Tibet is not the new Gucci bag

[ethan9910]

Politicians are fighting their why to claim this new moral high ground. Celebrities are ditching their sex tapes and African babies now that they have Tibet as their accesory. What about us ordinary people? We live in our free societies and have access to all kinds of information but why do have to choose to listen the ones that are obviously misleading? Think about it. Tomorrow when Olympics is over, no politician is going to talk about Tibet anymore, but we still have to go on with our lives. I don't want to see our compassion and good will being taken advantage by the media and the politicians. Moreover, Tibet is not the next Gucci bag.

 

[moschj]

Anything that highlights the lack of civil rights in China is GOOD!

 

[fiorio]

14th dalai lama do wear Gucci shoes though.

 

[teddy14]

Tibet is not the next Gucci bag.

your right, its a Fendi.

 

[unclaimedblessing]

I fail to see that a frivoulous, expensive status symbol is comparable to the carnage in Tibet.
If "popularity" is the issue, one has to consider that Tibet is quite remote and the information coming out of Tibet is highly controlled.
The aggressor (China) put itself in the limelight by hosting the Olympics.
But the Tibetan situation is not new or trendy. The Dalai Lama, Richard Gere and others have been championing the Tibetan cause for years, largely to deaf, indifferent ears.
China has put itself center stage and now is an opportune time for activists to become more visible. Many who were unaware of the Tibetan crisis are now quite concerned.

 

[star-warrior]

This is truly a sort of bandwagon issue. People join it because it's the in thing at the moment, and not realising what they're criticising or supporting.

Many of the people who have been killed in the riots are from both Chinese and Tibetan ethnic backgrounds, and the riots in Tibet last month was done by ethnic Tibetans. When these rioters kill people, it does not do their cause justice.

China's move to restore order is something any other government would do in the face of rioting. American troops were sent into the Los Angeles riots in 1992, for instance.

People think that most of the deaths were due to the Chinese 'crackdown' as in restoring peace and detaining the rioters. But, since foreign media isn't allowed in to investigate this accusation leveled at China by the pro-Free Tibet movement outside China, it goes unsaid by foreign media. Most of the reporting has been anti-China in tone and content.

The Free Tibet movement aims to use disinformation based on China's past deeds as justification. As spectators in the events, and subject to the interpretations that the non-Chinese media has placed upon the situation, you can see that the deaths of innocent Tibetans and Chinese by the hands of ethnic Tibetans is manipulated into being a "Chinese crackdown" because China is a Communist country, and it controls Tibet.

In a large part, the problem lies with the veracity of the reporting, and the inaccessibility to the region. Once the Olympics are over, the same problems will be there. Mr. Gere will return to being a small voice in the background noise of everyday life again, and the world moves on to another thing to occupy it's attention, maybe another 9-11.

 

[fiorio]

This is truly a sort of bandwagon issue. People join it because it's the in thing at the moment, and not realising what they're criticising or supporting.

Many of the people who have been killed in the riots are from both Chinese and Tibetan ethnic backgrounds, and the riots in Tibet last month was done by ethnic Tibetans. When these rioters kill people, it does not do their cause justice.

China's move to restore order is something any other government would do in the face of rioting. American troops were sent into the Los Angeles riots in 1992, for instance.

People think that most of the deaths were due to the Chinese 'crackdown' as in restoring peace and detaining the rioters. But, since foreign media isn't allowed in to investigate this accusation leveled at China by the pro-Free Tibet movement outside China, it goes unsaid by foreign media. Most of the reporting has been anti-China in tone and content.

The Free Tibet movement aims to use disinformation based on China's past deeds as justification. As spectators in the events, and subject to the interpretations that the non-Chinese media has placed upon the situation, you can see that the deaths of innocent Tibetans and Chinese by the hands of ethnic Tibetans is manipulated into being a "Chinese crackdown" because China is a Communist country, and it controls Tibet.

