Top Republicans At Odds About U.S. Involvement in Syria

[MystikWizard]

So essentially all agree the UN SHOULD be doing something but if left to them nothing will happen. So pray and tell besides western europe.... who gets attacked if Syria becomes a terrorist production grounds?

So is the lesson of history good enough to determine we will be attacked? 9/11 was the thing that made Americans break away from their millisecond attention spans and celebrity death match obsession long enough to say "hmmm people wanna kill us because we are us" In reality we have been attacked in various ways for the last forty years by Islamic extremist who blame their shitty world on us. So our diplomats and military have paid the price for years.

We can argue that our policy this and our self serving policy that but in the end we are targets and a terror testing ground we do not need. BUT I am tired of war as well so perhaps we need to let it deteriorate and see if it creates a situation where we are attacked again. That way we can galvanize the war intent in another generation of Americans when they respond. I already posted my intentions in the "best city" thread. I doubt they will be terror attacking chaco canyon or the redwoods so I could honestly care less at this point.

BUT putting your head in the sand has consequences. People should understand that when they make the choice to ignore it and hope it goes away.

What are the consequences of the U.S. not involving itself?

Unless there is a conflict around the world for the U.S. to become involved in, "Conservatives" just aren't happy.

 

[Centexfarmer]

^ Nothing to it but to do it at this point.

 

[JayHawk]

What are the consequences of the U.S. not involving itself?

Unless there is a conflict around the world for the U.S. to become involved in, "Conservatives" just aren't happy.

Perhaps your reading failed or you jhust read the last line... please re read. I provide all the 'reasoning' needed. Conservatives are not in charge of our government. The same government effecting a drone war on those same countries and stationing assets around it. This isnt a 'us' or 'them' thing.

 

[Jack Springer]

What are the consequences of the U.S. not involving itself?

Unless there is a conflict around the world for the U.S. to become involved in, "Conservatives" just aren't happy.

Why the fuck did Obama draw a red-line if nothing can or would be done?

I guess he did it just for kicks .... or possibly he has 'evolved' during the past 9 months.

 

[JayHawk]

Jack are you not aware our chained dog on a leash has been loosed on Syria?

<shakes head>

 

[TX-Beau]

There are other options besides invasion or putting your head in the sand.

 

[JayHawk]

Right Tx.

Let Israel bomb them to rock throwing.

 

[TX-Beau]

I'm fine with letting Israel draw their own fire - I don't think we should be so thick involved with them either and frankly our association with Israel is a huge chunk of why they hated us in the first place.

But that's NOT what I meant and you know it.

 

[JayHawk]

Yeah but we have been doing those other things except open arms delivery to the rebels because half of them fought us in Iraq. Or would have had they the chance. Most of those that fought us in Iraq didn't leave.

So we have starved the country, condemned them in the world view, supplied medicine and food to their enemy... so what else do you suggest?

 

[chance1]

I'm fine with letting Israel draw their own fire - I don't think we should be so thick involved with them either and frankly our association with Israel is a huge chunk of why they hated us in the first place.

But that's NOT what I meant and you know it.

our association with israel is a good thing

and hiding it or denying it is not the answer

it's part of the problem

 

[TX-Beau]

Yeah but we have been doing those other things except open arms delivery to the rebels because half of them fought us in Iraq. Or would have had they the chance. Most of those that fought us in Iraq didn't leave.

So we have starved the country, condemned them in the world view, supplied medicine and food to their enemy... so what else do you suggest?

Actually I'd have gone a whole other direction. The US desperately needs an image makeover in the Arab world. Supporting and encouraging Israeli bombing makes things worse - bu ya know, Assad isn't loved in the Arab world, neither is Iran, I'd have tried to get a coalition of other Arabs to deal with him and support them.

Probably too late for that now, but I still don't buy the only option left is invasion idea. It wouldn't work, number 1 - the moment we invaded we would be seen as (shock) invaders, and it wouldn't do anything but make us a bigger target for crazy people, number 2.

 

[JayHawk]

our association with israel is a good thing

and hiding it or denying it is not the answer

it's part of the problem

Our unyielding support for Israel is destructive. We should call them when they fuck up. Just like republicans should police themselves of the foolishness that has become their party. Abject Obama hate which was shown clearly when they failed to 'give him' a background check law just because it was him is exactly the same kind of attitude that unyielding devotion leads to in our system.

 

[TX-Beau]

our association with israel is a good thing

and hiding it or denying it is not the answer

it's part of the problem

Our association with Israel is a diplomatic thing and it has it's pros and cons.

