Toby Keith: Obama Acts White To Win

[sunoftheskye]

They don't prove Keith's(and i don't wanna prove his point, quite frankly), but i thought they would prove(or go towards) RGF's point...

Ah well, guess something is missing from my argument and i'm hungry, so i'm going to eat and read more things.

And, i'm waiting on that synonym.

You were serious about that? Insincere for one.

 

[Radio_Ethiopia]

God what a dumbass. He should really shut up and sing... jk.
but seriously what an embarrassment to America.

 

[GL]

i love toby keith.

he's a joyful reminder that there are an abundance of tool sheds stinking up america.

oops. sorry... amurrica!

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

There is no "convenient fog". Ur holding one group accountable for what another group said.

Apparently there is. There were numerous articles about the phenomenon early on.

Should I have to defend everything ignorant black people say?

Actually, in this case you are having to defend what apparently educated black people said...

Virtually all? That's a bit of an exaggeration.

Definitely. However, it was nonetheless an interesting idea, that black columnists would note that although Obama was Afircan-American, hesimply had no connections to what is considered the black experience, and is therefore not "black". When there is a Time article on it, I think that enough people have caught on to it...

Who exactly said this?

Some notables: Debra J. Dickerson, Sallim Muwakkil, Stanley Crouch,

And that, of course, ignores Sharpton's and Jackson's comments on him...It's nice to see that the black community isn't monolithlic, but c'mon...

[Just thought this was funny, BTW...]

The same ignorant blacks that are ALWAYS chosen as the representatives. Nobody ever holds us accountable to the poetry of Angelou, or the perseverance of MLK, or the intelligent earthiness of Alicia Keys, it's often quotes from the dumbest blacks that get tossed around.

And again, not in this case. You have some very smart, very educated blacks who disagree that Obama should be considered black in the first place. And besides, what about Farrakhan, Malcolm X, and even the NAACP? Does every black person need to be a great example of a person, or can they just be human?

Sorry; just finding it interesting that a white guy says what a lot of blacks have been saying for a while and he's racist and they're okay for stating the basically same opinion...Why should the color of the person's skin matter more than what they are saying?

RG

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

Define disingenuous and give me a synonym for it.

It's one of those words that's a generic insult; you can use it without actually knowing what it means. It basically means to give the appearance of being frank, synonyms include dishonest and insincere...

RG

 

[willsboy84]

Why is anyone listening to a country music singer on the subject of a presidential candidate's set of behavior? Is he some kind of authority on this subject?

Ignore him. He's one man with a racially-derived opinion that neither has a basis in reality nor any relevance to Mr. Obama's candidacy.

 

[spearsfan20]

All I know is that Toby Keith can lick my shit-fresh ass.

Nice one dude!

I am so happy that I do not support his music nor listen to country music. This is the classic redneck example of what a close-minded and ignorant country bumpkin fuck is when labeling a black person "not being black enough". First of all, what the fuck does he know about being black? Has Toby Keith ever been in a black man's shoes for a day and gets criticized for acting too white because he doesn't follow the stereotypes of black culture? I don't think so. He fails at being stupid.

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

Oh, well if there are numerous articles, that must paint the whole picture.:rolleyes.

Never said it did. Well, okay, by exaggeration, but still: I was just trying to show that Toby's opinion was shared by some black people. Also, I think that his opinion has been blown up to ridiculous proportions simply because he isn't black. I wonder what you would have said had Cowboy Troy said the same thing...?

Riddle, is a black person with a PhD educated if they stereotype their own race?

I don't think that they were necessarily stereotyping their own race; they were questioning if Obama really had the background in order to call himself "black" or if his upbringing was too different.

I don't care WHO it's coming from, it's wrong. That's like asking a random Muslim why terrorists did 9/11, or asking a white person why that man set off those bombs in Oklahoma. I'm not stupid, I realize that you're gettin' kicks throwin' the lowest common denominator of blacks around. How do you feel about Maya Angelou, or Bebe Campbell Moore, or Clarence Nero, or Clarence Thomas? I forgot, u seemed to have ur TV stuck on the Black Morons Network.

And again, I'm not agreeing with him; I'm just trying to show that he's not the only thinking that, but he is the one getting slammed for it, and simply because he's white. And I'd hardly consider a senior editor at Salon would be lowest denominator; that's another term I think that gets thrown around without really thinking about what it means...

