TIPPING on VACATION

[zoltanspawn]

Which proves my point. They want paid more to do their job well.

We shouldn’t have to bribe someone to do their job correctly. Nor should we have to pay more just so their employers can get away with paying them less.

Providing incentives for good performance makes sense to me.

 

[TickTockMan]

Providing incentives for good performance makes sense to me.

It does if it comes from the employer. What you are calling an incentive, I call a bribe. People should do their jobs well because they are their jobs.

Also I have no problem with tips. I have a problem with servers feeling it is entitled to them.

Tipping 15% for good service is just insulting. Going out to eat is a luxury if you cannot fully afford that luxury then don't put someone who is trying to make a living through your bullshit just to stiff them in the end.

A tip is an add-on, but there are those that believe people should just pay it because they showed up for work. Eating out is not a true luxury. And even if it was; a gratuity is just that. Something from gratitude.

 

[josher]

Ok - here's a question...if you get a haircut how much do you tip? That's always been a toughie because last time I was in the states it was 14 bucks for just the basic cut. Here it's about 8. So - I felt it was overpriced - job no but took a couple of minutes anyway so how could much of a tip be justified.

Unless they own the barbershop/salon, the person cutting your hair does not get the $ 14. They either get a salary (possibly hourly minimum wage) or a percentage of the price of the service. Just like a waitperson, the tip supplements their minimal salary. I give $2 or 3 dollars for an $10 - 15 dollar haircut, depending on how long the haircut took, which in my case is usually 5 minutes to 15 minutes.

There are those who say the owner of a barbershop/salon shouldn't be tipped because they receive the largest part of the fees generated by the whole staff, but you wouldn't get very good service, if you try that out.

 

[zoltanspawn]

It does if it comes from the employer. What you are calling an incentive, I call a bribe. People should do their jobs well because they are their jobs.

Also I have no problem with tips.

In real practice, and not in the realm of shoulds, the incentive is to provide better service approaching excellence. If "doing their jobs well" is the only standard it's very poor. Most customers want and appreciate better service than that, and most are willing to pay for it. Tips are a powerful incentive to that end, and I think probably more powerful than all the carrots and sticks a manager might be able to dole out.

However, if the non-problem with tips you have were to be resolved by eliminating them, how will the cost of service be accounted for? You suggest the employer, but what that really means is simply that the cost of service is already included in the price of the deal. You may believe that the quality of service will be equal under these terms. I do not.

I have a problem with servers feeling it is entitled to them.

I have a problem with people who feel entitled to service without accounting for its labor.

 

[Willie Boy]

In real practice, and not in the realm of shoulds, the incentive is to provide better service approaching excellence. If "doing their jobs well" is the only standard it's very poor. Most customers want and appreciate better service than that, and most are willing to pay for it. Tips are a powerful incentive to that end, and I think probably more powerful than all the carrots and sticks a manager might be able to dole out.

However, if the non-problem with tips you have were to be resolved by eliminating them, how will the cost of service be accounted for? You suggest the employer, but what that really means is simply that the cost of service is already included in the price of the deal. You may believe that the quality of service will be equal under these terms. I do not.



I have a problem with people who feel entitled to service without accounting for its labor.

The rest of us have a problem with service personnel who refuse to provide service. Many of us are willing to pay extra for excellent service. We just have yet to find it.

There are far too many "workers" in the service industry who clearly do not want to be there. Their attitude and behavior shows they are only there for their paycheck. Are you suggesting we pay them extra for their rudeness?

 

[Hellax24]

It's manners plain and simple. Either you have them or you don't. You want to eat out and don't want to tip stick to the drive-thru's.

Should you pay for poor service? No. I don't so i don't expect anyone else should.However, If your server is friendly, makes you feel welcome, has great menu knowledge takes the time to build a rapport (which is not always easy) suggests items from the menu based on the little bit they have been able to gleam from 5 -10 minutes, makes sure your glass is never empty, anticipates what you will need to go with your meal (I.E. condiments, wet naps,etc) makes sure your meal is the way you wanted it, the food comes out in a timely manner according to how you ordered it, cleans the dishes away in- between courses, while taking care of 3 -4 other tables with various amounts of guests then they deserve a good tip. If you think all of that is not worth a decent tip 20% then stay at home.

There are many things that go into serving. People don't just take orders and bring food to your table. We help prepare your food, we stock the kitchen with plates, utensils, glasses, etc Hell, sometimes we jump back there and wash the damn dishes.We make it look seamless. Bottom line, is people go out to eat because they want to relax and enjoy themselves and deserve a good experience good servers do that, then there are others that don't give as good of service.

20% is a fair starting point and can go either way. There are restaurants that add gratuity for you. I'm sure there are people that complain about that. If you don't think you should have to tip then please stay home. People work for a living the same as you and deserve to be compensated for that work.