Pretending otherwise is not the answer

it's part of the problem

 

[JayHawk]

Actually I'd have gone a whole other direction. The US desperately needs an image makeover in the Arab world. Supporting and encouraging Israeli bombing makes things worse - bu ya know, Assad isn't loved in the Arab world, neither is Iran, I'd have tried to get a coalition of other Arabs to deal with him and support them.

Probably too late for that now, but I still don't buy the only option left is invasion idea. It wouldn't work, number 1 - the moment we invaded we would be seen as (shock) invaders, and it wouldn't do anything but make us a bigger target for crazy people, number 2.

Problem is we have been working with those same folks for forty years. I don't know if you noticed but with their gazillions in oil money they haven't purchased armies or weapons. While Iran has armed itself to the teeth. Syria was just behind them. If a Arab nation or coalition attacked Syria then Iran would get into the game. They wont with the world is looking but if it was just Arab coalition nations then we wouldn't look. A good example is when do you hear about things in Africa? That's right; when it affects the west.

As far as folks willing to kill us?? After twelve years of war following forty years of terror on the west... well lets just say that is not changing anytime soon.

 

[chance1]

Our unyielding support for Israel is destructive. We should call them when they fuck up. Just like republicans should police themselves of the foolishness that has become their party. Abject Obama hate which was shown clearly when they failed to 'give him' a background check law just because it was him is exactly the same kind of attitude that unyielding devotion leads to in our system.

don't confuse support with blindness - i don't

israel is a great ally - and when they make a mistake we should call them on it - in private is better form but if in public provides better PR and they're aware of that so be it

what they're doing now IS NOT A MISTAKE

and they're carrying our water

and helping themselves AND US

by not necessitating us to help

 

[chance1]

Our association with Israel is a diplomatic thing and it has it's pros and cons.

Pretending otherwise is not the answer

it's part of the problem

you've posted before and here .....

proving that your "it's political" thing is not genuine

you don't care for them as a country period

that's not a "political" thing

 

[TX-Beau]

Problem is we have been working with those same folks for forty years. I don't know if you noticed but with their gazillions in oil money they haven't purchased armies or weapons. While Iran has armed itself to the teeth. Syria was just behind them. If a Arab nation or coalition attacked Syria then Iran would get into the game. They wont with the world is looking but if it was just Arab coalition nations then we wouldn't look. A good example is when do you hear about things in Africa? That's right; when it affects the west.

As far as folks willing to kill us?? After twelve years of war following forty years of terror on the west... well lets just say that is not changing anytime soon.

If you put together an Arab coalition with Nato or UN backing it wouldn't be invisible, and just saying it won't change anytime soon is no reason not to try and change things.

Nothing will change overnight, but we don't seem to be even trying - and Unilateral support for whatever action Israel decides to take is just letting them set foreign policy for us.

 

[TX-Beau]

you've posted before and here .....

proving that your "it's political" thing is not genuine

you don't care for them as a country period

that's not a "political" thing

 

[chance1]

If you put together an Arab coalition with Nato or UN backing it wouldn't be invisible, and just saying it won't change anytime soon is no reason not to try and change things.

Nothing will change overnight, but we don't seem to be even trying - and Unilateral support for whatever action Israel decides to take is just letting them set foreign policy for us.

hard to understand when u spend so much time on your back with your arms flapping i know

they're not setting policy for us

they're providing cover

there's a diff

 

[JayHawk]

don't confuse support with blindness - i don't

israel is a great ally - and when they make a mistake we should call them on it - in private is better form but if in public provides better PR and they're aware of that so be it

what they're doing now IS NOT A MISTAKE

and they're carrying our water

and helping themselves AND US

by not necessitating us to help

Oh I dont. I have made it quite clear I am thoroughly pleased with the course of action. I disagree with both republican whines we arent doing anything (which is untrue) and republican war cries (of which we have had enough for now)

If you put together an Arab coalition with Nato or UN backing it wouldn't be invisible, and just saying it won't change anytime soon is no reason not to try and change things.

Nothing will change overnight, but we don't seem to be even trying - and Unilateral support for whatever action Israel decides to take is just letting them set foreign policy for us.

But it isn't unilateral support for the action Israel is taking. It is condoned and directed action at least. Everything is timing. WE cannot put bombs on foreheads, they hate Israel any damn way, Israel gets to destroy known weapon systems that supply their enemies and at the same time further destabilize Syria allowing armed rebels to carry the day. It is the wisest policy out there. Us being involved in a UN missionwhether or not there were Arabs involved would make it our action. It would be seen as such.