In a large part, the problem lies with the veracity of the reporting, and the inaccessibility to the region. Once the Olympics are over, the same problems will be there. Mr. Gere will return to being a small voice in the background noise of everyday life again, and the world moves on to another thing to occupy it's attention, maybe another 9-11.

exactly, people felt like they are doing the right, moral, justice thing. nobody really care about what really happened, what is the truth, the complexity of the issue.

I believe many pro-tibet independence westerners have a good heart. Human rights, liberty, those are the values I also believe. But i'm afraid their good hearts were being used by US-CIA-Dalai Lama anti-China campaign.

 

[ethan9910]

ethan.. people have been talking about Tibet since China invaded. Think back 8 years when Bejing was going for the Olympics and the furour it caused when they were granted the games because of their record on human rights violations. I still remember Tinanmin Square (spelling may be wrong). That's an image and memory I will never forget.

Are people generally aware that there is propaganda involved in all this? Of course they are. But if you're going to be honest about this situation you have to admit, China hasn't really done all that much to endear itself on the human rights and world stage since Mao Tse Tong created his ideal of utopia.

I agree with you that China's human rights records still need to be improved - but its really not that bad.

The problem is many westerners still view China as a group of soldiers on Tiananmen Square led by Mao Tze Dong and have a sense of moral superiority based on that. On the other hand, ordinary Chinese people don't buy into that moral superiority since somehow they still see the westerners as the bandits who sold them opiums and invaded their country in 19th century.

 

[Kulindahr]

Many of the people who have been killed in the riots are from both Chinese and Tibetan ethnic backgrounds, and the riots in Tibet last month was done by ethnic Tibetans. When these rioters kill people, it does not do their cause justice.

China's move to restore order is something any other government would do in the face of rioting. American troops were sent into the Los Angeles riots in 1992, for instance.

People think that most of the deaths were due to the Chinese 'crackdown' as in restoring peace and detaining the rioters. But, since foreign media isn't allowed in to investigate this accusation leveled at China by the pro-Free Tibet movement outside China, it goes unsaid by foreign media. Most of the reporting has been anti-China in tone and content.

The Free Tibet movement aims to use disinformation based on China's past deeds as justification. As spectators in the events, and subject to the interpretations that the non-Chinese media has placed upon the situation, you can see that the deaths of innocent Tibetans and Chinese by the hands of ethnic Tibetans is manipulated into being a "Chinese crackdown" because China is a Communist country, and it controls Tibet.

Los Angeles was part of a state among fifty in the United States; it was not a foreign country invaded by the U.S. military and flooded with U.S. citizens to try to absorb it. Comparing the use of troops to keep order for the citizens who weren't rioting to the use of troops to continue imposition of conquest is deceitful.

If you want a comparison that will stand, what Chinese troops are doing in Tibet is far more akin to what U.S. soldiers are doing in Iraq: having invaded a sovereign nation, they're trying to discourage anyone from carrying out their purposes. Of course the purposes are entirely different -- the U.S. wants to settle things down so the troops can go home, while China wants to crush opposition so its troops will never go home.

So of course "Most of the reporting has been anti-China in tone and content"! China is an invader, a one-party authoritarian despotism, and deserves to be exposed as such. Those on-the-spot, eye-witness vids tell the story: troops of a conqueror using force and bloodshed to prevent a subject population from enjoying their inalienable right to self-determination.

 

[Kulindahr]

How many Gucci bags would it take to carry off Tibet without the Chinese noticing?

 

[Kurn]

China is figuring itself out like everyone else.

 

[ethan9910]

Los Angeles was part of a state among fifty in the United States; it was not a foreign country invaded by the U.S. military and flooded with U.S. citizens to try to absorb it.

Kulindahr - Los Angeles was part of Mexico. the U.S did seize it from the Mexicans and "flooded with U.S. citizens to try to absorb it". The U.S. as a country is built on Indians' land and many of them were killed.

In terms of Tibet, you better give yourself a history lesson before you make any judgment. But I can tell you even the current Dalai Lama agrees Tibet is part of China and he doesn't intend to seek independence.

