Trump wants to limit student loan borrowing

[frankfrank]

So, you're saying that you are perfectly fine with people having to pay mortgage level monthly payments right after college?

Again, I'm not saying we should ban student loan all together.

Fun fact. A private loan can balloon up to a ridiculous amount due to ridiculous high interest rates.

Interest rates on student loans are unconscionable, considering those that come from the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. Why does the government suddenly have to be a profit-center when it comes to student loans?

I also question the value of higher education in general. A guy I play Scrabble with, when we hung out over food afterward, he was talking about college-loan debt (and, among other things, that it cannot be dissolved via bankruptcy - ANOTHER "fun fact" that a lot of people don't know), the utterly absurd tuition...and he told me that now about 70% of high school graduates go to college. (Of course that doesn't mean they graduate...)

Doesn't that diminish the value of a college degree? There are still a LOT of jobs that have to be done manually, and some college grads are waiting tables and such.

I predicted a "COLLEGE BUBBLE" ten to fifteen years ago (Oh OK probably a littler more recently, as the real estate bubble had already popped...but it's only gotten more ridiculous since) - I still think that bubble's gonna burst and the result isn't going to be any fun at all.

 

[canteventhinkstr8]

I seem to have the unpopular opinion here, lately: I don't think each and every person should go to college. Some fields require it, but MOST don't.

I think the real problem is that a lot of managers are just becoming too lazy and entitled to train their employees, anymore. They expect them to all have a degree, or some other form of post-high school education... and it's still just for "entry level pay", even if you already have 2-5 years of experience in the field. It's becoming difficult for a lot of people to actually be paid what they should be worth... or what they would have been getting paid before the Great Recession.

To me, it feels like the economy and the job market has made relatively decent recoveries since 2007/2008. It's just that managers, landlords and for-profit education are trying to get away with as much as they can, for as long as they can. It's only going to get worse until either the "bubble pops", there's legislation put in place to make things a little more fair for both sides... or both.

 

[gsdx]

One of the ways student loan debt can become high by the time of graduation is the opportunity to use proceeds of the loan for living expenses. It's something students should think about when deciding how to finance their education.

I don't think it's just a matter of living expenses. I can recall during my university years back in the 1970s listening to a guy on the bus bragging about how he had lied about his parents' earnings and was using his student loan and/or grant money to take a trip to Florida in the summer. There was no 'spring break' back then. Still, back then, I received a $1,200 loan and a $1,500 government grant. My parents were expected to match that amount. My total costs for my university degree, including tuition, books, room and board, etc., totalled about $7,000.

The problem today is not just that tuitions and cost of living have gone up so much, it's because the students are using their money to buy laptops, new cell phones every few months, new 65" televisions, new cars, new vacations, and new anything that they probably wouldn't have been able to afford without the loan. Then they have to take out more loans to make up for the money they wasted on junk they absolutely had to have. On top of that, they get credit cards which can put them into debt for life if they don't know how to use them.

These are the problems which should be worked on and not depriving less privileged people an education they deserve.

 

[Dominus]

I don't think it's just a matter of living expenses. I can recall during my university years back in the 1970s listening to a guy on the bus bragging about how he had lied about his parents' earnings and was using his student loan and/or grant money to take a trip to Florida in the summer. There was no 'spring break' back then. Still, back then, I received a $1,200 loan and a $1,500 government grant. My parents were expected to match that amount. My total costs for my university degree, including tuition, books, room and board, etc., totalled about $7,000.

The problem today is not just that tuitions and cost of living have gone up so much, it's because the students are using their money to buy laptops, new cell phones every few months, new 65" televisions, new cars, new vacations, and new anything that they probably wouldn't have been able to afford without the loan. Then they have to take out more loans to make up for the money they wasted on junk they absolutely had to have. On top of that, they get credit cards which can put them into debt for life if they don't know how to use them.

These are the problems which should be worked on and not depriving less privileged people an education they deserve.

I've been saying for years that schools should teach less useless stuff and actually teach things that matter in real life, like how to manage money and compounded interest. To me, it is ridiculous that they make students memorize cloud formations, the different types of rock, apoptosis, etc. But not once do they teqch practical things like opening a bank account, how credit card debt can baloon up due to compounded interest, etc.

See, school administrators believe that finances are suppose to be taught by the parents. What if the parents themselves are ignorant of these things? The current education system works against the poor because of this very phenomenon of teaching students useless facts but completely avoiding real life financial things.

And this is the time where I have to point out that everytime in the past I pointed this out the popular kids on here always pile up on me. All the usual people who want unlimited student loan debt but cry bloody murder at the thought of k12 teaching students how to manage money.

 

[mikey3000]

Are you talking about obtaining a mortgage?

It's about anything really. Would you loan someone $50 to buy a newspaper? I don't think degrees are as important as everyone thought they would be. There are so many jobs in America right now and not enough bodies to fill them. In WNY I have seen many good jobs being advertised, and willing to train is a big pull. Not everyone has to be a doctor, lawyer or an engineer.

