The Original Gay Porn Community - Free Gay Movies and Photos, Gay Porn Site Reviews and Adult Gay Forums

  • Welcome To Just Us Boys - The World's Largest Gay Message Board Community

    In order to comply with recent US Supreme Court rulings regarding adult content, we will be making changes in the future to require that you log into your account to view adult content on the site.
    If you do not have an account, please register.
    REGISTER HERE - 100% FREE / We Will Never Sell Your Info

    To register, turn off your VPN; you can re-enable the VPN after registration. You must maintain an active email address on your account: disposable email addresses cannot be used to register.

Trump this.

I am not as confident as you. To the point you made about what the SC majority did with overturning Roe v. Wade, I have no problem seeing the cabal all doing what Kavanaugh has openly said he will do with the case...support Trump and rule even more broadly on the issue than the case merits...
Tying this to another post of mine a while back about Ken Paxton and the open war going on in Republican Party between conservatives and far-right "ends justifies means" activists:

This happened this week:

This is probably the reason that I think that the Court will try to keep the tradition of States controlling their own ballots while limiting the scope of their decision to apply to only the case they were given.

On one hand, Originalist's argument is that "the meaning is what the text says". There's a group of Republicans out there saying, "Oh this was only about the guys from the Civil War". The problem with that argument is that the insurrection section is part of a larger Amendment. An Originalist cannot say, "This part of that Amendment applies to all citizens in all times but this one section doesn't". The meaning of the text is what the text says. If the writers of the Amendment intended for the insurrectionist clause to apply to the Civil War, they would have said so. Similarly, if the writers of the Amendment wanted only those convicted of insurrection to be excluded, they would have said so.

Originalists and conservatives want to constrain government and make it play by the rules. What DeSantis said in that clip is the antithesis of government constraint. It's an example of an executive in the government abusing power and using the levers of government to punish his opponent. And he's justifying his abuse of power with a nonsensical argument that has no basis in law. This exactly what the conservatives on the Court don't want.

These challenges are not coming from Democrats or liberals. The challenges are coming from conservatives and Republicans. Trump is out there with his usual "Look over here and pretend you don't see what you really see" bullshit, claiming that Biden and the Democrats are trying to keep him off the ballot. The 14th Amendment and States' Rights arguments to keep Trump off the ballot are coming from his own party and the Democrats are on the sidelines saying, "You go!".

Thomas will vote in favor of Trump's arguments. He has shown himself to be in the "ends justifies the means" camp and he will use as much inductive reasoning as possible to justify his decision.

Barrett, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh are likely to say that States have the right to determine eligibility of people on their ballots and they'll affirm Colorado's brief. This punts the larger question of Trump's guilt back to each individual State.

Jackson, Kagan and Sotomayor are likely to mention that Trump was given due process and a Colorado Court found that he was guilty in Colorado of aiding and abetting an insurrection, even though SCOTUS is not rendering an opinion on Trump's guilt or innocence. They are likely to say that Colorado has the right to determine who is on their ballots, as long as they follow their own rules and ensure things like due process.

Alito is a wild card. It's hard to know what he will do.

There is one argument that might get traction and it has to do with Congress' role is determining who can serve in office after violating their prior oath to the Constitution. This argument punts the bigger question to Congress. This is the mirror image of what McConnell did during the second impeachment when he said that it's up to the Courts to find Trump guilty, not the Congress. It's the "Tag, you're it" method of governing.

Roberts is going to be in the Solomonic limited ruling camp. He's going to avoid the big question, "Is Trump an Insurrectionist?". He's going to want to try to push the question onto Congress (which is what the text of the Amendment says). He's also going to push for a limited scope opinion that will get 6 or more votes, preferably 8. He does not want a 5-4 decision and he would like to avoid a 6-3 opinion.
 
Last edited:
"the meaning is what the text says"

More specifically it is based on the meaning of the text as understood at the time it was adopted – which may or may not correspond to how the text might be interpreted in contemporary language.
 
More specifically it is based on the meaning of the text as understood at the time it was adopted – which may or may not correspond to how the text might be interpreted in contemporary language.
True. And the floor speeches in Congress around the Amendment support the interpretation. Here's part of that discussion:

Mr. BINGHAM. The gentleman will pardon me. The amendment is exactly in the language of the Constitution; that is to say, it secures to the citizens of each of the States all the privileges and immunities of citizens of the several States. It is not to transfer the laws of one State to another State at all. It is to secure to the citizen of each State all the privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States in the several States. If the State laws do not interfere, those immunities follow under the Constitution.

Mr. HOTCHKISS. Constitutions should have their provisions so plain that it will be unnecessary for courts to give construction to them; they should be so plain that the common mind can understand them.

The first part of this amendment to which the gentleman alludes, is precisely like the present Constitution; it confers no additional powers. It is the latter clause wherein Congress is given the power to establish these uniform laws throughout the United States. Now, if the gentleman’s object is, as I have no doubt it is, to provide against a discrimination to the injury or exclusion of any class of citizens in any State from the privileges which other classes enjoy, the right should be incorporated into the Constitution. It should be a constitutional right that cannot be wrested from any class of citizens, or from the citizens of any State by mere legislation. But this amendment proposes to leave it to the caprice of Congress; and your legislation upon the subject would depend upon the political majority of Congress, and not upon two thirds of Congress and three fourths of the States.

There was an earlier draft of the Amendment proposed in the House:
Sec. 3. Until the 4th day of July, in the year 1870, all persons who voluntarily adhered to the late insurrection, giving it aid and comfort, shall be excluded from the right to vote for Representatives in Congress and for electors for President and Vice President of the United States,..

That version was not accepted.