Go find an ignorant black person who displays the hypocrisy you're discussing and ask them. I can't explain them any better than u can, we're not monolithic, remember?

What hypocrisy? The reasons that they gave are reasonable, especially given their perspective on history. You have someone saying that he has the same background as you, it's not that unreasonable to say that he doesn't; everything about a candidate should be questioned.

RG

 

[rareboy]

I thought Toby Keith was an idiot in 2003.

I overestimated his intelligence.

 

[rareboy]

Liberals are a bunch of un-educated hypocrates (sic)

.

And so the spokesman for the radical right displays his level of edjumicashun with another erudite and mordant generalization.

No one wants to limit free speech...because it means that we are all just as entitled to say when we think someone is full of shit when we don't agree with their narrow, hate filled and fearful view of the world around them.

Why is it that even when you are posting sober Jamesdude that your posts read like you're half in the bag? There's something that doesn't add up here.

 

[Chalchalero]

Apparently there is. There were numerous articles about the phenomenon early on.


Actually, in this case you are having to defend what apparently educated black people said...


Definitely. However, it was nonetheless an interesting idea, that black columnists would note that although Obama was Afircan-American, hesimply had no connections to what is considered the black experience, and is therefore not "black". When there is a Time article on it, I think that enough people have caught on to it...


Some notables: Debra J. Dickerson, Sallim Muwakkil, Stanley Crouch,

And that, of course, ignores Sharpton's and Jackson's comments on him...It's nice to see that the black community isn't monolithlic, but c'mon...

[Just thought this was funny, BTW...]


And again, not in this case. You have some very smart, very educated blacks who disagree that Obama should be considered black in the first place. And besides, what about Farrakhan, Malcolm X, and even the NAACP? Does every black person need to be a great example of a person, or can they just be human?

Sorry; just finding it interesting that a white guy says what a lot of blacks have been saying for a while and he's racist and they're okay for stating the basically same opinion...Why should the color of the person's skin matter more than what they are saying?

RG

After having read the links you provided, I believe that the disconnect here comes from the fact that what these articles are discussing is a perceived cultural divide between Barack Obama and the African American community based primarily on the fact that he is not a descendant of slaves but rather the son of an African father and American mother.

I was particularly intrigued by the reference to the fact that Dickerson writes, and I quote:

Not descended from West African slaves brought to America, he steps into the benefits of black progress (like Harvard Law School) without having borne any of the burden

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/01/22/obama/#

Observations like these, legitimate or not, are ONLY legitimate when discussed by and among African Americans who share the experience that they are questioning Obama for not having shared.

This is immensely different from a white country singer who has already coloured his own perception by others on the subject with his song which seems to celebrate lynching commenting on perceptions of Obama's actions or expected actions as derived from a stereotype.

BIG DIFFERENCE, and having absolutely no legitimacy in any intelligent discourse or debate. That simple.

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

Oh, now ur the spokesperson for ignorant blacks who typecast their own?

Well, someone has to.....

Quite an assumption. Maybe it's because of what he said, color has nothing to do with it, unless ur still convinced that blacks are a bunch of hypocrites.

Nope; never said anything like it. Only that some blacks refused to accept Obama as black, and others that he was acting white, but when a white person says that it an issue.

I know exactly what it means, that's why I said it. ANY BLACK who typecasts their own race is the LOWEST......COMMON......DENOMINATOR.

I don't think that it means what you think it does. Especially not when you using that to describe people that are highly educated and at the top of their profession. Ignorant, perhaps, but not LCD...

It's extremely revealing that you're DEFENDING the words of ignorant bigots (black and white alike). Either u agree with them (though u INSIST u don't:rolleyes) or ur just doing this for fun. Either that, ur u think ur "educating me" in the inner workings of ignorant people. I know what those fuckheads mean when they say he's not black.

I'm doing it because I think it's important that we recognize that people of both colors are raising the same points, no matter how egregious those points are. They are also worth raising during a campaign when it has been noted that one of the candidates is representing a specific culture; it's a perception issue worth noting.

RG

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

Observations like these, legitimate or not, are ONLY legitimate when discussed by and among African Americans who share the experience that they are questioning Obama for not having shared.

