Trump this.

[johaninsc]

 

[johaninsc]

 

[rareboy]

Not surprisingly, the GQP is silent about the Carroll verdict and damages.

The GOP’s reaction to the Trump-Carroll verdict: What verdict?

‘Trump chaos is baked in the cake at this point,’ one Republican strategist said.

www.politico.com

But they'll all be out there with pics of Joe massaging some woman's shoulders or sniffing her hair as though it is equal to ramming your fingers up a woman's vagina against her will.

 

[rareboy]

 

[gsdx]

Trump may have toned down his comments toward E Jean, but it will be interesting to see if he tones down his bragging about how rich he is. It was only because of his bragging that the jury granted Jean so much money in punitive damages. They're not limited to actual wealth but on professed wealth as well. I joked about Trump bragging about the value of Mar-A-Lago above. The jury could have used that brag to grant Jean a whole lot more zeros if they wanted to.

Anyway, we should see how much bragging he's done when he appeals the judgement. For him to do that, the full $83.3 million has to be paid to the court to hold first. It would be nice to see his own big mouth come back and bite him in the ass.

 

[TX-Beau]

Trump may have toned down his comments toward E Jean, but it will be interesting to see if he tones down his bragging about how rich he is. It was only because of his bragging that the jury granted Jean so much money in punitive damages. They're not limited to actual wealth but on professed wealth as well. I joked about Trump bragging about the value of Mar-A-Lago above. The jury could have used that brag to grant Jean a whole lot more zeros if they wanted to.

Anyway, we should see how much bragging he's done when he appeals the judgement. For him to do that, the full $83.3 million has to be paid to the court to hold first. It would be nice to see his own big mouth come back and bite him in the ass.

That might have been the case if this was a settlement for property damage, injury, etc., where the goal is compensation. This was not determined by how much he might own; this was a deterrent to him acting as he did. The law sometimes specifies how high the fine can go, and the jury puts a price on deterrence, not according to how much he might be able to pay, but according to how much deterrence they determine was needed.

As in the case of Rudy, that can be far higher than the defendant has any possibility of paying. The point is not to recover money, though that's a nice side effect if it happens; the point is to warn others off of behaving in the same manner.

 

[KaraBulut]

...As in the case of Rudy, that can be far higher than the defendant has any possibility of paying. The point is not to recover money, though that's a nice side effect if it happens; the point is to warn others off of behaving in the same manner.

Or in this case, to warn the defendant not do repeat the same behavior.

 

[rareboy]

That might have been the case if this was a settlement for property damage, injury, etc., where the goal is compensation. This was not determined by how much he might own; this was a deterrent to him acting as he did. The law sometimes specifies how high the fine can go, and the jury puts a price on deterrence, not according to how much he might be able to pay, but according to how much deterrence they determine was needed.

As in the case of Rudy, that can be far higher than the defendant has any possibility of paying. The point is not to recover money, though that's a nice side effect if it happens; the point is to warn others off of behaving in the same manner.

When you consider that Guiliani was assessed nearly 150 million for 2 individuals, the Trump verdict is pretty consistent within the range.

There is also a rule of thumb apparently about punitive damages not exceeding 3 to 4 times the amount of other damages in order to withstand an appeal to reduce them.

It appears that this jury listened to the experts on damages in this case and did their best to ensure that the amounts will withstand Trump's inevitable appeals.

 

[rareboy]

I wish this article made me feel better.

And sometimes I think the real madness might possibly end the moment he is dead because all he is really interested in is protecting his own ass in his own lifetime...any thoughts of creating a dynasty died early on.

So yeah. His age and physical condition are in America's favour, as long as he is unable to turn the US into a military dictatorship supporting him and suspend the actual constitution in a way that represses all the rights of the states...which is not likely to happen within the next 8 years if he wins and seizes the second term.

But he can do immeasurable damage that could lay the groundwork for someone younger and even more evil to finish the job.

Trump Can’t Be Dictator on ‘Day One’ — Or in a Second Term. Here’s Why.

Even with a head start in a first term, it would take Trump a long time to bend our democracy to his will.

www.politico.com

 

[rareboy]

 

[rareboy]

 

[rareboy]

'alpha male' fangirl poetry...

 

[Norri]

I wish this article made me feel better.

And sometimes I think the real madness might possibly end the moment he is dead because all he is really interested in is protecting his own ass in his own lifetime...any thoughts of creating a dynasty died early on.

So yeah. His age and physical condition are in America's favour, as long as he is unable to turn the US into a military dictatorship supporting him and suspend the actual constitution in a way that represses all the rights of the states...which is not likely to happen within the next 8 years if he wins and seizes the second term.

But he can do immeasurable damage that could lay the groundwork for someone younger and even more evil to finish the job.

Trump Can’t Be Dictator on ‘Day One’ — Or in a Second Term. Here’s Why.