CXXX

 

[zoltanspawn]

Willie Boy, in my purview customers seem happy to pay about 20% for what they receive. I'm not sure how you infer that I would want you to "pay extra for rudeness." I was replying to Thynight that the cost of labor must be accounted for somehow, and that the system of tipping 1) does that and 2) provides a powerful incentive for good performance. Have you truly never enjoyed excellent service? What a shame.

Mikami, won't the customer *always* "make up for what the person is not making" somehow?

 

[Willie Boy]

Willie Boy, in my purview customers seem happy to pay about 20% for what they receive. I'm not sure how you infer that I would want you to "pay extra for rudeness." I was replying to Thynight that the cost of labor must be accounted for somehow, and that the system of tipping 1) does that and 2) provides a powerful incentive for good performance. Have you truly never enjoyed excellent service? What a shame.

Mikami, won't the customer *always* "make up for what the person is not making" somehow?

The problem is (and others have said this as well) is that it truly is the responsibility of the employer to pay his/her employees. The whole point of tipping was a way for the customer to show appreciation for the level of quality service. Sadly this has become convoluted. The employers being cheap and wanting to withhold rightfully earned wages from their employees, and the employees who (rightly) feel cheated and want to recover that money. The customer is the one who ultimately loses out in this situation, as we are compelled to act as employer and pay the extra, no matter what kind of service we receive. We end up being judged, not so much based on our own merits, but on how the servers day (week/month/life) has been going, on how their boss treats them, how they suspect we will treat (tip) them based on how we compare to others. And if our level of appreciation does not match their own level of self value, we are said to have poor (or no) manners. This is why I prefer fast food restaurants. The workers are friendly and have no expectation of receiving extra moneys (in fact many of them are not allowed to take tips, which is sad as many of them actually deserve it! ).

I do not go to fancy dining establishments. Even though I can afford to spend $200 for a $30 meal, I choose not to. The more casual dining establishments refuse to pay their employees enough to retain decent workers and expect the customer to pay the employee's wage on top of the cost of the meal.

 

[ericwhitney]

15% standard in restaurants, going up with excellent service
$2-5 a night for the hotel maid (come on guys, she earns min wage and has a few kids)

 

[BINOWGAYLATER]

okay -= just a blasted minute here.

The discussion went to shit over SERVICE -- and ENTITILEMENT AND COST OF doing business etc.

Well - here's another perspective for y'all.

I work in Retail - (not my career of choice) I provide SERVICE to customers every day - I get lousy pay for my efforts.
If i don't provide good service -- I would lose my job.
I don't get TIPS for taking care of my customers. Yet I have to walk them around a very big store -- find them things they are too lazy to locate on their own, answer their questions, tell them (occasionally) that those are really nice earings) -- and carry medium-heavy items out to their car for them -- again - Providing the EXTRA service that will hopefully keep them comming back and keep me employed. I DON'T GET FREEKING TIPS for that!! i barely get a thank you - and the occasional - what's your name - i want to tell the Manager how nice you are !!
So if SERVERS want to get EXTRA MONEY - they need to provide service ABOVE AND BEYOND.
Only 2 of us are eating out togeher -
I'm not ordering drinks, appetizers, salads, entrees AND desserts - and then more coffee, and more coffee - and extra napkins -and whatever --
My visit does not require 50 trips back and forth to take care of me --
bring some water, then the food -
then the check with the pie - if you're fucking organized enuff to figure that out -- and save some steps --
but don't expect and $6.00 tip for dropping a couple burgers on the table and NOT coming back to even ask if i want more coffee. then taking another 10 minutes to get around to bringing me my check. Even with a smile on your face, and a thanks for visiting us today - $5.00 is a lot of entitlement.

 

[BINOWGAYLATER]

If I'm paying the check for a party of 6 (it's a bitch to collect from everyone - but i make sure to include 20% for a larger group !!

When i had an annual salary with comma(s) - i ALWAYS tipped 20% unless the service was totally SHIT !

IF the server set off my gaydar - I'd put $3.00 on the table and slip him 5 - and say - this doesn't go into the pooled tips, K? have a nice nite !!! KISS KISS !

 

[zoltanspawn]

The problem is (and others have said this as well) is that it truly is the responsibility of the employer to pay his/her employees. The whole point of tipping was a way for the customer to show appreciation for the level of quality service. Sadly this has become convoluted. The employers being cheap and wanting to withhold rightfully earned wages from their employees, and the employees who (rightly) feel cheated and want to recover that money. The customer is the one who ultimately loses out in this situation, as we are compelled to act as employer and pay the extra, no matter what kind of service we receive. We end up being judged, not so much based on our own merits, but on how the servers day (week/month/life) has been going, on how their boss treats them, how they suspect we will treat (tip) them based on how we compare to others. And if our level of appreciation does not match their own level of self value, we are said to have poor (or no) manners. This is why I prefer fast food restaurants. The workers are friendly and have no expectation of receiving extra moneys (in fact many of them are not allowed to take tips, which is sad as many of them actually deserve it! ).

