Tyler Clementi

[MoufOfKhaos]

how so? i don't think he intended for the prank to get to the point where tyler killed himself. deportation is a bit serious for something like this.

You're calling it a prank? On what grounds?

 

[refujiunderground]

I cannot agree, Refujji.

The legal definition of "involuntary manslaughter" consists of a defendant doing something intentionally, which leads to a death, in which the defendant should have known there would have been a risk of danger using ordinary prudence. Very often, deaths related to drunk driving are prosecuted this way.

If my understanding of the sequence of events is correct, Ravi posted a video online of Tyler making out with a dude.

He should have known there was a risk of danger which could lead to a death, Refujii, and by that definition, I vote "guilty as charged".

no, ravi is not the one that made tyler jump off a bridge. tyler was the one that chose to jump off a bridge and kill himself. yeah, ravi wanted to hurt tyler for his enjoyment but i doubt that he wanted tyler to kill himself. if he knew that tyler was going to do what he did, i don't think he would have done that shit. there are plenty of people that have went through the same thing tyler clementi went through where they were taped having sex without their consent as a prank where it has circulated all over the web. i've heard and seen it. i don't know what happened in those cases but why should this case be treated differently because tyler chose to kill himself while those people didn't? funny how i haven't heard any of the offenders in those cases being hit with as much charges as this case. i hate to say it but maybe tyler being gay has something to do with it. i know that's a touchy subject but hey... i'm all for equal and fair justice across the boards for everyone. we may have to tweak certain things here and there based on the offense such as this one since the lgbt community is discriminated in all realms of socety but still.

i understand what you're saying but if the justice system applied what you're saying for every suicide that happened, there would be a lot of people that would be facing murder charges. there are plenty of people that have killed themselves from getting laid off from jobs by companies. should the ceo responsible for the layoffs be responsible for former employees killing themselves?

 

[refujiunderground]

You're calling it a prank? On what grounds?

on the grounds of what was said about the case from news sources and the case file itself.

 

[FanofFiction]

Tyler was a member here. He was one of us. Given that, I find refuji's comments especially callous.

If your harassment drives someone to kill themself, you need to be punished severely for it. It's not like Ravi called him a few names... he broadcast Tyler having sex.

Deportation? I think that sounds lovely actually. I wish we could deport every bigot. There are enough homophobic arses here in North America as is, we don't need to take on any extras.

 

[Telstra]

well, i think that the penalty the other guy is facing is a bit harsh. dude is going to get kicked out the country if he gets convicted along with facing 10 years in prison or something like that. i know he will be deported and his citizenship will be terminated if he gets convicted. i think he should be made an example out of but not so much where he doesn't learn from what he did as well as others. let him be a walking example of what happens when you take your homophobia to a level where it leads to someone being hurt with something that fits what his actions are accounted for. he shouldn't be penalized for tyler killing himself. he had some responsibility for that but he shouldn't be blamed for what tyler did to himself.

oh, that means all criminals should be deported no matter if they are US citizens or not. How come those people behind bars are not deported ??

 

[refujiunderground]

would you have included Tyler on your deportation list? he said some pretty damning things about his Indian roommate.

personally, I'm waiting for a jury to weigh in on whether this was a bias-motivated crime or just a stupid prank gone badly.

no one with full knowledge of the situation, though (eg: the cops, prosecutors, TC's parents), have suggested that Ravi is responsible for his suicide.

yeah, tyler wasn't innocent either. he did say some derogatory comments about his roommate to one of his friends via text messaging. obviously, there was some fiction between the two. honestly, i don't think most people even know enough about the case to even comment on it.

 

[refujiunderground]

I have done my own research into what has been said about the case. People can say that Tyler said some things about his roommate, but what Ravi did was far more insidious. Don't even try to excuse criminal behavior. Ravi's actions were criminal, hence why he is being charged with various charges.

And people keep saying "oh it was just a stupid prank"... utter nonsense. This is far more hurtful then just some dumb prank.

i completely understand what you're saying but there are young people outthere that don't understand the law and the consequences behind their actions when it comes to the internet. yes, there are people that actually do things like what ravi did for laughs and entertainment purposes using the internet. believe it or not, shit like this is a lot more commonplace than you think and has been going down for years. i think this case is very significant for the internet community being that this is the first case where harrassment via the internet is being charged as a criminal offense. i've seen internet forums where the moderators and administrators have allowed shit similar and worse than this to take place claiming that they have no responsibility for the poster's actions on the forum. i wonder if JUB has a similar policy towards this.

to me, this honestly sounds like there must have been some tension going on between the two and ravi decided to take it to the next level with tyler by humliating him on the rutgers campus with the whole webcam thing.

