To No A Veil

[Leidian]

.....another veil thread.......wow....

 

[Soilwork]

aside from the fact that I think making their women wear veils is lame and pathetic, my attitude is that if she has to wear that veil, she may as well be a good Muslim woman and stay at home, hidden from view.

Totally pathetic and ridiculous.

Hope she gets her dumb ass fired. I don't think I'd allow a bad role model like that ANYWHERE near my children.

 

[cocktales]

I am ALL for religious freedoms; but folks, it has to STOP some where when it gets kinda difficult.

What if she is teaching "little" kids, from Great Britian, and they are NOT use to being taught by some one totally covered from head to toe with just their eyes showing....

I mean, little kids need to be touched, to be held and to feel like they are safe and protected in their environment......

NOT in this situation where they canNOT even see their teacher!!

I think that when two cultures clash, the invading culture MUST alter their religious beliefs some what to allow for the difference!

Religious beliefs canNOT trump the teaching of small children...or in this case a linguist where her mouth MUST be seen by the students so that they can form their lips/mouth to make the sound in another language...

I think some religions are delibertly making waves just to test the water to see just how far they can go with their culture changes!

 

[greaves]

Aisha Azmi says she is "fearful of the consequences for Muslim women in this country (UK) who want to work."

She seems to be unaware that significant numbers of Muslim women already work in the UK, and have been doing so for decades. So her remarks are not only an insult to working Muslim women, they are also an insult to the multicultural country she chooses to live in.

As other posters have hinted at, you suspect there is a fundamentalist Muslim MAN, (or imam), lurking in the background of this story, hiding behind his own veil of secrecy.

 

[Lube]

If the point for the students is about seeing her lips, I wonder if both sides would agree to a compromise, where she wears a veil that exposes her lips somehow.

It's pretty obvious people believe in 'multiculturalism' as long as the other culture isn't visibly different from their own. Seems pretty weak to me.

 

[belamy]

A person cannot teach language without showing their mouth and showing how words are articulated. She did not dress appropriately for her job.

This is all about beliefs, and it´s useless to try to make someone understand about a "superiority" of certain values over the others. The deep basis of the Western thinking is not so much democracy or feminism or christianism as the ability to deal with the new and the different and evolve accordingly.
That you will never succeed in making any haughty European understand, a people too horrified and proud at the same time of the past of that part of the world. They got rid of the theocratic vision of the world and naively expect everyone to be enlighted by their principles, while not realizing that nobody in one´s daily life lives according to an abstract exercise of thinking that leaves aside (NOT gets rid of) beliefs and prejudices, but according to acquired habits and beliefs.

So, in short , when a enlightened Europeans (or Westerner like any US citizen) appeals to principles like freedom or equality they think they are appealing to reason, while they are simply exposing their beliefs, which they can´t reason upon because, having been received, not created and really assimilated, they can´t really defend by sound argumentation and reasoning. So, when it´s belief agaisnt belife, what result can we expect..?

The Americans, on the contrary, have still the advantage of not being developed (yet) any psychical complex deep enough to distort their mental action (whatever it be), can make an easy appeal to freedom of religion and belief.

 

[belamy]

Ok, here is the edited and complete version of previous post. Ten minutes for editing: what a bitch for belamy!

This is all about beliefs, and it´s useless to try to make someone understand about a "superiority" of certain values over the others. The deep basis of the Western thinking is not so much democracy or feminism or christianism as the ability to deal with the new and the different and evolve accordingly.
That you will never succeed in making any haughty European understand, a people too horrified and proud at the same time of the past of that part of the world. They got rid of the theocratic vision of the world and naively expect everyone to be enlighted by their principles, while not realizing that nobody in one´s daily life lives according to an abstract exercise of thinking that leaves aside (WHICH DOESN´T MEAN getting rid of) beliefs and prejudices, but according to acquired habits and beliefs.

So, in short , when enlightened Europeans (or Westerners in general, like any US citizen) appeal to principles like freedom or equality they think they are appealing to reason, while they are simply exposing their beliefs, which they can´t reason upon because, having been received, not developed and really assimilated, they can´t really defend by sound argumentation and reasoning. They belief in freedom of speech as others believe in God or Allah, and can´t reason much about it because their beliefs, like all belifes, are simply true. So, when it´s belief agaisnt belief, what result can we expect..?

The Americans, on the contrary, have still the advantage of not having developed (yet) any psychical complex deep enough to distort their mental action (whatever that be), and can make an easy appeal to freedom of religion and belief.