I do not go to fancy dining establishments. Even though I can afford to spend $200 for a $30 meal, I choose not to. The more casual dining establishments refuse to pay their employees enough to retain decent workers and expect the customer to pay the employee's wage on top of the cost of the meal.

Willie Boy, let's imagine we have done away with the longstanding custom of tipping you find so unjust. (And put aside the question of whether the quality of service customers would enjoy would be equal.) In our unlikely hypothetical it is now truly the responsibility of the employer to pay his/her employees (more than minimum wage, plainly). Where do you think the employer will get the money to pay her employees? (Wishful thinking won't make it come from a magic bag.) Do you think the cost of labor will be accounted for in the customer's bill? How compelled will the customer then be to "pay the extra" no matter what kind of service they receive? I believe you may actually be arguing against yourself.

As you are flush with cash, next time you're in your favorite fast food joint and you feel overwhelmed by the friendliness of the minimum wage slaves, my advice is to brazenly disregard policy and give them an extra five bucks. I guarantee they'll be delighted and you might even get some free ketchup or something.

 

[zoltanspawn]

Sounds good in theory.
But it's been studied, and the fact is that in the US, people generally tip almost the same whether service is good or bad (unless the service is really, really bad, in which case they may not leave any tip). In addition, if the purpose of tipping is solely to control quality of service, why do people who never plan to return to a place pay any tip at all?

Unclean, maybe the servers haven't read those studies? The incentive to earn tips by providing excellent service remains functional in spite of them. Of course, it is the prospect of a tip which helps increase quality of service quite often, and only the tip itself with established customers.

I don't think I've argued anywhere that a tip isn't also a show a gratitude. Gratitude is good. Thanks!

 

[zoltanspawn]

Unclean, there's some interesting stuff in that article, and I'll look it over more carefully when I get a chance. But I'm comfortable, quickly speaking, rendering the judgement that one restaurant in the U.S. eliminating tipping doesn't really transform the hypothetical into the practical all that meaningfully. Yes, it can be done. No, that doesn't mean much. My original point stands regardless: that the cost of labor will be accounted for by the customer somehow. There's no magic bag full of money.

 

[Willie Boy]

Willie Boy, let's imagine we have done away with the longstanding custom of tipping you find so unjust. (And put aside the question of whether the quality of service customers would enjoy would be equal.) In our unlikely hypothetical it is now truly the responsibility of the employer to pay his/her employees (more than minimum wage, plainly). Where do you think the employer will get the money to pay her employees? (Wishful thinking won't make it come from a magic bag.) Do you think the cost of labor will be accounted for in the customer's bill? How compelled will the customer then be to "pay the extra" no matter what kind of service they receive? I believe you may actually be arguing against yourself.

As you are flush with cash, next time you're in your favorite fast food joint and you feel overwhelmed by the friendliness of the minimum wage slaves, my advice is to brazenly disregard policy and give them an extra five bucks. I guarantee they'll be delighted and you might even get some free ketchup or something.

It is obvious you don't have the simple intelligence of a tree slug so I am not going to explain my post. I will suggest you learn to understand written English and then reread my post. You will then learn quite a bit, most specifically that I never suggested doing away with tips and tipping. What I did suggest was that employers start paying their employees for doing the job. Maybe then the custom of tipping can get back to its original purpose as a form of appreciation on the part of the customer, and a mirror of the quality of service that was provided to them, not as a subsidy of the employer's pocketbook.

You would be one of those servers who's thumb would slip into the soup which you would spill as you attempt to set it on the table. Then, upset that you were required to clean it up, you would not pay attention and knock the cups and glasses over. From there, your quality of service would go downhill. At the end of the meal, you would be irate with the customers for not enjoying your poor service and not offering you a tip that you would argue with them, demanding that they pay you a 200% tip as well as paying their own dry cleaning (for the clothing you spilled so many different items on) as well as covering the cost of all the dishes you destroyed providing your service. Please do the world a favor and get out of the service industry as you are NOT cut out for it.

 

[milktea]

with good service comes good tip....!!!