 

[refujiunderground]

I think he was old enough and if he didn't know too bad. It's pretty much common sense. If you do something insidious, it can have severe consequences. I don't think it was for laughs at all. I think there was something far more sinister at play here. This isn't just some dumb prank.

And you've seen worse than this to take place on forums? Really? What happened here was indeed a crime. And the charges are indeed appropriate. It's really quite simple. One doesn't have to know the law... they just need to know that committing a insidious action against someone can have devastating consequences.

Being callous about it and saying it was nothing is wrong. Downright wrong.

It wasn't for laughs or entertainment. It was intended to destroy a person. I'm tired of people saying "oh it was just a stupid prank gone wrong"... no... it was malicious, it was directed and has strong motives.

i'm telling you from all these years that i've been on internet forums, people do do shit like that for laughs and entertainment. yeah, there's people that get high off of seeing people get miserable on and off the internet even if it fucks that person's life up. i've seen people get their addresses put up, their phone numbers hacked, have all types of shit sent to their houses, and the whole shabang just for laughs. it's known as "exposures". it's basically when someone's dirty laundry is put up for all to see. an example of an exposure would be someone at another forum that i've been on for 10 plus years making a thread saying that i'm a homo. the forum is a known homophobic place intolerant of gays and being that i'm in the closet, have some enemies on that site and have lied to them that i like women, they will pretty much run me into the ground with that shit. some people i know offline actually look at that website too so i would pretty much be fucked if that happens.

in no way am i saying that that kind of shit or what he did was right at all because people lives do get fucked up over that. yeah, those people that are humiliated become victims where the internet, people that know them and etc know their business and they pretty much have their reputations ruined. what he did was wrong and uncalled for. he should be punished for that. you can say that ravi pretty much made tyler depressed, helpless, and etc because his reputation was soiled over at rutgers where everybody knew he was gay. everybody was going to ridicule him to the point where he probably wouldn't be able to come out his dorm room or he might have had to transfer to another school. however, i don't know if it would be fair to say for ravi to take the full responsibility of tyler killing himself. people should take a lesson from this story that the internet can build and destory lives. you can be a star on youtube and you can have your whole shit ruined on a blog of you naked, sucking dick.

 

[Just_Believe18]

I wish we could have saved him. If only he gave us some warning, anything that we could have gone by to help him. His thread here still haunts me. We had given him all the right advice...

 

[backpacker]

I have been watching the trial. So far the prosecution witnesses have done a good job of proving invasion of privacy, but have totally killed the case for a hate crime. Testimony has included that Dharun never made homophobic statements and didn't have a problem with his roommate being gay. They basically have said it wasn't a big deal. The big deal about Tyler having a guy in the room was that the guy was much older, not that Tyler was gay. The media is also reporting that Dharun had gay friends and I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple as defense witnesses. Even if the prosecution puts on some witnesses that say Dharun has made homophobic remarks, I think reasonable doubt has already been established for the hate crime. I'm posting this so that people aren't surprised when he walks on the hate crime.

I now understand why Dharun was offered a plea deal with no jail time. The case for a hate crime is very weak and they probably preferred not to try to prove it. What I can't understand is why Dharun didn't take the deal. The invasion of privacy conviction is pretty much a given. The evidence and witness tampering charges will probably stick as well. The hate crime has very little chance. The plea deal probably didn't include the hate crime as the law mandates jail time. To me the plea deal is the best case scenario for what could come from the trial. The media says his problem with the plea deal is probably related to immigration issues and the chance of being deported once he is convicted. I would think he has a better chance of staying in the country with a plea deal than with a jury conviction. I don't get why he didn't take the deal. Now the guy who was with Tyler has to deal with testifying and a chance his identity will be made public. That sucks for a guy who is already been victimized.

 

[refujiunderground]

After all these years you've been on internet forums? I assure you I have seen enough on the internet and have even moderated forums in the past, but nothing amounts to what happened here.

Oh give me a break. I can't believe I missed this reply. For one, there is a difference between trolling on an internet forum or playing a practical joke... and what happened here. This has far more malicious intent. This is nothing compared to what you have posted here. I'm sorry, but no. This is about the clear invasion of privacy. You keep trying to brush this off as a practical joke gone wrong. I'm so happy the prosecutor disagrees with you.

from most of the cases that i know involving people exposing each other on an internet forum where their naked pics, porn videos and etc goes out to everyone on the message board, it's pretty much the same shit. people do it to be funny in a malicious way. they pretty much try to ruin whoever's reputation on the internet forum therefore making them run off the message board. the only difference here is that this involved a dorm room with people instead of a web forum or a chatroom. that's the only difference. all these situations involved the internet and someone's privacy being violated by someone who had access to someone's person life by being around said person.

