Trump Gives CIA the Power to conduct their Own Drone Strikes

[Benvolio]

I do question the drone program when there is so much risk of mistakes. Without accountability, it will get worse. Killing a whole bunch of civilians to get a few really bad guys works as a recruitment device against us, at least turn people against the United States. And remember what we sow can be used against us... is it possible that we too can find ourselves targeted by drones used by another nation or terrorist organization? Not saying it never should be used but it's a tool only best used in very few cases, not as a regularly used aspect of strategic warfare. And subject to the strictest accountability afterwards, which means hell no to allowing the CIA to use it where it has no requirement to even admit there was a drone attack.

Pandora's box is already open. Our enemies already have them and the military has been using them for several years. Yes, CIA should be accountable and required to report, but the problems of mistakes etc exist with the military as much as with cia.

 

[Kabluey]

I do question the drone program when there is so much risk of mistakes. Without accountability, it will get worse. Killing a whole bunch of civilians to get a few really bad guys works as a recruitment device against us, at least turn people against the United States. And remember what we sow can be used against us... is it possible that we too can find ourselves targeted by drones used by another nation or terrorist organization? Not saying it never should be used but it's a tool only best used in very few cases, not as a regularly used aspect of strategic warfare. And subject to the strictest accountability afterwards, which means hell no to allowing the CIA to use it where it has no requirement to even admit there was a drone attack.

As much as I dislike warfare in general, I do appreciate that drone strikes allow for better targeting of individuals than traditional aerial bombing and better reach inside hostile territories than ground forces can allow. Both result in a lower risk of civilian casualty.

Used wisely, they can eliminate key targets. Used unwisely they can create mayhem.

 

[Sausy]

The CIA unless the law changes isn't required to report on any drone strikes, and doesn't face accountability and oversight unless I get the gist of the article wrong, which I don't believe.

The key is when to use it. It shouldn't become a substitute military strategy but be used very judiciously, as rarely as possible. It has a place, but I fear we are becoming too comfortable with it and I don't see giving the CIA carte blanche to do drone strikes on their own as a wise contribution to tightening and making more accountable drone strike policy.

 

[frankfrank]

Benghazi taught us not to rely on bureaucracies in emergencies.

Hey look! - a kitty...no, I mean
BENGHAZI!!!!

 

[opinterph]

*Cough*

Strikes under the Bush Administration: 51.

Your post is misleading.

The Bush Years: Pakistan Strikes 2004 – 2009 (The Bureau of Investigative Journalism)

 

[evelyn]

The Bush Years: Pakistan Strikes 2004 – 2009 (The Bureau of Investigative Journalism)

Thanks for the link / info.

This is a basic summary (I did a quick totaling up of the Obama Years, so you might double-check if you want):

CIA strikes – The Bush Years
Total CIA drone strikes 51
Total reported killed: 410-595
Civilians reported killed: 167-332
Children reported killed: 102-129
Total reported injured: 175-277

CIA strikes – The Obama Years
Total CIA drone strikes 373
Total reported killed: 2090 - 3406
Civilians reported killed: 257 - 634
Children reported killed: 66 - 78
Total reported injured: 995 - 1476

Consider the following:

The president’s directive reinforced the need for caution, counterterrorism officials said, but did not significantly change the program. In part, that is because “the protection of innocent life was always a critical consideration,” said Michael V. Hayden, the last C.I.A. director under President George W. Bush.

It is also because Mr. Obama embraced a disputed method for counting civilian casualties that did little to box him in. It in effect counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent.

Secret ‘Kill List’ Proves a Test of Obama’s Principles and Will

 

[opinterph]

I just know that if this had been a Democratic president that had just given the CIA this power....all the right wingers would be losing their shit.

This is one genie that America is going to wish it never let out of the bottle.

How is the new Trump policy (allowing the CIA to conduct lethal drone attacks) different from the George W. Bush policy?

Why did the CIA drone policy change during the Obama Administration?

 

[rareboy]

I can't say exactly how Trump's policy differs from Bush's ( because I can't find the exact wording of either), but generally, it is worth bearing in mind that the use of drones for military strikes was in its incipient stages under Bush and during the Obama era, with the decision to pull ground troops out of harms way to the greatest extent possible, the number of drone strikes increased immensely.

What Obama realized, however, is that there is an issue of transparency and accountability in the use of drones to kill the enemy and he moved to make sure that the use of these weapons was ultimately under the armed forces command to ensure that the CIA, as a secret operation...didn't become some sort of secret parallel and unaccountable army.

