Trump to Rescind Protection for Trans Students

[Benvolio]

THIS IS NOT ABOUT SHOWERS!!

It's no accident that it's the first activity word you used here.

Same thing when the military was still free to discriminate - the naysayers for equality made it sound as though ALL they ever do in the military, outside of sleep, was shower, shower, shower, shower ALL THE TIME. Did they even have time to eat?

If YOU were a transsexual...you had your fixin's but, otherwise, you were a woman in virtually all other respects (and, NO, NOT that "I think I'll be a woman today" but it's a full aspect of your being)...and you lived in a place like North Carolina...I'm SURE that you would happily embrace going into the men's room and "outing yourself as a Trannie" every time you do. Right? Yes, of course you would embrace that, even if you knew the threat of being beaten into unconsciousness by the guy with the NASCAR-enhanced testosterone who hates "freaks" would always be there every time you pee **IN YOUR PRIVATE STALL**.

But by appearing to be a woman in ALL visible effects (except perhaps body type), walking into the men's room (AS REQUIRED BY LAW) is ALWAYS tantamount to yelling, at the top of your voice, "Hey guys, LOOK - I'm a transsexual!"

You are totally focused on the 1 in 500 or who is transexual, while brushing aside the discomfort and fears of the 499 women of rape or molestation if men are allowed to use the womens rooms. Who says showers are not involved? Are schools to allow transsexuals to use women's restrooms but only mens showers and locker rooms? I emphasize showers because you want to ignore them. Allowing fully equipped heterosexual but transgendered men to use womens showers and locker rooms is so unreasonable you want to ignore the problem.
What should the rule be according you? 1. Any man can use the women's rooms? 2. Any man who says he is... ?. Any man in womens clothing and make up? 4. Any man with a certificate from a doctor that he is transexual? Democrats can't afford IDs and who will check them. Please tell us the great democrat plan.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Closet case Republicans project, they assume that since they do their dirty deeds in the bathroom out of shame that this is what everyone else does.

In reality, 99% of us, regardless of gender, shit and piss in there.

 

[Benvolio]

Closet case Republicans project, they assume that since they do their dirty deeds in the bathroom out of shame that this is what everyone else does.

In reality, 99% of us, regardless of gender, shit and piss in there.

You persist in ignoring the feelings of all the women who are uncomfortable and fearful of sharing.

 

[rareboy]

And still you are clueless.

You would have trans who look and dress and are considered (often legally) female strolling into the men's room. Gee. No chance for assault there, is there?

And trans who are totally male in appearance and biology (except they may still have a vagina) strolling in and using the female washroom. Gee. No chance that a real sexual predator hetero male would ever use that as an opportunity to go in and perv on the girls is there?

Your answers so repeatedly and consistently fail to meet the simplest test of logic that I return to my premise that you are incapable of comprehending the point.

Clueless. Simply clueless.

 

[Benvolio]

And still you are clueless.

You would have trans who look and dress and are considered (often legally) female strolling into the men's room. Gee. No chance for assault there, is there?

And trans who are totally male in appearance and biology (except they may still have a vagina) strolling in and using the female washroom. Gee. No chance that a real sexual predator hetero male would ever use that as an opportunity to go in and perv on the girls is there?

Your answers so repeatedly and consistently fail to meet the simplest test of logic that I return to my premise that you are incapable of comprehending the point.

Clueless. Simply clueless.

I ask , as I did in #@28 below, what do you think the rule should be?

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

You persist in ignoring the feelings of all the women who are uncomfortable and fearful of sharing.

Lets not pretend you actually care about feelings here and are more concerned with rhetorical "superior" rights.

 

[Kabluey]

You are totally focused on the 1 in 500 or who is transexual, while brushing aside the discomfort and fears of the 499 women of rape or molestation if men are allowed to use the womens rooms. Who says showers are not involved? Are schools to allow transsexuals to use women's restrooms but only mens showers and locker rooms? I emphasize showers because you want to ignore them. Allowing fully equipped heterosexual but transgendered men to use womens showers and locker rooms is so unreasonable you want to ignore the problem.
What should the rule be according you? 1. Any man can use the women's rooms? 2. Any man who says he is... ?. Any man in womens clothing and make up? 4. Any man with a certificate from a doctor that he is transexual? Democrats can't afford IDs and who will check them. Please tell us the great democrat plan.

And Ben is focused on the infinitesimally smaller 'transsexuals who prey on women' demographic.
Seriously, is there any data that supports his fears? The chances must be somewhere below the 1 in a million mark.

There have been cases of transsexuals being beaten and killed in and following encounters in public toilets. Apparently Ben wants that.

 

[rareboy]

Benvolio. It is so simple.