 

[gsdx]

I seem to have the unpopular opinion here, lately: I don't think each and every person should go to college. Some fields require it, but MOST don't.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that everybody should go to college or university, so you're not in a group by yourself. The common feeling (and opinion) here is that, for many poorer young people who truly want to go to college, the costs are prohibitive. For many, the only way to get the education they want (or need) is through a scholarship, but one little injury can quickly put an end to that.

As it is, the cards are stacked against the less-privileged.

 

[luckynumbah7]

I remember looking into the cost when I was in high school and disliking my odds. I looked up a few pages this afternoon, an undergraduate degree cost increased 161 times today what it did in 1987, that's after inflation is taken into account. That's why I went for vo-tech, not that that did me a damned bit of good job-wise.

https://www.marketwatch.com/graphics/college-debt-now-and-then/

 

[mikey3000]

A post secondary education is not a right, it is a privilege that must be earned. Not everyone qualifies to go to college, whether they want to or not.

 

[smokeshadow]

I've been saying for years that schools should teach less useless stuff and actually teach things that matter in real life, like how to manage money and compounded interest. To me, it is ridiculous that they make students memorize cloud formations, the different types of rock, apoptosis, etc. But not once do they teqch practical things like opening a bank account, how credit card debt can baloon up due to compounded interest, etc.

See, school administrators believe that finances are suppose to be taught by the parents. What if the parents themselves are ignorant of these things? The current education system works against the poor because of this very phenomenon of teaching students useless facts but completely avoiding real life financial things.

And this is the time where I have to point out that everytime in the past I pointed this out the popular kids on here always pile up on me. All the usual people who want unlimited student loan debt but cry bloody murder at the thought of k12 teaching students how to manage money.

I remember being taught about checking/savings accounts way back in the 6th grade (1967) and how to balance a check book around the same time. Then later, probably 8th or 9th grade, about simple and compound interest and how to calculate both. Aristo - are you stating that children these days are not being taught these in todays educational system before they reach college level?

 

[luckynumbah7]

I remember being taught about checking/savings accounts way back in the 6th grade (1967) and how to balance a check book around the same time. Then later, probably 8th or 9th grade, about simple and compound interest and how to calculate both. Aristo - are you stating that children these days are not being taught these in todays educational system before they reach college level?

They probably aren't. I was taught how to balance a checkbook and how to calculate simple interest, but that was probably due to unusual circumstance. I graduated in 2002. The partner, who graduated in 2006, was taught none of it in school.

 

[Dominus]

I remember being taught about checking/savings accounts way back in the 6th grade (1967) and how to balance a check book around the same time. Then later, probably 8th or 9th grade, about simple and compound interest and how to calculate both. Aristo - are you stating that children these days are not being taught these in todays educational system before they reach college level?

Do a Google search on this. I'm not the only one who complains about the lack of financial education in schools these days.

I cant tell you how many people I have talked to who have no idea how devastating compounded interest can wreak havoc on their credit card loans.

With the risk of being accused of bragginf because I'm bringing my personal experience into this, neither my husband nor I was taught about money in k12. Most of our friends are also in our as age group and they don't remember being taught about money either.

And if we were, it probably showed up as a homework problem in math class. How to manage money and other financial smarts ought to be a class of its own. If they could dedicate an entire semester to making us memorize rocks, they ought to be able to dedicate at least a semester on money.

Edit.

And no, econ doesn't count. Economic theories have little use for a kid who grew up in poverty and has to work minimum wage part time at McDonald's. I'm referring to more practical aspects of financial literacy.

 

[luckynumbah7]

They probably aren't. I was taught how to balance a checkbook and how to calculate simple interest, but that was probably due to unusual circumstance. I graduated in 2002. The partner, who graduated in 2006, was taught none of it in school.

Mmm, should explain. Dad kicked me out in the middle of 11th grade so I had to change schools. The classes at the first were taught in half year blocks, the second school's classes were taught year-round and I refused to repeat a grade.

I wouldn't budge on the vo-tech training, which were half days, so the principal and I came to an agreement - the rest of the day was largely spent in the 'bad behavior' room where they kept the delinquents and pregnant teens and I doubled up on the the core subjects I still needed credits in, largely doing 'em on my own time while also having to complete the 'core subjects' (pfffft) that the kids in that class had to do, otherwise I apparently didn't 'qualify' to be there. One of which was checkbook balancing and interest rates. Pretty basic. Their 'math books'* (and oh boy do I hesitate to call them that) were shit, full of wrong answers - I was also taking another math class (an actual one in an actual classroom) and there continue'd to be no learnin' of life's necessities there, either. I'm still occasionally startled their one good idea was limited to the kids they clearly roundly disliked.

*Truth be told, I'm not even sure if it was an actual math class or just something the damnable principal made a requirement of the students who were in the room, as there were a few other courses in there that the rest of the student body could've used as well.

 

[Dominus]

^^ I think you guys misunderstand me.

Financial smarts is a lot more than knowing how to balance your checkbook or what compounded interest was. I know what a mitochondria is and what the double bilipid layers are. Am I biologically smart? Hell, no. I would say that I don't know the first thing about microbiology.