Even with a head start in a first term, it would take Trump a long time to bend our democracy to his will.

www.politico.com

The sainted Founding Fathers set up a form of government that is reactionary in its performance, change and reform are constantly thwarted by the obstacles the founders installed and that’s not even considering the senate filibuster. Change from within, as the article says will take lots of time unless we got 70% agreement on what that change should be. Also Trump doesn’t have the intellect or the ambition do attempt such things…..the fact that he will attract others who do is more concerning. One thing we learned from Covid is that Trump is risk adverse for any issue he can’t easily sum up on twitter or doesn’t result in instant adulation. With his following he could be a real danger but as I say he lacks the ambition.

 

[KaraBulut]

I wish this article made me feel better.

Trump Can’t Be Dictator on ‘Day One’ — Or in a Second Term. Here’s Why.

Even with a head start in a first term, it would take Trump a long time to bend our democracy to his will.

www.politico.com

It's a good article. I've lived in a couple of countries that had autocrats in charge. The article doesn't address is that the "leader" is only a tool and there's a movement behind the leader that is what brings them to power and then keeps them in power.

The three things that almost always creates the autocracy:

1. Money from powerful elites: The changes in the tax laws have allowed 50% of the wealth in the United States is owned by 1% of the population. It takes lots of money to get into power in the United States and as the saying goes, "you gotta dance with them that brung you". Your wish list cannot compete with the wish list of the 1%.
2. Complicity with religious organizations: We've allowed the line between Church and State to be blurred, so that ministers and religious figures are openly advocating from the pulpit for a second Trump presidency.
3. Plans to weaken or destroy controls on the executive: Autocrats come to power via democratic action and then they start changing the rules to keep themselves in power.

If you want to see what is planned for a 2025 Trump Presidency, look at The Heritage Foundation's Project 2025. One of the key things that they want is to get rid of the permanent Civil Service in government so that they can fill government agencies with cronies and lackeys. The article focuses on capturing the judiciary but doesn't talk about capturing the military and the civil service which is a key piece of an autocrat's power base.

 

[TX-Beau]

Toad is not going to try and change anything; he's just going to give unconstitutional orders and dare anyone to disobey. He'll order arrests and prosecutions. whatever toady he puts into Justice will no doubt try to comply.

Parsing legalities of anything will be a fucking moot point.

 

[rareboy]

So this is a pretty good wrap-up that aligns with my own reading of the likely outcome.

Trump won't be forced to sell his properties. He personally may be barred from doing business in New York but Ivanka and others will likely be given oversight of them.

As well, I think that the appeals on the size of the fine will likely never be finished and the $300+ million never paid.

As the article says, the Trump case is unique and sets up chilling possibilities for other corporations where there has been no proven harm or losses.

Dissolving Trump's business empire would stand apart in history of NY fraud law

AP’s review of nearly 150 cases since New York’s “repeated fraud” statute was passed showed that nearly every previous time a company was taken away, victims and losses were key factors.

apnews.com

 

[rareboy]

Toad is not going to try and change anything; he's just going to give unconstitutional orders and dare anyone to disobey. He'll order arrests and prosecutions. whatever toady he puts into Justice will no doubt try to comply.

Parsing legalities of anything will be a fucking moot point.

As we saw the last time around, the judiciary and legislative branches allowed this kind of behaviour with only drawn out and lukewarm push-back because the latter are chasing the same voters and the former are, in majority, christo fascist and racist enablers owned by corporate America and in their service to deliver the oligarchy they want.

 

[TX-Beau]

So this is a pretty good wrap-up that aligns with my own reading of the likely outcome.

Trump won't be forced to sell his properties. He personally may be barred from doing business in New York but Ivanka and others will likely be given oversight of them.

As well, I think that the appeals on the size of the fine will likely never be finished and the $300+ million never paid.

As the article says, the Trump case is unique and sets up chilling possibilities for other corporations where there has been no proven harm or losses.

Dissolving Trump's business empire would stand apart in history of NY fraud law

AP’s review of nearly 150 cases since New York’s “repeated fraud” statute was passed showed that nearly every previous time a company was taken away, victims and losses were key factors.

apnews.com

Who knows what's going to happen? Betting on precedent doesn't work anymore. Anyway, Toadco is in receivership; it won't be up to the Daughter Wife, Melanoma, Junior, or the Stupid One.

Unless of course, the court just decides to let Toad pick.

 

[TX-Beau]

As we saw the last time around, the judiciary and legislative branches allowed this kind of behaviour with only drawn out and lukewarm push-back because the latter are chasing the same voters and the former are, in majority, christo fascist and racist enablers owned by corporate America and in their service to deliver the oligarchy they want.

It frustrates me when the floating heads get all legalistic and pretend like any of that matters one wet fart to Toad. When are we going to start hearing the real threat, not quibbly parsing of the law, but outright tyranny with only the conscience of the people getting the orders or their willingness to defy them standing in the way?

 

[rareboy]

And of course...having run through most of the most horrible people to fill his administration in the four years he took a wrecking ball to just about everything...he will now only be choosing from the worst of the worst of them and from an even lower level of grifters and bottom feeders.

Expect Roger Stone, Bannon, Kellyanne, Vivek, Mnuchin and the thugs he tried to pack the government with over his final 12 months in office to all be back.