That's as much of a clue as I'm going to give .

 

[hanshansen]

I think you have answered your own post:
My mother went on and on about getting married - more and more until I came out. She told me later, that she was in denial. In fact, my comming out to my mother was embedded in one of those "getting married" talks. Only this time it was initiated by me.

Sorry, I didn't read your posts together properly when I asked my question before - but how was that? Were there problems afterwards?

 

[hanshansen]

I really want to come out to my parents but can't and don't know how to. In fact because of the emotional pressure building up, I now have depression and need to take anti-depressants.

I also hate how my parents talk about "when I get married etc.". I really hurts.

My conclusions were really driven very much by the particulars of my circumstances and how I understand my parents' psychology, so I'm not sure what to say here. A key thing in my case really is that my parents have never pushed and pried - if they did I would probably be in your situation. (Same in my workplace, interestingly enough - it's a very 'straight' environment, but I guess because of equal employment standards and suchlike, it's also strangely desexualized, so I have never felt my privacy under serious threat there.)

If this is making you that unhappy, you need to do something about it. Either reassess how acute the issue really is - are your parents really that stressed that you don't have a girlfriend? - or bite the bullet and tell them, or move away from where they can monitor you. Other people here will have a better idea about how to approach coming out to your parents. All I would say (a priori) is that you need to think of what works best given your parents' psychology, so that they continue thinking about you as an individual person that they care about rather than some unfamiliar monster.

If you believe this is causing your depression, why on earth is your doctor plying you with pills??

 

[By-Ear]

Sorry, I didn't read your posts together properly when I asked my question before - but how was that? Were there problems afterwards?

I didn't come out to my family before I was out to almost everybody else. I had 3 weeks of coffee, beer and long night café-talks with every single friend of mine – one on one. It gave them time and space to ask their questions – and me to answer them.

My mother was the first family member I told. She called me one night, around 1 or 2 months after the last friend-café-talk. She said something about not knowing what I did and who I was. I decided that it was time for the last step out, so I asked her: “what do you want to know?”, knowing perfectly what this would lead to. She said: “when are you going to start a family – or are you going to live alone for the rest of your life?”. I told her, that I would never start a ‘family’ in her interpretation of the word. She asked me what I meant by that. That’s where I started a 20 minutes monologue about what I was – and to tell you the truth, I don’t remember a word of what I said. The only thing I do remember is that my mother didn’t say a single word. After that I asked her if she didn’t have a clue. … silence … I asked her if she was still there … silence … I heard a “mmm”. To cut a long story short, she was “not happy” about it, but she mustered a: “You are my son and I still love you – but you must tell your farther” at the end.

Because of my mother’s reaction, I called my sister (28 at that time) the next day (from work actually). I told her that I was gay. She said: “Well, it’s not like you have killed someone” …… I told her about our mother’s reaction and asked her to talk to our mother.

From then on it’s like: my mother tells my father while my brother (24 at that time) listens in. My mother is still upset, but my brother defends me. When I saw the family for the first time after coming out to them, the first one I saw was my brother in law, who hugged me and asked me if I was OK.

About a year later, when my mother had been back to normal for some time, I asked her about the ‘coming out’ incident. She told me that she suspected that I was gay, but she had been in denial.

PS: I had postponed the “coming out” for so long that: 1) I felt like I had been living my official life for so long that it would be embarrassing to come out. 2) I had forgotten why I postponed it for so long – but I instantly remembered when I heard my mother’s reaction.


Quid pro quo

Thomas Mann ---> "Schw...." ?

 

[luminum]

I think you don't have a lot to worry about. Your parents are high-minded, and they may be disappointed, but I think they'll still accept you if you tell them. The barrier here is that they seem to be very uncomfortable with the idea of sex, so if you ever introduced them to your partner (male or female) they would probably be uncomfortable at the idea that you and someone else have had sex. You'd probably need to introduce your partner as an emotionally-important being.

Your parents may have their hang ups about a family member being gay, but it looks to me like they'd eventually deal with it.

 

[JackFTwist]

tell your parents

then you never have to worry about someone else telling them

 

[hanshansen]

I didn't come out to my family before I was out to almost everybody else. I had 3 weeks of coffee, beer and long night café-talks with every single friend of mine – one on one. It gave them time and space to ask their questions – and me to answer them.

I thought it was very interesting that you did things in this labor-intensive way. Of course I can understand why – to the extent that people do think that you’re just shy, or maladjusted, or a late developer, when you tell them that there are actually these particular reasons, they may have to readjust their understanding of you in (what seems like) a fundamental way. So you have to take the time to help them do the adjusting. And I guess you are right – the longer you leave it, the longer they will have known the ‘old’ you and the harder the adjustment will be. Or so it seems ex ante. But, your parents and siblings seem in the end to have managed it pretty well.

P.S. Yes

 

[hanshansen]

I think you don't have a lot to worry about. Your parents are high-minded, and they may be disappointed, but I think they'll still accept you if you tell them. The barrier here is that they seem to be very uncomfortable with the idea of sex, so if you ever introduced them to your partner (male or female) they would probably be uncomfortable at the idea that you and someone else have had sex. You'd probably need to introduce your partner as an emotionally-important being.

Your parents may have their hang ups about a family member being gay, but it looks to me like they'd eventually deal with it.

Yes, I think you’re right, and on balance I'm pretty confident things will work out OK. I think, though, if you are embarrassed about sex in general, then sex of the conventional familiar type where babies are the result is the easiest to accept. (That was actually my own honest position for years – I’m generally more conservative than my parents - until I accepted that I won’t change and am therefore a direct beneficiary of the sexual revolution, so not taking a more permissive view would be hypocritical ;-).) As you say, the best strategy in that situation is to focus on the emotional dimension of the attachment.

 

[hanshansen]

tell your parents

then you never have to worry about someone else telling them

There is no-one who has anything to tell them! And if anyone did (say, on a crazy off chance someone who knows me well enough to join the dots reads this stuff), while that would be suboptimal, I would be able to handle it, and it's not a risk I think I need preempt by burdening them with my worries and unresolved issues now (another suboptimal outcome).