Sorry, but this is ludicrous; anything can and should be debated without concern for race. That it has been brought in very public forums by blacks makes it fodder for anyone to discuss, regardless of color. After all, we only discussed things of which we had personal experience, then there would be far fewer discussions...Imagine the debates re: The Holocaust; could you honestly participate in the debate if you weren't a Jew?

This is immensely different from a white country singer who has already coloured his own perception by others on the subject with his song which seems to celebrate lynching commenting on perceptions of Obama's actions or expected actions as derived from a stereotype.

I'm sorry; when did Kieth even condone the hanging of black people for imagined crimes? (If the best you can do is "Beer for my Horses", then you haven't really listened to the lyrics.)

BIG DIFFERENCE, and having absolutely no legitimacy in any intelligent discourse or debate. That simple.

I disagree. I think that this isi something worthy of discussion, as it is going to color the debates later on just as it has colored debates now. It's something that should be debated as it could effect Obama's chances come November....

RG

 

[Apollo]

Definitely. However, it was nonetheless an interesting idea, that black columnists would note that although Obama was Afircan-American, hesimply had no connections to what is considered the black experience, and is therefore not "black". When there is a Time article on it, I think that enough people have caught on to it...

I guess the writers of the article seems to forget the fact that Obama was dirt poor in his youth, and worked his way up. Furthermore, why should he have to have an "authentic" black experience. He is more "african-american" then the majority of black people in this country.

He doesnt have to name his kids incredibly sad and stupid names to make it sound authentic "african" he is authentic african

And again, not in this case. You have some very smart, very educated blacks who disagree that Obama should be considered black in the first place. And besides, what about Farrakhan, Malcolm X, and even the NAACP? Does every black person need to be a great example of a person, or can they just be human?

Sorry; just finding it interesting that a white guy says what a lot of blacks have been saying for a while and he's racist and they're okay for stating the basically same opinion...Why should the color of the person's skin matter more than what they are saying?

I bet they are still going to vote for Obama over some old crypt keeper who will ruin the country.

And as for him being considered black, what the fuck do they know? Half, to most of them, have to go back a hundred or so years just to claim they are even African in the first place. Obama goes straight to his fucking dad. But this isnt the point.

Who fucking cares if he isn't "black enough" does that matter in a presidential race? You know, as we watch as WW3 unfolds before us, and our economy does a nose dive into oblivion, how about the rest of our economic and domestic problems? I doubt when Obama is sitting in the oval office, people are going to be judging his decisions by his level of "blackness" on a 10 point scale, and if they are, then I hope they are promptly fired. Thats not the job they were hired to do.

And yes, the comments were racist. Is he racist? Maybe not, but the comments were racist. The comments have no relevance, all they are there to do is stir up shit. And you seems to welcome this shit and decided you wanted to throw a little of it yourself. Again, it has no bearing on how good a president he would be.

 

[Apollo]

I don't understand why people won't realize that there is no SINGULAR experience for ANY group.

I also shake my head and chuckle whenever somebody plays the 'free-speech card' just because somebody else disagrees with an opinion. It's not enough for people to be able to say what they think; apparently, they also expect other people to agree with them, no matter how shitty their thoughts may be.

The great thing about this country is that he can say what he want. I would never want something like that to be censored because it goes agaisnt the principles of America.

People from other countries are always agast and surprised what people will say in this country, but they have been brought up with the notion that they can say whatever the fuck they want, as long as it doesn't cause a riot.

It only goes to show how stupid and ignorant THEY are, not the rest of the country. RobinGoodFellow can say what he likes. While it is all wrong and stupid, it is his right, and I say keep it coming. It only goes to show that being gay does not make you a wiser person.

 

[Treborf]

Growing up, I was an awkard nerd skater kid who mostly listened to post-punk and loved nothing more than reading. Despite all that, no black person ever called me "white". They might have said I was weird or a nerd, but they never questioned my blackness. There was, however, always some dumb white person who always chiming in on whether or not I acted "black enough". Never mind that these people hardly knew any black people themselves...

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Toby Keith is a moron

 

[Rule-Of-Thirds]

All I hope is that Toby Keith has more speaking engagements like this. I want to hear everything he has to say, especially about black people. Let your true thoughts be heard, Toby.

I am predicting that before the election there will be one respected celeb out there who accidentitally drops the N-word in an interview. I want to see that happen and see that person's career get completely ruined. This type of ignorant and racist talk has no place in our society.

