Trump wants to limit student loan borrowing

[TickTockMan]

I like the thought, but it is surely to screw certain people more than to help anyone.


Personally I would like the fed to help people pay for vocational/trade schools more.


If they want a huge loan, let them.

 

[luckynumbah7]

That has never, ever, been part of the educational system as far as I'm aware. Students leaving school 'back in the day' and getting out on their own learned about life and money very quickly. With the coming of the computer age also came young people with more ways of getting into debt than ever before, and it has ballooned almost daily over the past few years.

There are going to be a lot of very hard falls before things change. Just don't expect to find courses about money finding their way into the educational system very soon. Real life is the best teacher. Unfortunately, there are a lot of students who simply cannot or will not learn.

They did have courses about money. I remember school very, very well. Learned it with the rest of the basics, in second & third grade I believe. Right along with analog timepieces was "what can you buy with how much money" and later, in high school, the glory of sales tax and interest rates in word problems. And for the dyslexic (or lazy), calculators are also available. It's amazing how many people brush off ridiculous tuition prices with "I know a guy..." & "Let's pretend the majority of them can't seem to handle money all of a sudden!"

if that's actually the argument he's making the impoverished college tuition demographic is being indescribably insulted since that isn't how they largely got there.

All they did is what I didn't do, which was bet against the house.

It's more of a gamble than a financial decision and was when I was in high school as well. I only gamble in poker or blackjack because the house'll fuck you over every time while using the occasional 'winner' to prop itself up.

It's not that someone 'did everything right', it's that they got lucky. Call it luck, but I certainly can't contribute it entirely, or even mostly, to skill. Not these days with these dropout rates at these tuition costs at these wages.

 

[TickTockMan]

Oh, for God's sake, man!! Learn to read what I write!! Where in hell do you get that idea!!???

Why don't you just write my fuckin' posts for me!?? You seem to know what I saying more than I do!!!

I gave you a second chance and then a third! This was your last chance to insult me!

Have a nice day!

Haha


He wasn't talking to you.

 

[luckynumbah7]

Hm, though I'm not sure real life is the best teacher, here, I think the combo is off. Should be taught in elementary as it currently is, and then in junior high in its own class instead of scattered in various high school math classes. And they should include the checkbook & loan questions for a solid measure, then boot the buggers into collaborating on some gradual real life monetary future plans - starting in junior high. Everyone can pick something to aim for, ants something they think they can do that will earn the funds they calculated they'd need to achieve it - for a grade, of course.

 

[Dominus]

Oh, for God's sake, man!! Learn to read what I write!! Where in hell do you get that idea!!???

Why don't you just write my fuckin' posts for me!?? You seem to know what I saying more than I do!!!

I gave you a second chance and then a third! This was your last chance to insult me!

Have a nice day!

You ever asked your parents why they named you lucky?

 

[luckynumbah7]

Haha


He wasn't talking to you.

Lemmie get this straight, you ignore actual tuition costs vs the costs of Days Gone By & that the concept of money hasn't changed in...forever and yet, what you choose to respond to is someone taking your own clearly baiting remark because he missed the moniker and laughing at an honest mistake. You're being an ass.

If you scroll down someone mentioned in this very thread that interest rates & cash problems in math are currently taught to students (was it you?) so's you'll have a difficult at best time blaming 'basic financial smarts' as the cause.

-my bad, got you mixed up with Aristo. The ass comment stands. A mere moniker mixup is far from a political critique.

And neither is a comment on what my parents named me, since I'm not going to bother posting a new message to Aristo when he fails to reply to actual points with links given.

(And for the record, such as it stands, I don't seem to agree with gsdx's view of people being monetarily incompetent (as I understand the term to usually be used) here.

 

[Alnitak]

All this limitation on borrowing does is knock out poorer students.

It is class warfare, not some altruistic 'saving people from themselves' .

The banks are starting to recognize that they are going to e faced with massive.....and I mean massive defaults because education has become crazy expensive.

But inflation will also mean that the 100k invested for an education in 2019 is less than the cost of a new car within 20 years.

Anyone with a shred of intelligence will divest himself from exposure to student debt.