But you're excusing it and saying "oh but it happens before, and it isn't serious... it was just a stupid practical joke" etc... it's sugarcoating over the malicious intent and criminal behavior. The law sees it a certain way and not the way you are see it. You're just saying that it was just a practical joke and he shouldn't be punished?

no, i'm not saying that. i don't think you're understanding what i'm saying. you know how somebody might fun of someone for whatever reason it is maybe because they don't like them around other people or another reason. the person that is being made fun of rightfully feels insulted and victimized by said person making the jokes. i'm sure you can relate to that. the person making the jokes may be having fun and entertained at said person's misery. this is similar to bullies and bullied kids. the one that is being bullying may be realize how hurtful their actions are because they get a kick out of doing what they do. should that person be punished? of course.

Somebody killed themselves for goodness f-king sakes because what happened. It wasn't just about reputation at this point. It's about something far more malicious. And it wasn't just about the internet... this is about someone's roommate and about a webcam. Do you even follow the story or do you make things up as you go along?

nobody knows why he killed himself though. it's assumed that the webcam thing had something to do with it but we don't know. with that said, i think it's unfair to blame his suicide on them even if it may have been the webcam, which once again nobody knows. no matter how you look at it, suicide involves one's self and only one's self. i can kill you but i cannot under no circumstances make you kill yourself. i can tell you to kill yourself, do horrific things to you and etc but the choice is yours. he chose to handle it that way though. you cannot charge them directly for what he chose to do with himself after that.

This was shown to people in his life. Not some people on a forum sucking a dick. Big major difference. You keep trying to excuse this behavior by saying "there is much worse stuff out there"... I don't think so. People might have their reputations ruined and what not... but this case ended in a suicide. And if you knew about the law... you would know it's something far more serious.

how so? the only people that knew him were the roommate. from what i understand, everybody else that saw the webcam didn't even know him. how is that different from strangers on a web forum seeing some pics or webcam of someone that someone else that knows that someone leaked out on purpose? what if such case ended up in a suicide? then what?

And it's easy for you to say all this when you're not even out and you're trying to put on an act so nobody in your own life can cause problems. But you know what irritates me the most about what you say? You try to minimize what happened... and you think the guy should get off with a slap on the wrist... seriously... there is a big difference between some bogus forum and what happened here. This is something a ROOMMATE DID TO HIS OTHER ROOMMATE. Two people who directly know each other!

minimize what happened? i think you just misunderstood what i said. no way did i say he should get a slap on the wrist. all i'm saying is that he decided to do whatever which was crossing the line and he should pay for what he did.

but seriously though, i don't think that stuff of that nature is cool regardless of what happens to the person afterwards. i've seen how people done some fucked up things where they leak people's photos out, show pictures and all that stuff of said person to be funny in a malicious way and seeing said person get away with such shit. i felt that the website that sanctioned such behavior should have done a better job or at least get the authorities or something involved. i just felt that the website was pretty much getting itself into problems because what if the person that was being victimized decided to get even with so and so and hurt or even kill the person that did that to them.

you know, i think all of this shit basically goes back to how people get a kick out of seeing other people's dirty laundry being aired out like jerry springer, cheaters and maury. it's like people actually think that finding out so and so child isn't theirs "you are not the father" or finding out that so and so cheated on so and so with domino duck or whoever the fuck is funny and whatever. so they come with this sort of mentality and try to pull this tv drama out in real life thinking that it's supposed to be a joke not realizing that this is real life and not a tv show. basic lesson, people need to mind their business, find a hobby, be respectful of other people, and quit being entertained off of bullshit.

 

[Kabluey]

There was someone who pasted a link to what I think might have been a New Yorker article on the events. That was in a previous thread on Tyler.
It was well written. Made for worthwhile, if disappointing reading, but at least it seemed to set out what happened with a clear head.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

it is a say sumthang of a human condtion
wen whole populations a lands it a 21st or 100th century or 1
no just go say their cultures of twat Dildo heads runnin da shows
fas a eons

Fuck This

wen alls world leaders of lands meet united nations
go smash ya heads tagda
mash um up
see figa where da 1 square cell is
ans try make it curvy

thankyou

 

[Kulindahr]

point of information--

Dharun Ravi is a citizen of India, in the United States on a student visa. If he is convicted of a felony, deportation is not part of the punishment, it's an event leading to automatic cancellation of the visa, which would mean he has a certain amount of time to get things in order and leave the country. If he's convicted of a misdemeanor, the prosecutor can ask for the visa to be cancelled but the court doesn't have to grant that; however the INS has the option of reviewing the situation and can either reverse or affirm the judge.



and another--

Tyler had complained to his RA about Ravi several times and gotten no action. When the video came on top the the RA not caring, it was too much.