 

[TickTockMan]

Willie Boy, let's imagine we have done away with the longstanding custom of tipping you find so unjust. (And put aside the question of whether the quality of service customers would enjoy would be equal.) In our unlikely hypothetical it is now truly the responsibility of the employer to pay his/her employees (more than minimum wage, plainly). Where do you think the employer will get the money to pay her employees? (Wishful thinking won't make it come from a magic bag.) Do you think the cost of labor will be accounted for in the customer's bill? How compelled will the customer then be to "pay the extra" no matter what kind of service they receive? I believe you may actually be arguing against yourself.

That’s the difference though. That would be the price. You can't order something and then not pay full price. You guys want the price plus 20% or more. Furthermore it is insulting to have too bribe someone to do their job.

I use to be a boss of a large crew and if my crew didn’t do their job, they didn’t have one for much longer. You’re saying if you want it done right and all the way pay me more. Why should we, it’s your job?


I liken it to a plumber that wants extra to tighten the pipes all the way. If you don’t pay extra he will let the pipes leak. That’s not doing the job, just as a server that half asses it because they don’t know if they will get “their” bribe.

What you are calling extra service, I think those of us against your argument call basic service. That is the problem. We have a standard of service, where you guys a thought of entitlement.

As you are flush with cash, next time you're in your favorite fast food joint and you feel overwhelmed by the friendliness of the minimum wage slaves, my advice is to brazenly disregard policy and give them an extra five bucks. I guarantee they'll be delighted and you might even get some free ketchup or something.

That’s a good way to get them fired. They would be better off without the tip.

 

[Hellax24]

Ok Let me dumb it down again.

If you have a server that is on point and has given great service, They deserve more then 15%. If a server couldn't care less about you and it shows then of course the tip goes down, if they even get one. No one ever said to tip 20% regardless of the level of service.

It's funny how people are talking about Entitlement when it seems you think you are entitled to excellent service and shouldn't have to tip for it. We all know how restaurants work factor in your tip before you leave the house. Do a great job 20%, not so great less then 20%. I mean you spend 20-25 bucks on a meal you tip between 4-5 dollars.If that's such a hardship for you then you don't need to go out and sit down to eat. Hell I tip on take out orders.

CXXX

 

[TickTockMan]

Ok Let me dumb it down again.

If you have a server that is on point and has given great service, They deserve more then 15%. If a server couldn't care less about you and it shows then of course the tip goes down, if they even get one. No one ever said to tip 20% regardless of the level of service.

It's funny how people are talking about Entitlement when it seems you think you are entitled to excellent service and shouldn't have to tip for it. We all know how restaurants work factor in your tip before you leave the house. Do a great job 20%, not so great less then 20%. I mean you spend 20-25 bucks on a meal you tip between 4-5 dollars.If that's such a hardship for you then you don't need to go out and sit down to eat. Hell I tip on take out orders.

CXXX

It’s not entitlement to expect someone to do their job. I am not your employer, I am the customer. Why would I pay you to do your job? I pay for a service. You are saying you want extra to do that service well, one you are paid to do. Take it up to your employer.

 

[thisisinteresting]

No one ever said to tip 20% regardless of the level of service.

I'm pretty sure you did like 4 posts before this one. You were hella butthurt over the concept of tipping someone 15%. You were taught 20% was the standard and then it just applies to everyone else in the world. I used to work in a tipping industry and the only worse than a bad tipper are servers who bitch about tips. These people don't have to leave you any money, whether it's socially acceptable or not there are no true rules. This fact alone should make people gracious when they get anything at all. Sure it sucks to work your ass off and not get tipped like you would expect but there really IS a 'get over it.'

I used to work in coffee where the standard isn't even a percentage, it's a dollar. One dollar. You could order a 30 dollar order with five drinks, a toasted bagel with the cream cheese spread on it because they are too lazy AND a custom made sandwich, people will still just tip you a dollar. It's still a free dollar for doing my job. I know that serving is hard work, very fast-paced, stressful, adaptive... Nonetheless I have done harder work in industries that don't tip me. Tips are nice but you can't let them spoil you or ruin your day.

Just because people SHOULD do things doesn't mean they will, quit getting your panties in a twist over it. There's a lot of things people SHOULD do - have you ever driven a car? Do people EVER do what they're supposed to do, like pay attention to other people on the road?

In my opinion, it's really easy to read a customer from the very first interaction and see if they are worth that extra mile you want to go to get a nice tip. If you don't, then learn from the experience. Getting upset over it doesn't help anyone. Some overzealous jaded server bitching about how you should give them more free money is not exactly a convincing reason. Each one of your posts I read made me want to tip servers less and less.

IN OTHER NEWS

My serving pet peeve is a server who won't ever refill my water glass.

I agree that an on point server deserves more than 15% tip, anybody who has served people understands that. Your approach is all wrong, though. You are far too expectant. Expecting people to go above and beyond just leads to disappointment. I really do understand getting frustrated over it but that's when I realize you have the wrong attitude about the whole thing.