 

[gsdx]

Haha


He wasn't talking to you.

It might as well have been me. He's rewritten enough of my posts.

I'm finished with him. And I refuse to apologise. He has never apologised to me. He just makes excuses and does it again.

 

[TickTockMan]

Lemmie get this straight, you ignore actual tuition costs vs the costs of Days Gone By & that the concept of money hasn't changed in...forever and yet, what you choose to respond to is someone taking your own clearly baiting remark because he missed the moniker and laughing at an honest mistake. You're being an ass.

If you scroll down someone mentioned in this very thread that interest rates & cash problems in math are currently taught to students (was it you?) so's you'll have a difficult at best time blaming 'basic financial smarts' as the cause.

-my bad, got you mixed up with Aristo. The ass comment stands. A mere moniker mixup is far from a political critique.

And neither is a comment on what my parents named me, since I'm not going to bother posting a new message to Aristo when he fails to reply to actual points with links given.

(And for the record, such as it stands, I don't seem to agree with gsdx's view of people being monetarily incompetent (as I understand the term to usually be used) here.

Point was he was telling someone to learn to read when he can't even do it himself. The rest of your post has nothing to do with me.

 

[opinterph]

I think too many people are going into too much debt for degrees that they will never use. Too many philosophy and art history degrees that cost $80-150K.

I think your attention to college students’ major field of study may be somewhat overrated. College is less about filling your brain with specific knowledge than it is teaching you how to achieve objectives as you proceed forward after graduation. Though a degree is most often associated with landing a good job, it can also be helpful in giving you tools that lead to a happy and more productive life outside the realm of employment.

Job specifications are generally based upon KSAs (knowledge, skills, and abilities) that are applicable to each respective position within an organization. In some situations, they can also involve specific certification or licensing, as appropriate to the position.

Most job specifications cannot validate a college degree as a basis for selection – even though many employers list a degree as a general requirement for certain positions. Nonetheless, a degree can be used as a preference in recruitment and hiring, because a degree provides evidence of discipline, research skills, information evaluation and processing, analytical skills, problem-solving skills, etc.

 

[opinterph]

But you think being bogged down by $100k+ student loan debt and a monthly payment that is almost a mortgage payment is making it?

[youtube]r7JcHz6ucyI[/youtube]

[youtube]StG4sR2E5-Q[/youtube]

$900/month payment

$1600/month payment

I didn't watch the vids, but am interested in the associated rates of interest and number of monthly payments for the loans you appear to be offering as examples. If you can provide those data values without being burdened to re-watch the vids, I'd appreciate it.

 

[luckynumbah7]

Personally, I find it odd he thinks high school doesn't teach basic money relations already. The hell did he think he was doing in math class with those word problems. The only difference is I'd like to include the material (not separate, but include) it in a course of its own along with other life skills. Chequebooking and various banking matters would also be a good idea.

 

[smokeshadow]

^^And, some fields. . .for example architect, doctor, civil engineer, MEP engineer, and similar. . .require a college degree and a minimum period of time (usually several years) practicing under the auspices of a licensed practitioner in the field one's degree is in to be eligible to sit for the exam (in the case of an architect, it's a 4 day, 32 hour exam ). Then, one has to pass said exam with a minimum score (76 on all portions of the exam when I took the architects exam in '81) before one can legally be called a "whatever professional"

 

[opinterph]

Personally, I find it odd he thinks high school doesn't teach basic money relations already. The hell did he think he was doing in math class with those word problems. The only difference is I'd like to include the material (not separate, but include) it in a course of its own along with other life skills. Chequebooking and various banking matters would also be a good idea.

I agree with your suggestions. Those classes were offered at my high school, but students were not required to take them.

 

[luckynumbah7]

I agree with your suggestions. Those classes were offered at my high school, but students were not required to take them.

That does warm the cockles. Didn't have many electives at my graduating high school, I much preferred the one I went to before my sorry excuse for a father evicted my ass. I definitely think it should be a requirement tho. Or perhaps something a student can test out of, provided the test is comprehensive.