 

[unloadonme]

I hope you've all noticed that JUB has demonstrated its support by deleting Tyler's thread from the Garden of Memories forum as part of a "housekeeping" exercise.

 

[EJMichaels]

I hope you've all noticed that JUB has demonstrated its support by deleting Tyler's thread from the Garden of Memories forum as part of a "housekeeping" exercise.

I hadn't noticed. Now, nothing there except SilverSurfer's thread. Is there a good reason?

 

[unloadonme]

I hadn't noticed. Now, nothing there except SilverSurfer's thread. Is there a good reason?

I asked. The answer is, as I said, is "housekeeping". Personally, I think that's a poor show.

 

[refujiunderground]

Loki, I read the article again, this time from beginning to end.

Assuming the article is 100% correct, after knowing all of the facts, I would have to acquit Ravi of involuntary manslaughter.

Let's get back to suicidal ideation, however. Suicide is very rarely a snap event. Typically, suicidal ideation continues for years unchecked, and most often, one overwhelmingly traumatic event pushes the victim over the edge, a divorce, a loss of job, a sudden onslaught of homelessness, being outed openly over the Internet, and so on.

It is obvious to me that Tyler harbored suicidal thoughts for years. It's also obvious to me that the events surrounding Ravi's little prank pushed him over the edge, and directly brought about his suicide.

yeah but in no way can you blame them for that though. it's unfortunate that tyler was going through that though. without giving too much away, i can kind of relate to the whole suicidal ideation thing and all but still... at the end of the day, it still falls on the suicide victim though. sad but true.

if anything, this should encourage people that feel like that or if you know someone who may be a risk to themselves or others to get help before it's too late. you never know what someone is going through or what they're dealing with. this is one reason why people should watch what they say or how they treat other people because you don't know who has what, who's crazy, or what someone is capable of. that ohio school shooting leads back to that point. you could be making fun of some kid with depression or with a serious anger problem that might have been abused or going through ptsd then he/she ends up killing themselves or bringing a gun to school on some revenge type shit. i most definitely can relate. the flip side is that no matter how mad with someone based on whatever or how sad you are with yourself because someone belittled you, it still doesn't warrant you hurting someone out of anger or even hurting yourself over it. there's a right and a wrong way to go about something. kill yourself may seem like a way to breath easier but at the same time, you're giving up and to me, it's just wrong.

i just wish the dude could at least have said that he had issues in his life or at least one of you guys could have encouraged each other to speak about your issues. i have to say this though, you guys appear to be some cold, uncaring motherfuckers fronting like you have feelings and emotions so he probably saw that and felt like he couldn't say anything to you guys. stop lying on your dicks, keep it real with yourselves and quit trying to act all angelic like you aren't like everybody else. it kind of sickenings me to see you guys trying to act all holy and saintlike yet you guys appear to be self centered, cold, mean, rude, fresh and the whole nine. fake ass motherfuckers. not saying all of you but most of you are like that though.

 

[refujiunderground]

Who are you to blame the victim here? Who are you to deflect blame? And how on earth are you in any position to judge and criticize people on this forum? You're aggressive, rude and you don't have any ground to stand on. Who are you calling fake?

I'm tired of it man. We are uncaring? Excuse me? You are the one who seems incredibly callous over this whole situation. Not everyone can be big and macho like you throwing punches in life.

that's what YOU think. have you ever asked yourself how others see you though such as a lurker? i'm aware that i am cold, insensitive, rude, aggressive, and hostile in my posts. very aware of that. i go to other forums as well and they've all said the same thing as well as people in real life and i agree which is question myself sometimes. in real life, people say that i have anger issues, anxiety problems, no confident, nervous, shy and etc and they say that i'm a good person and friendly. on the internet, people say i keep it real, don't care what anybody thinks because i tend to not share the majority opinion, and some even call me a psychopath/sociopath. *shrugs* i think as men we have such egos where we tend to view ourselves in a better light than what we are. i'm guilty of this and as far as i'm concerned, you are too. nobody's perfect.

but speaking of which, you have a real big problem with people's viewpoints that are different than yours where you can't just respect them and you are very argumentative. i have no problem with you though but i guess you take things a bit too personal with people that you don't agree with which to me is kind of ridiculous because it's really not that serious. i do not know you offline so i cannot judge you outside of here. i think you need to relax a bit. please don't kick my ass because i don't have the same stance on this as you do.

 

[refujiunderground]

@Giancarlo: Wow, I missed this the first time I read refujji's post.

All I can say is,"Wow" Stunned. Shocked.

@Refujji, this part of your post is so far off leftbase that I'm left with nothing to say.

It was nice talking to you, though.

nice talk to you too, man. bye.