You use the washroom that matches your gender identity. You go in and go into a cubicle and take a shit. Or a piss. You get out of the cubicle and wash your hands and leave.

Any other activity is already covered by law.

So if you are a homo male for instance, and cruise the toilets for public sex or to perv on guys...that is covered.

If you are a straight female who cruises the men's toilets for public sex or to assault guys...that would be covered.

If you are a man who pretends to be a woman for the purposes of perving on women (although how this happens in a room with stalls, I have no idea) that is already covered.

If you are a male who assaults a woman in the washroom, that is already covered...whether you are wearing a dress...or just hid in the washroom until a woman comes in...that is covered.

I have written about this before. The last time I travelled in Europe, I noticed that it was possible for some places to have a whole bunch of stalls and sinks in open areas with no real distinction of whether men or women or transexuals would use them. In fact, the more open and non binary the set-up was...the safer it actually was.

In Canada, there is a shift toward inclusion of universal toilets and 'family toilets' in all buildings which beautifully accomodates every person's needs.

Perhaps, unlike you and your repressed reactionary bigot fellow travellers, we finally see toilets for what they are. Toilets.

Not places for closeted men afraid of their sexuality to party. Just toilets.

Not places of dire threat to safety. Just toilets.

And when it comes to your change and showers.....I am currently working with one of the largest Canadian municipalities in North America on dealing with gender diversity issues at a municipal level....which is why I find your reactions so incredibly obtuse and hopeless and ignorant beyond the pale.

 

[rareboy]

"By rescinding these protections, the Trump administration is compromising the safety and security of some of our most vulnerable children," said American Federation of Teachers president Randi Weingarten.

"Reversing this guidance tells trans kids that it's OK with the Trump administration and the Department of Education for them to be abused and harassed at school for being trans."

And this is what it is really all about.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-transgender-washroom-guidelines-1.3994473

 

[Benvolio]

Benvolio. It is so simple.

You use the washroom that matches your gender identity. You go in and go into a cubicle and take a shit. Or a piss. You get out of the cubicle and wash your hands and leave.

Any other activity is already covered by law.

So if you are a homo male for instance, and cruise the toilets for public sex or to perv on guys...that is covered.

If you are a straight female who cruises the men's toilets for public sex or to assault guys...that would be covered.

If you are a man who pretends to be a woman for the purposes of perving on women (although how this happens in a room with stalls, I have no idea) that is already covered.

If you are a male who assaults a woman in the washroom, that is already covered...whether you are wearing a dress...or just hid in the washroom until a woman comes in...that is covered.

I have written about this before. The last time I travelled in Europe, I noticed that it was possible for some places to have a whole bunch of stalls and sinks in open areas with no real distinction of whether men or women or transexuals would use them. In fact, the more open and non binary the set-up was...the safer it actually was.

In Canada, there is a shift toward inclusion of universal toilets and 'family toilets' in all buildings which beautifully accomodates every person's needs.

Perhaps, unlike you and your repressed reactionary bigot fellow travellers, we finally see toilets for what they are. Toilets.

Not places for closeted men afraid of their sexuality to party. Just toilets.

Not places of dire threat to safety. Just toilets.

And when it comes to your change and showers.....I am currently working with one of the largest Canadian municipalities in North America on dealing with gender diversity issues at a municipal level....which is why I find your reactions so incredibly obtuse and hopeless and ignorant beyond the pale.

So women just have to accept that men have a right to enter, and share the bathroom etc and that their own discomfort and fear is unimportant, because the feelings of the 1 transgender is more important than the 499 women who are fearful and uncomfortable. But, in your view this is no problem because rape is illegal--i guess that is what you are saying. Yet the whole question comes up because the 1 guy who wears womens clothing into the mens room might be assaulted and the illegality is not enough to protect him. You cannot see the inconsistency between relying on the law to protect the women from men coming in who may or not be transgender and on the other hand needing something other than the law to protect man in the dress. You are totally focused on the tiny minority and totally oblivious of the feelings and needs of the individuals in the much, much larger majority. You inability to even try to see the problems of the majority should disqualify you from the job you claim to have.

 

[gsdx]

I ask , as I did in #@28 below, what do you think the rule should be?

Well, thank you very much, Mr. B., for NOT answering my question that I asked 4 fuckin' times!

 

[vulgar_newcomer]

If the minority of transgenders are allowed to impose themselves upon the much larger group unwilling girls, then the transgenders are "more equal" and superior. But the real question is, who gets to decide, the people through democracy, or a liberal dictator? Allowing biological men to impose themselves in the girls rooms does not eliminate their delima and shame, and puts the girls in danger. The transexuals are not necessarily gay but are often attracted to the girls they want to share showers etc with.