The so-called multiculturality is basically folclorism. Catalonia and Spain are just beginning to deal with it and, like any other European (they are Anglo-German-French snobisms apart, Europeans too) is as badly equipped as any other region of that corner of the world. Only the leftist ecumenism is willing to deal openly with them, but the truth is that a true European believes the European character has been already fixed for the centuries to come; they believe they have reached a peak of development very much resembling the utopic planet earth of the Star Trek series, and so any novelty is perceived as an attack to that achieved, that conquered perfection.

Catalan TV broadcasts shows about inmigration which reduce the culture of inmigrants to basically just new dishes to cook, because they take for granted that nobody can suggest the slightest deviation to their fundamental vision of the world.

Still, I´m curious to see how the US may deal in the future with those issues, if wasp fundamentalism laid for two centuries over the true principles of US citizenship is ever challenged by dramatic social changes in the cultural structure of the country.

 

[belamy]

EDIT:
Third paragraph: After "developed and really assimilated": "not having ever faced the intricacies of the concepts implied by the words they are used to utter,"

Fifth: After "so-called multiculturality": , at least as it is preached by leftist Spaniards and Catalan people,

Sixth: "slightest deviation" reads better: "reasonable contribution that may differ from...".


Apart from a mispelling and bad punctuation here and there you may have noticed

 

[belamy]

Oh, and nobody dares to think I´m proud of that post, I know it can be better written, let alone written meatier, smoother transitions and more developed and all that, but I hope the basic concepts may pass to whoever is willing to listen.

MORE EDITING: It´s obvious that the fifth paragraph should have included the concept of "inmigrants" and "inmigration" to which the grammar obviously appeals.

 

[NameTaken]

My non-biased opinion: They should let them have it outside of jobs where you need to be able to see the face, such as public serviceman or TEACHER. She was teaching students Enligh as a secondary language. English, like many languages is not purely spoken, it also includes non-verbal communication like paralanguage, FACIAL EXPPRESIONS, etc. These students need to learn ALL aspects of communicating in English as that's what they are PAYING to learn.

My biased opinion: Most of the women wearing them are being forced physically, mentally, or CULTURALLY into doing so. I think they would be happy (but never admit to it for fear f being looked down upon by other Muslims) to have them be outlawed. And I DO think they create a cultural rift and make integration into the British society harder for them.

 

[james1200]

belamy...i missed your nonsense. thank god you're back.

 

[belamy]

belamy...i missed your nonsense. thank god you're back.

You mean you took no homeopathy while I was away?!

 

[james1200]

LOL...that's what i'm talkin about...i have no idea what you just said.

 

[belamy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy

 

[slobone]

My non-biased opinion: They should let them have it outside of jobs where you need to be able to see the face, such as public serviceman or TEACHER. She was teaching students Enligh as a secondary language. English, like many languages is not purely spoken, it also includes non-verbal communication like paralanguage, FACIAL EXPPRESIONS, etc. These students need to learn ALL aspects of communicating in English as that's what they are PAYING to learn.

My biased opinion: Most of the women wearing them are being forced physically, mentally, or CULTURALLY into doing so. I think they would be happy (but never admit to it for fear f being looked down upon by other Muslims) to have them be outlawed. And I DO think they create a cultural rift and make integration into the British society harder for them.

Are you sure you're not just saying, If they don't agree with me there's something wrong with them? Why are you so sure your own beliefs aren't the result of mental or cultural compulsion?

I have no doubt that most of these women, especially in the West, are covered up because that's what they genuinely believe is right. I have no desire to interfere with them in the practice of their religion.

Westerners often assume, on the basis of not much evidence, that everybody everywhere would think and behave the same way we do, if only they were free to do so. Surely it's becoming increasingly obvious that that's not the case.

 

[Lube]

^^^ What slobone said. In spades.

 

[NameTaken]

Are you sure you're not just saying, If they don't agree with me there's something wrong with them? Why are you so sure your own beliefs aren't the result of mental or cultural compulsion?

I have no doubt that most of these women, especially in the West, are covered up because that's what they genuinely believe is right. I have no desire to interfere with them in the practice of their religion.

Westerners often assume, on the basis of not much evidence, that everybody everywhere would think and behave the same way we do, if only they were free to do so. Surely it's becoming increasingly obvious that that's not the case.

Holy.... freaking.... crap... That's why I said that part was the BIASED part of my opinion.

 

[greaves]

Little support, either in the UK Muslim community or in the rest of the UK, for Aishah Azmi. See:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,542-2414261,00.html

 

[belamy]

Holy.... freaking.... crap... That's why I said that part was the BIASED part of my opinion.

By that meaning the moment you stop thinking and allow yourself to surrender to the sacred irrational prejudices the Westerners feel entitled to let cap their sham reasonings.

 

[belamy]

It is interesting how confident we are about "how Westerners think."

Yes, one thing is trying to analyze "how Westerners think" and another "how Westerners are confronted with the first idea they may have about how they think they think".