The final version which was adopted was proposed by Senator Jacob Howard (R-MI). It was his mission to remove all references to the Civil War and remove all limitations that might be used to allow Confederate loyalists from serving in public office. The debates that occurred in 1867-1868 make it clear that they didn't want anyone who violated their oath from being able to serve. They also did not want to have to try hundreds of thousands of Confederate Rebels individually, so instead of requiring a criminal conviction, they put in a clause to allow Congress to be the ultimate arbiter of who is an insurrectionist and who can service in public office.

The 14th Amendment, taken as a whole, is about rights to citizenship and loyalty to the US Constitution. It was proposed to ensure that all natural born Americans were granted citizenship, regardless of race but it also wanted to add a second bar specific to public office: loyalty to the Constitution and to the oath of office to that Constitution.
 
Last edited:
The exclusion of the references to the Civil War was for expedience in the final language is not as reassuring as one would hope.

Punting back to Congress though would likely still be good for Trump. It totally politicizes the issue and could chill the moves in other states to remove Trump from the ballot, particularly with the threats of Republican states to remove Biden.

I also could see a Republican Congress scrabble to give Trump immunity now because they are all going to be after his voters.
 
....I also could see a Republican Congress scrabble to give Trump immunity now because they are all going to be after his voters.

This might be a good time to put post the full Amendment in its entirety for reference, not using quote tags to make it easier to review all sections. Section 3 is in red. Notice the part of Section 3 that I have bolded.


Amendment XIV

Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2.
Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the executive and judicial officers of a state, or the members of the legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such state, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such state.

Section 3.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5.
The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.



So, the threshold to get an "get out of jail free card' that Trump would need is steep. It is the same 2/3 majority that applies to impeachment but note that the 2/3 majority applies to both Houses of Congress. Trump will never get that many votes. Ever. He will never get Congress to give him immunity.

In the floor discussions, Senator Peter G. Van Winkle (R-WV) proposed to lower the threshold to a simple majority in either House. That failed.

One of the Senators asked why the office of President was not specifically mentioned. Senator Lot Morrill (D-ME) called out the words "'...or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States.." saying that these words applied to all Federal office holders, including the President.


A note of trivia that is of interest to genealogists: Section 4 is why there were individual Civil War Pension Systems: one for Union soldiers at the Federal level and a second system for the Rebel States at the State level. If someone served in the Confederate Army in Tennessee, they were ineligible for a Federal pension because Tennessee was part of the insurrection. That soldier would have to rely upon the State of Tennessee to pass a bill to fund a State pension for Tennessee Civil War veterans. The Congress was very clear that they wanted no insurrectionist to get any Federal benefits.

The next question is whether the Ted Cruzes, Josh Hawleys, Paul Gosars- the Republicans who were contributors to the plot to deny Biden the Presidency will also have to get that 2/3 majority to get Congressional permission to get re-elected. The DOJ's glacial pace in going after the plotters and fellow travelers to the insurrection plot has created a potential mess and a possible endless stream of lawsuits if SCOTUS says that Section 3 applies to participants in the Jan 6th plot. Also, the QAnon Shaman guy wants to run for Congress as a LIbertarian; he, too, will probably face a lawsuit.
 
Well you are correct...it is more reassuring that it is two thirds of each house, with a narrow majority in the House and no chance in hell of a 2/3 majority in the Senate.

The question about the other insurrectionists seems even starker since I can't see anyone taking up the Shaman's frivolous cause given a conviction and jail sentence.
 
I don't see why any of them would feel any need to be consistent with a pseudo-philosophy they made up to suborn the rulings they don't like in the first place.
 
I believe the court will give Trump what he wants. Originalism is BS or if not can someone explain to me who climbed into the founders heads to find A-k15s constitutional under the founders original vision? No one can know this but, heavens, the court can speculate.
 
Trump, once again using a megaphone instead of a dog whistle to speak directly to his southern voting base and all the racists in the other bumfuck states...

The Civil War could have been negotiated....he just can't help saying the quiet part out loud...and between him and Haley...they are clearly demonstrating where the GQP party is on the revisionism of history.


And the majority of Republican leaders are mute.

So terrified of the monster they have created and still think they can control him.
 
That's just another bullshit argument. They throw a lot of verbiage at the press and the press pretends it's a real thing and gets their ratings.
I don't think that anyone anticipated the reach it would take to overturn Roe v. Wade.

This court is capable of taking any bullshit argument and crafting the consitution around it, it seems.
 
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Donald Trump cannot argue to a jury assessing damages at the writer E. Jean Carroll's upcoming defamation trial that he did not rape her in the mid-1990s, based on another jury having found that he only sexually abused her, a U.S. judge has ruled...


So much for the fantasy of being found "innocent."
 
the Donald is trying the "tit for tat" defense ](*,)


...You hold us responsible for our crimes, we'll lie and prosecute you for anything we make up...

It's not tit for tat, it's extortion.
 
the Donald is trying the "tit for tat" defense ](*,)

They got the idea from the 'If you take Trump off the ballots in some states, the GQP will remove Biden in other states'.

And of course, the Cohen/Conway pivot. Where you just turn around and accuse the other person of the same thing.

I am trying to think though of how Trump plans to indict Biden when he isn't president?
 
They got the idea from the 'If you take Trump off the ballots in some states, the GQP will remove Biden in other states'.

And of course, the Cohen/Conway pivot. Where you just turn around and accuse the other person of the same thing.

I am trying to think though of how Trump plans to indict Biden when he isn't president?

They'll make shit up. It doesn't matter if the courts agree, it's all chum for the bigots and traitors.
 
Can we all agree that the legal question of presidential immunity aside D. Trump didn’t act like he thought he had immunity while president.
 
I am not sure we can say that.

At different times he would make reference to some special clause that gave him absolute authority...likely something that one of his crackpot legal 'advisors' told him he had.
 
Back
Top