Whats wrong with you right wing nutters? This deals with schools. This is not about little girls using the restroom with a 35 yr old man dressed in drag. This is about girls and boys and transgendered kids in schools. Because the far right nutters are hung up with sex and they relate to their own twisted perverted fantasies they can't understand how simple this is.
I doubt your old tired ass has ever known a 12 or 13 yr old transgender kid. What do you think happens to a cute feminine dressed transgendered biological boy in the boys rest room??? Think there is any bullying? You likely don't give a shit about their right and fears.
What a sad sack.

 

[Benvolio]

Whats wrong with you right wing nutters? This deals with schools. This is not about little girls using the restroom with a 35 yr old man dressed in drag. This is about girls and boys and transgendered kids in schools. Because the far right nutters are hung up with sex and they relate to their own twisted perverted fantasies they can't understand how simple this is.
I doubt your old tired ass has ever known a 12 or 13 yr old transgender kid. What do you think happens to a cute feminine dressed transgendered biological boy in the boys rest room??? Think there is any bullying? You likely don't give a shit about their right and fears.
What a sad sack.

You don't give a damn about all the girls who do not want to undress, shower or share restrooms with boys. Why are you never interested in the rights of the other individuals?
12 or 13 is too young to be allowed to start to live life as the opposite sex. Most trans genders decide to hide that aspect of gender, while living conventionally as an apparent member of their biological sex, often having wives snd children. It is a rational decision which should not be forestalled by a commitment in high school. The schools should not encourage or allow that commitment to be made by cross dressing when they are too young to evaluate their options.

 

[Kabluey]

So women just have to accept that men have a right to enter, and share the bathroom etc and that their own discomfort and fear is unimportant, because the feelings of the 1 transgender is more important than the 499 women who are fearful and uncomfortable.

But apparently people who look like men entering the women's rest room is better.
I recall people who were fearful of and uncomfortable around black people having to buck up.

But, in your view this is no problem because rape is illegal--i guess that is what you are saying.

Rapists can enter women's toilets in any guise. Of course there would have to be no witnesses for anything to actually happen. I can only imagine the complicated plot required for Ben's rape scenario to ever eventuate.

Yet the whole question comes up because the 1 guy who wears womens clothing into the mens room might be assaulted and the illegality is not enough to protect him.

There is a proven history of sexual and physical assaults committed against transsexuals. Quite different from Ben's transsexual sex predator fantasy.

You cannot see the inconsistency between relying on the law to protect the women from men coming in who may or not be transgender and on the other hand needing something other than the law to protect man in the dress.

Transexual people have been using the toilets of their choice up until now. History has proven the risks Ben shrieks about to be baseless.

You are totally focused on the tiny minority and totally oblivious of the feelings and needs of the individuals in the much, much larger majority. You inability to even try to see the problems of the majority should disqualify you from the job you claim to have.

And Ben is focused on protecting the rights of the majority even when they have been proven over time to be at no risk, in favour of placing a minority at a proven risk.

That's the kind of brutal logic that sees people killed. Nothing new here. Nothing acceptable about it either.

 

[Benvolio]

But apparently people who look like men entering the women's rest room is better.
I recall people who were fearful of and uncomfortable around black people having to buck up.



Rapists can enter women's toilets in any guise. Of course there would have to be no witnesses for anything to actually happen. I can only imagine the complicated plot required for Ben's rape scenario to ever eventuate.



There is a proven history of sexual and physical assaults committed against transsexuals. Quite different from Ben's transsexual sex predator fantasy.



Transexual people have been using the toilets of their choice up until now. History has proven the risks Ben shrieks about to be baseless.



And Ben is focused on protecting the rights of the majority even when they have been proven over time to be at no risk, in favour of placing a minority at a proven risk.

That's the kind of brutal logic that sees people killed. Nothing new here. Nothing acceptable about it either.

Many women are molested and raped every year and allowing men to use womens restrooms would no doubt result in additional ones as women are placed in close quarters with men out of pulic view. Go back and read my question ar #28. What should the rule be? If you give all men the right to use the women's room you are placing women at risk and justified fear.

 

[kev]

For once, I disagree with Benovolio.

I think this is a federal issue. This falls under the "right-to-privacy" part of the Constitution. People have a right to take a leak without the opposite sex being in the room, and thank you President Trump for giving Americans that right that back. I for one cannot start peeing if there is a girl in the room. I don't care what she thinks about herself. This is about me and my rights.

 

[Kabluey]

Many women are molested and raped every year and allowing men to use womens restrooms would no doubt result in additional ones as women are placed in close quarters with men out of pulic view. Go back and read my question ar #28. What should the rule be? If you give all men the right to use the women's room you are placing women at risk and justified fear.