 

[luckynumbah7]

I like the thought, but it is surely to screw certain people more than to help anyone.


Personally I would like the fed to help people pay for vocational/trade schools more.


If they want a huge loan, let them.

Trade schools are free for high school students so long as you go during school hours. It takes the place of your electives. Or at least it did mine, and the buildings served schools in quite a few districts.

As for adults, if vocational-technical is free, then so should be college.

 

[Dominus]

OK, assuming everything you guys say is right, are you in favor of keeping the system as is or if you want to see changes what would you like those changes to be?

 

[frankfrank]

I've been saying for years that schools should teach less useless stuff and actually teach things that matter in real life, like how to manage money and compounded interest.

All the usual people who want unlimited student loan debt but cry bloody murder at the thought of k12 teaching students how to manage money.

Do they scream bloody murder about that? No, in general they just don't really say anything about it.

YES this stuff should be taught. Start with the stuff about compound interest, balancing a checkbook, etc. in Grade 6 or 7. These courses should be required. By graduation, teens should also be aware of WHAT KINDS OF COSTS ARE INVOLVED IN RAISING CHILDREN, how contracts work, how insurance works, how to do spreadsheets, how to budget, health tips, college life and scholarships, the structures of government, the various kinds of Courts and what they do, etc. Some young people will just willy-nilly "pop out a baby or two" while being entirely unaware of the responsibilities and costs.

It's about anything really. Would you loan someone $50 to buy a newspaper?

Well, when hyper-inflation strikes and it costs $50 to buy a newspaper, yes...I guess.

an undergraduate degree cost increased 161 times today what it did in 1987, that's after inflation is taken into account.

Say it right, at least...it's a 161 PER CENT increase - or, put another way, the degree costs 261% what it was in 1987. That's STILL something that defies a good explanation, because inflation has never been a major factor in the 32 years since 1987. (The huge inflation that happened during the extremely-high-interest-rates years in the early 1980s had already happened.)

I remember being taught about checking/savings accounts way back in the 6th grade (1967) and how to balance a check book around the same time. Then later, probably 8th or 9th grade, about simple and compound interest and how to calculate both. Aristo - are you stating that children these days are not being taught these in todays educational system before they reach college level?

They're not. They're definitely not. I had NONE of this stuff in my middle and high school years 1959 to 1965, and I went to what was considered a GOOD suburban school district. (It wasn't a suburb YET, but has grown into one now.)

 

[TickTockMan]

Personally, I find it odd he thinks high school doesn't teach basic money relations already. The hell did he think he was doing in math class with those word problems. The only difference is I'd like to include the material (not separate, but include) it in a course of its own along with other life skills. Chequebooking and various banking matters would also be a good idea.

I agree with your suggestions. Those classes were offered at my high school, but students were not required to take them.

At my high school we had to take economics. There we learned about money, how to keep a check book, taxes, how to buy and sell stock, mutual funds and bonds, etc. It was required to take at least two classes of it.

Trade schools are free for high school students so long as you go during school hours. It takes the place of your electives. Or at least it did mine, and the buildings served schools in quite a few districts.

As for adults, if vocational-technical is free, then so should be college.

I don't know about the trade school thing, but I am for tuition free college and I would include all trade and vocational schools.

Everyone talks about college as if it is the end all of be all, but the fact of the matter is we need people in trades probably even more.

 

[luckynumbah7]

Say it right, at least...it's a 161 PER CENT increase - or, put another way, the degree costs 261% what it was in 1987. That's STILL something that defies a good explanation, because inflation has never been a major factor in the 32 years since 1987. (The huge inflation that happened during the extremely-high-interest-rates years in the early 1980s had already happened.)

It was the ass-crack before false dawn, and technically speaking, English wasn't my first language (according to my mother it was Spanish, since both of 'em worked and I spent most of the time with the neighbors), though I'm afraid I'd forgotten most of the Spanish before havin' to start over. Sue me. Board couldn't possibly have noticed my unusual writin' structure by now, oh no...
Admittedly there's grammar issues, but clarity is usually had by the end.

Besides, ya knew what was meant, which is, arguably, the whole point of the endeavor.