 

[Chalchalero]

Sorry, but this is ludicrous; anything can and should be debated without concern for race. That it has been brought in very public forums by blacks makes it fodder for anyone to discuss, regardless of color. After all, we only discussed things of which we had personal experience, then there would be far fewer discussions...Imagine the debates re: The Holocaust; could you honestly participate in the debate if you weren't a Jew?

It is not ludicrous at all. It is one thing when the black community has an internal discussion about what it means to be black in this country (which arguably unless you are black, it would be foolish for you to participate in) and the discussion of the holocaust which could only be done from an historical perspective as it is something which has already happened. It is over. Long done and gone (despite the attempts of some to constantly keep reliving it...)

The debate on what it means to be black in America is a discussion which, until Obama's candidacy, really was one which was discussed only within the black community. It has only become a debate that has come to interest other people now because of the implications it has with regards to Obama and his candidacy.

But simply because it is a discussion which is being held out in the open does not take away from the fact that, unless you are black, you cannot possibly know what it means to be black in America, and you would have very little of substance to offer such a discussion.

As far as answering your question about the holocaust, I discussed it ad nauseum
while at university. I see no purpose for discussing it any more, as it really does not affect me personally. I do not debate it. I do not give it any more thought. There are too many pressing issues of the present for me to deal with, and I have no time to play into the self perpetuating cult of collective guilt over something that happened before I was born that such discussions inevitably lead to.

I was not there. I did not have anything to do with it. I do not feel guilty for it. And I resent those who continue to use it as an excuse to achieve their own agendas. So in protest, I refuse to ever discuss it. At all.

I'm sorry; when did Kieth even condone the hanging of black people for imagined crimes? (If the best you can do is "Beer for my Horses", then you haven't really listened to the lyrics.)

Well a man come on the 6 o'clock news
said somebody's been shot
somebody's been abused
somebody blew up a building
somebody stole a car
somebody got away
somebody didn't get to far yeah
they didn't get to far

Grand pappy told my pappy back in my day, son
A man had to answer for the wicked that he'd done
Take all the rope in Texas
Find a tall oak tree, round up all of them bad boys
Hang them high in the street
For all the people to see

That
Justice is the one thing you should always find
You got to saddle up your boys
You got to draw a hard line
When the gun smoke settles we'll sing a victory tune
And we'll all meet back at the local saloon
And we'll raise up our glasses against evil forces singing
whiskey for my man, beer for my horses

We got too many gangsters doing dirty deeds
too much corruption and crime in the streets
It's time the long arm of the law put a few more in the ground
Send 'em all to their maker and he'll settle 'em down
You can bet he'll set 'em down

Now you read those lyrics and tell me what YOU think they mean. Who do you think is being blamed for all of the crimes listed in the first stanza? White men? Blowing up a building? Most people of this mindset thought Timothy McVeigh was a hero, so the lyrics can't be talking about him. So who then? Stealing cars? Shooting people? Who do you think they are calling gangsters? When have you ever known southern white men to advocate hanging one of their own? You seem far too smart to be a naive as that.

I disagree. I think that this isi something worthy of discussion, as it is going to color the debates later on just as it has colored debates now. It's something that should be debated as it could effect Obama's chances come November....

RG

I do not believe that Toby Keith's opinion will affect the debate one way or another except to poison it even more. I stand by what I said. His remarks have absolutely no legitimacy in any intelligent discourse or debate. That simple.

You are mistaken if you believe that Toby Keith's comments in any way resemble or come close to any similarity to what blacks are discussing with regards to Obama.

Within the black community it is an intra cultural debate. Within the context of Toby Keith's comments and his perceived intentions on the part of the black community, it is a racist diatribe.

"Acting white" is not the same as "doesn't share our collective cultural experiences". Surely you must see that.

 

[Chalchalero]

To add one more point...

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are demagogic publicity hounds who cater to a decidedly unsophisticated and not particularly intellectual base. They speak in sound bytes so that they will be heard and remembered by people with little understanding of the complexities of the issues at hand.

The vast majority of black intellectuals (as has been pointed out already) are not discussing Obama in terms of "acting white". That term in and of itself implies that he would have to change his persona to SOMETHING BETTER THAN HE IS in order to get elected. As though "being" or "acting" black would be a bad thing.

NO intelligent black person is going to buy into that. NOT EVER!