How many are molested and raped by men dressed as women?
Because until the fundamentalists lost their shit, transsexuals have been using the toilets of their choice without this happening.

You're making it up.

 

[luckynumbah7]

How many are molested and raped by men dressed as women?
Because until the fundamentalists lost their shit, transsexuals have been using the toilets of their choice without this happening.

You're making it up.

He seems to be unawares that restrooms (barring single-occupancy) are public places. You're not out of 'public view' when half the public can walk in at any given moment to note your shoe size. It's particularly amusing since the men's restrooms tend to be more private than the women's, even when including the obligatory urinal use. Women generally have no issue quizzing your ass if they've any curiosity or confusion about your presence there; men'll do the obligatory glance at you but if you don't read as feminine in a particular manner they usually won't do shit; it's against that unspoken restroom code.

Besides, he already endorsed actual men using the women's room by willfully ignoring about half the trans population.

 

[Mariatenebre]

He is merely revoking an improper attempt to meddle in matters within state jurisdiction. There is no reason why the wishes of a tiny minority should outweigh the wishes of all the many girls who do no want to share locker rooms, showers and toilets with men.

Except again transwomen are not men and again you ignore that if you force transwomen into male bathrooms then you will have transmen in female bathrooms. Again transpeople should have the right to use the bathroom of our gender identity.

However I am not surprised at this I have stated before while I don't think that Trump necessarily hates LGBT people he will go against them to further support from the religious right again not shocked.

 

[Mariatenebre]

If the minority of transgenders are allowed to impose themselves upon the much larger group unwilling girls, then the transgenders are "more equal" and superior. But the real question is, who gets to decide, the people through democracy, or a liberal dictator? Allowing biological men to impose themselves in the girls rooms does not eliminate their delima and shame, and puts the girls in danger. The transexuals are not necessarily gay but are often attracted to the girls they want to share showers etc with.

So by the same token you could use the argument that back in the day allowing African Americans to use White facilities made them superior to the White people when it reality like in the case of trans people this allowed them equal rights. You do not have a right to deny someone else equal rights and again there has not been one case of a trans person abusing a bio female in the bathroom and you also ignore that if you do this. Then ciswomen will have to share the same bathrooms as transmen who look indistinguishable from men. Which again you ignore.

If the trans have the right to impose themselves on unwilling girls, they are legally superior to the girls. Trump has done nothing to take away rights. The transexuals never had the "right" to intrude in the girls rooms, and I certainly do not want that right nor do I want women to have the right to share mens rooms and showers. I doubt if Canadian girls are happy about being required by the government to share their showers etc with men, as you seem to be saying.

So would you also say that White people who wanted segregated facilities were violated by non Whites being able to use their facilities. Again transwomen are not men and if you force people to use the bathroom of the gender they are born in then you will have transmen using the same bathroom as girls. So tell me who would girls rather have in the bathroom with them Blaire White or Buck Angel?

So women just have to accept that men have a right to enter, and share the bathroom etc and that their own discomfort and fear is unimportant, because the feelings of the 1 transgender is more important than the 499 women who are fearful and uncomfortable. But, in your view this is no problem because rape is illegal--i guess that is what you are saying. Yet the whole question comes up because the 1 guy who wears womens clothing into the mens room might be assaulted and the illegality is not enough to protect him. You cannot see the inconsistency between relying on the law to protect the women from men coming in who may or not be transgender and on the other hand needing something other than the law to protect man in the dress. You are totally focused on the tiny minority and totally oblivious of the feelings and needs of the individuals in the much, much larger majority. You inability to even try to see the problems of the majority should disqualify you from the job you claim to have.

Again your rule does not solve the problem it makes it worse. A transwoman is not a man and has the right to use the female restroom. Now if you force people into the bathroom of their biological gender. You will have men like this using the female restroom just because he has a vagina. Now tell me how many women would like to see him in their bathroom?
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=buck+angel&FORM=HDRSC2
Vs. this girl.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=blaire+White&go=Search&qs=bs&form=

You don't give a damn about all the girls who do not want to undress, shower or share restrooms with boys. Why are you never interested in the rights of the other individuals?
12 or 13 is too young to be allowed to start to live life as the opposite sex. Most trans genders decide to hide that aspect of gender, while living conventionally as an apparent member of their biological sex, often having wives snd children. It is a rational decision which should not be forestalled by a commitment in high school. The schools should not encourage or allow that commitment to be made by cross dressing when they are too young to evaluate their options.

Actually 12 or 13 is a good age to transition given that they can avoid puberty and this pass more plus trans kids have been driven to suicide for forcing them to be the gender they don't identify in. Now tell me how many teen girls would like for a teen Buck Angel to use the bathroom with them vs a teen Blaire White. Again the majority has no right to vote away the rights of the minority.