And as Commander in Chief...he accepted ultimate responsibility for the strikes, unlike Bush and Halliburton Co. who preferred the hands off world of dark ops, black sites, Guantanamo, torture etc. where there was effectively no oversight or accountability.

http://www.ibtimes.com/trump-allows-cia-drone-strikes-reversing-obama-policy-report-2507628

As I noted...TrumpCo. doesn't want his fingerprints on the kill. He showed, through his inept handling of Yemen and shunting off the blame to the generals, that he is totally unprepared to bear the heavy mantle of responsibility of Commander in Chief. He only wants the hats and the jackets.

 

[evelyn]

How is the new Trump policy (allowing the CIA to conduct lethal drone attacks) different from the George W. Bush policy?

You're presuming this policy is actual. Be wary of "reports" from "anonymous sources"

Why did the CIA drone policy change during the Obama Administration?

What was the exact nature of that change? Which aspects improved? And which aspects worsened?

Again:

CIA strikes – The Bush Years
Total CIA drone strikes 51
Total reported killed: 410-595
Civilians reported killed: 167-332
Children reported killed: 102-129
Total reported injured: 175-277

CIA strikes – The Obama Years
Total CIA drone strikes 373
Total reported killed: 2090 - 3406
Civilians reported killed: 257 - 634
Children reported killed: 66 - 78
Total reported injured: 995 - 1476

 

[opinterph]

… What Obama realized, however, is that there is an issue of transparency and accountability in the use of drones to kill the enemy and he moved to make sure that the use of these weapons was ultimately under the armed forces command to ensure that the CIA, as a secret operation...didn't become some sort of secret parallel and unaccountable army.

And as Commander in Chief...he accepted ultimate responsibility for the strikes, unlike Bush and Halliburton Co. who preferred the hands off world of dark ops, black sites, Guantanamo, torture etc. where there was effectively no oversight or accountability.

President Obama was concerned about civilian casualties from drone attacks. In 2013, not only did he remove the CIA’s authority to conduct lethal drone attacks, he also required the military to present any plan to take out a high-value target to the President for approval before it could be set in motion.

To say a military tactic is legal, or even effective, is not to say it is wise or moral in every instance, for the same progress that gives us the technology to strike half a world away also demands the discipline to constrain that power, or risk abusing it.

And that’s why, over the last four years, my administration has worked vigorously to establish a framework that governs our use of force against terrorists -- insisting upon clear guidelines, oversight and accountability that is now codified in presidential policy guidance that I signed yesterday.

Remarks by the President at the National Defense University (The White House [archives]; May 23, 2013)

Procedures for Approving Direct Action Against Terrorist Targets
Located Outside the United States and Areas of Active Hostilities

(US Department of Justice; May 22, 2013)​

 

[evelyn]

What Obama realized, however, is that there is an issue of transparency and accountability in the use of drones

How does that tally with...

Mr. Obama embraced a disputed method for counting civilian casualties that did little to box him in. It in effect counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent.
Secret ‘Kill List’ Proves a Test of Obama’s Principles and Will

 

[gsdx]

Thanks for the link / info.

CIA strikes – The Bush Years
Total CIA drone strikes 51
Total reported killed: 410-595
Civilians reported killed: 167-332
Children reported killed: 102-129
Total reported injured: 175-277

CIA strikes – The Obama Years
Total CIA drone strikes 373
Total reported killed: 2090 - 3406
Civilians reported killed: 257 - 634
Children reported killed: 66 - 78
Total reported injured: 995 - 1476

[CIA strikes – The Bush Years
Total CIA drone strikes 51
Total reported killed: 410-595
Civilians reported killed: 167-332
Children reported killed: 102-129
Total reported injured: 175-277

CIA strikes – The Obama Years
Total CIA drone strikes 373
Total reported killed: 2090 - 3406
Civilians reported killed: 257 - 634
Children reported killed: 66 - 78
Total reported injured: 995 - 1476

Reruns already? Nothing new?

 

[evelyn]

In 2013, not only did he remove the CIA’s authority to conduct lethal drone attacks, he also required the military to present any plan to take out a high-value target to the President for approval before it could be set in motion.

2009
2010
2011
2012

The years before he did so. How many strikes were carried out under Obama during these years? How many died? How many civilians?

 

[evelyn]

Reruns already? Nothing new?

I thing the data, representing the death of complete innocents, is worthy of a rerun.

 

[opinterph]

How many strikes were carried out under Obama during these years? How many died? How many civilians?

I have provided you resource links to discover that information.

 

[evelyn]

I have provided you resource links to discover that information.

I realise that. I ask the questions to achieve emphasis.

 

[rareboy]

This thread isn't about whether the use of drone strikes is good or bad policy.

This thread is about where the ultimate responsibility should be for using them.