What I have been advocating for many years now is school putting more priority on teaching about money. Not just random facts like what a checkbook is. I mean really teach people about cash flow and how to manage a lifestyle with what's available.

Again, they dedicate whole semesters making kids memorize rock formations and other useless facts to real life. I'm sure these topics are of interest to some. But they are totally useless info for the typical kid who grew up in a poor neighborhood who's being preyed on by payday lenders.

 

[luckynumbah7]

...er, no. Nope. You know what fucked my mother over? Her adopted into middle-class ass didn't know how to balance a checkbook. Possibly because my grandmother didn't control the money and my mother grew up in the same school area system I went to.

So bills, they went a-sliding, and she works herself to death sans healthcare though she's never going to catch up. That's pretty bad. Then she got into payday loans & credit cards. That was much worse. Unlike my father, who was firmly born into poverty, she started with a fairly clean slate.

But poor people who grow up poor aren't stupid. We know how to 'be poor' - most of us didn't get here through the foolish financial choices you hear your peer group making or imagine that you'd make make yourself in our shoes because you're missing great chunks of information about how to navigate basic necessities when you're poor. 'Financial smarts' my lily-white ass - most of it is luck, timing, common sense & who you know. Most poor people aren't getting the arts & philosophy degrees you're so vociferously complaining about, I'm willing to bet. Certainly one of 2 main reasons I didn't zoom towards one. Or are you willfully ignoring the increase of 161%? Cuz I noticed that was glossed over.

 

[luckynumbah7]

...you know why I think people are complaining about college tuition costs? Cuz it's the middle class getting fucked. Except some other bits of the middle class are going 'neener nene r, must be cuz you have 'no financial common sense enough to budget for a 161% increase.'

Despite how much of a pay wage percentage increase for the common man? I'll wait.

 

[mikey3000]

^^ I think you guys misunderstand me.

Financial smarts is a lot more than knowing how to balance your checkbook or what compounded interest was. I know what a mitochondria is and what the double bilipid layers are. Am I biologically smart? Hell, no. I would say that I don't know the first thing about microbiology.

What I have been advocating for many years now is school putting more priority on teaching about money. Not just random facts like what a checkbook is. I mean really teach people about cash flow and how to manage a lifestyle with what's available.

Again, they dedicate whole semesters making kids memorize rock formations and other useless facts to real life. I'm sure these topics are of interest to some. But they are totally useless info for the typical kid who grew up in a poor neighborhood who's being preyed on by payday lenders.

But TPTB don't want people to understand money concepts. The more you understand, the less likely you are to rack up debt. Look at the BIG picture. Why do you think banks are happy to give credit cards to "newcomers". At 29% interest some banks make a billion dollars a month. Everyone wants us in debt right up to our eyeballs.

 

[luckynumbah7]

...you know why I think people are complaining about college tuition costs? Cuz it's the middle class getting fucked. Except some other bits of the middle class are going 'neener nene r, must be cuz you have 'no financial common sense enough to budget for a 161% increase.'

Despite how much of a pay wage percentage increase for the common man? I'll wait.

Oh, my bad. The Not-so-common man, that is, those who graduate college. If the platform itself you're standing on is financial ignorance of the masses (that you seem to be insisting is the root cause of the whole affair) one leg of that is the (lack of) wage increase, that means it takes an extra 4 years and change with an undergraduate degree to get out from under. The other three legs have gotta be the exorbitant cost of college, the inability to declare bankruptcy in times of absolute necessity and the outright smug condescension that the failure to succeed must lie with the great masses of students themselves just because you know some delightfully dim primates of the human persuasion. The latter in particular does not encourage addressing the actual issues - however, I do happen to agree, wholeheartedly in fact, with mandatory life skill classes being taught in high school for everyone. At any rate, considering financial arrangements may not be stable that's an awfully shaky platform of 'it's their own ignorance' you seem to be perched on.

 

[luckynumbah7]

Tho that isn't to say poor people don't get sucked into payday loans n'shit. I don't think a large part, or even a middling part, of the, ah, 'financially disadvantaged' population uses them though. They practically had skulls and crossbones painted on their doors. When I can't get X, I don't go trying for y, which costs more in the shorter term. Generally speaking, the people I knew who did that had already gone 'fuck it'. Which is its own issue, that kind of long-term stress, but methinks you'd likely label it solely under 'lack of financial smarts'.

 

[gsdx]

What I have been advocating for many years now is school putting more priority on teaching about money.

That has never, ever, been part of the educational system as far as I'm aware. Students leaving school 'back in the day' and getting out on their own learned about life and money very quickly. With the coming of the computer age also came young people with more ways of getting into debt than ever before, and it has ballooned almost daily over the past few years.

There are going to be a lot of very hard falls before things change. Just don't expect to find courses about money finding their way into the educational system very soon. Real life is the best teacher. Unfortunately, there are a lot of students who simply cannot or will not learn.

 

[Dominus]

[luckynumbah7], am I getting this right that you are opposed to schools teaching about money to students?

I'm not naiive enough to think one thing will solve everything. But it is a start.

Fine with me if you don't want schools teaching about money to students. Doesn't affect me or my family at all.

Carry on.