Your "on-the-spot, eye-witness vids" simply do not exist in from this riot. Nothing has shown Tibetans are killed because they have been peacefully march on the street. But there are pictures and vids showing innocent people killed by rioters, if you bother to read news outside of Western media you will find them.

 

[star-warrior]

Kul, before the US was settled, wasn't it native American land? Didn't frontiersmen and settlers claim the soil as theirs and in doing so killed tribes of native American indians? So what if you've brought 'civilisation' to the natives? Where is the inalienable rights to self determination when you corner the Indians on reservations and impose on their children a strict diet of Christianity and alchohol, and the stamping out of their folk religion, languages, culture and customs?

I like how you play down your own past and attack China. Pot, kettle, black, I say. Way to go!

 

[unclaimedblessing]

What was done to the American Indian was a terrible travesty. So was everything else done in this whole hemisphere when it was discovered and colonized at the height of European Imperialism. If China, Japan or India were powerful enough at the time, they very well might have participated from the Pacific side, but that's blatant speculation.
Returning the American SW to Mexico is ludicrous and not comparable to today's situation. If an impartial survey were conducted, one would be hard pressed to find any resident of California, Arizona, New Mexico or Texas who wanted to return to Mexico. That includeds US citizens of Mexican descent and illegal residents from Mexico or other Latin countries. People don't risk their lives daily getting here to have the management of this area returned to Mexico. They wouldn't risk their lives on a daily basis to enter illegally just to have this area revert to Mexican control, what would they have gained?
The majority of Tibetans however, apparently do want separation from Chinese control.
Some of the Western US was taken in war, but some was bought and paid for (the Gadsden Purchase, Alaska etc).
The situation in no part parallels the situation in Tibet.

 

[star-warrior]

Cecessation of any part of America seems unthinkable to Americans, just like the cessation of Tibet from China to the Chinese. That's it in a nutshell.

 

[unclaimedblessing]

There isn't a state or region of the USA that threatens or wants cessation.
Tibet is an entirely different scenario.

 

[star-warrior]

Nonetheless, the Dala Lama has said that he doesn't want Tibet to split from China, and wishes the Olympic Games in Beijing to go ahead.

 

[unclaimedblessing]

It's highly possible that the Dalai Lama made those statements to protect his people. He undoubtedly can predict the "saving face" reaction of the PRC.

Again, regarding areas of the USA wanting to secede; the only possible area to fit that comment is the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico. They are free to hold and have held elections on that issue. The options to become independent, attain statehood or continue status quo results are fairly close, with maintaining status quo attaining a slight majority.
Again quite unlike Tibet, because the Puerto Rican people have a free say in determining their future.

 

[ethan9910]

If China, Japan or India were powerful enough at the time, they very well might have participated from the Pacific side, but that's blatant speculation.
...
The majority of Tibetans however, apparently do want separation from Chinese control.

unclaimedblessing - i find people having hard time arguing with you because you already made up your mind on what you wanted to believe and created these speculations to accommodate your opinions.

 

[star-warrior]

It's highly possible that the Dalai Lama made those statements to protect his people. He undoubtedly can predict the "saving face" reaction of the PRC.

My sister has been to Tibet, back packing and she was unhindered with ther non-asian hiking friends she met along the way. She said many of the places she visited in Lhasa, and across Tibet was peaceful, vibrant, and the people there got on with their daily lives unhindered.

When she saw the news reports of places which had been burnt down and wrecked in the violent riots, she said she was saddened because she remembers being there, or had bought stuff in those shops.

You would prefer the rioters continued their spree of killings (of their own Tibetan people as well as Chinese) as a statement for peace?

The Dalai Lama rightly disassociated himself with the deaths since the western expectations of Buddhism doesn't allow for a violent Buddhist. History of Buddhism in Tibet shows that isn't true. The monks who kicked down the shop shutters, and their fellow rioters who set fire to shops and beat people on the street, should they not be stopped?

"His own people" inside Tibet wants to gain independence through violence. I don't think it will work. Whatever his words do, they smack of insincerity to the PRC government because he says one thing, and his followers do another.