UK Supreme Court Decision on Gender

[unloadonme]

Trans what sorry?

I see what you're getting at, but I think I've distinguished "trans women" from "women" perfectly clearly.

 

[Taz]

I see what you're getting at, but I think I've distinguished "trans women" from "women" perfectly clearly.

No, you’ve perfectly demonstrated how illogical the new law is.

 

[unloadonme]

No, you’ve perfectly demonstrated how illogical the new law is.

There isn't a new law. The Supreme Court case concerned the correct interpretation of the Equality Act 2010. Simply put, the question for the court was whether trans women count as women for the purposes of the act, and the court said they don't.

 

[Taz]

There isn't a new law. The Supreme Court case concerned the correct interpretation of the Equality Act 2010. Simply put, the question for the court was whether trans women count as women for the purposes of the act, and the court said they don't.

let me rephrase that then.

The decision is illogical.

 

[unloadonme]

let me rephrase that then.

The decision is illogical.

If you were to read the judgement, you'd see that their lordships have described in several places how the opposite decision would create legal incoherence. You're free to disagree of course, a lot of people do, including the vandals who have been defacing statutes in London in the name of free speech.

Home Secretary Yvette Cooper calls damage to statues 'disgraceful'

Graffiti is found on seven statues of historic figures in Parliament Square following a trans rights protest.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Taz]

If you were to read the judgement, you'd see that their lordships have described in several places how the opposite decision would create legal incoherence. You're free to disagree of course, a lot of people do, including the vandals who have been defacing statutes in London in the name of free speech.

Home Secretary Yvette Cooper calls damage to statues 'disgraceful'

Graffiti is found on seven statues of historic figures in Parliament Square following a trans rights protest.

www.bbc.co.uk

Oh my the lordships have said so!

So does that mean that the laws could never be changed or amended to facilitate the opposite decision?

Or perhaps that it just serves the status quo not to?

Because as we all know, the lordships have a long and illustrious history of having the best interests of the people at heart. I can’t imagine a world where the people that aren’t from the ruling class would ever have to fight for thier rights. /s

 

[NotHardUp1]

Like you supported your claims to the contrary?

I’m not here to educate you, just to tell you you’re incorrect.

If you are asking for a list of world cultures that viewed man and woman as I have said, I am able.

The vast majority of recorded history supports it. I posited it as a truism, the status quo, not merely some colonial construct.

 

[unloadonme]

Oh my the lordships have said so!

So does that mean that the laws could never be changed or amended to facilitate the opposite decision?

Or perhaps that it just serves the status quo not to?

Because as we all know, the lordships have a long and illustrious history of having the best interests of the people at heart. I can’t imagine a world where the people that aren’t from the ruling class would ever have to fight for thier rights. /s

Parliament is free to repeal, amend or pass fresh legislation whenever it wishes. However, I can almost guarantee that nobody is going to want to reopen this particular crock of shit controversial issue any time soon.

 

[Taz]

If you are asking for a list of world cultures that viewed man and woman as I have said, I am able.

The vast majority of recorded history supports it. I posited it as a truism, the status quo, not merely some colonial construct.

Now ask yourself the question, who recorded that history?

Colonialist cultures have always looked down on other cultures, and so the recording of history as we know it is inherently biased.

And even among that biased historical data we also have plenty of evidence to suggest that sex gender binary as we know it in the western world is not the thousand of years old default for most cultures on the planet.

If you want to know more a quick search on Google scholar will give you many peer reviewed journals and articles with more information.

 

[Taz]

Parliament is free to repeal, amend or pass fresh legislation whenever it wishes. However, I can almost guarantee that nobody is going to want to reopen this particular crock of shit controversial issue any time soon.

But thank god moral upstanding citizens like you are here posting your aye ayes and punching down on the 1 percent of intersex and trans people that exist.

Meanwhile completely ignoring the 1 percent of people with money and power who are actually making the world a shittier place.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Now ask yourself the question, who recorded that history?

Colonialist cultures have always looked down on other cultures, and so the recording of history as we know it is inherently biased.

And even among that biased historical data we also have plenty of evidence to suggest that sex gender binary as we know it in the western world is not the thousand of years old default for most cultures on the planet.

If you want to know more a quick search on Google scholar will give you many peer reviewed journals and articles with more information.

Every single successful culture on the planet conquered some other tribes to be the dominant culture of their area and/or epoch.

ALL histtory is writtten by the winners per se.

But that doesn't change the default of sexuality as male and female. Mores, customs, taboos, and practices all exist in various forms, but championing the least frequent or least successful doesn't imbue them with some inherent virtue by fact of defeat.

And whether Greeks looked down on the ba-ba-barians, or the Romans, or the Indians, or the Persians, or the Monguls, or the Manchu, or the Vikings, or the Spanish doesn't negate that almost all recorded empires, whether Christian, Hindu, Zoroastrian, Greek, or whatever, defined men and women as opposite sexes.

Whether their cultures, or endemic peoples, identified sexual deviants outside binary sexual roles didn't include those outliers being reidentified as men or women. Tthey were still other.

The assertion that history is written by dominant forces doesn't negate that they had binary sexual identities in common for the vast majority of them.

 

[NotHardUp1]

But thank god moral upstanding citizens like you are here posting your aye ayes and punching down on the 1 percent of intersex and trans people that exist.

Meanwhile completely ignoring the 1 percent of people with money and power who are actually making the world a shittier place.

And here we have the case in point. A debate cannot be had without the advocate for change impugning the integrity or equality of the opponent.

Your facetious attack on Paul's presumed morality (which he never asserts nor implies), as well as depicting him as "punching down" on the trans populattion, is typical of the debates that never happen for this very reason.

While accusing the opposition of being holier-than-thou, the advocates for change assume the position of holier than thou.

Additionally, you've created a straw man berating Paul as championing the "people with money" and ignoring their vices when that hasn't even been a portion of the topic, nor is present in the thread.

Rhetoric cannot replace substance. It is not relevant or germane to make ad hominen attacks withtout addressing the actual assertions used in rebuttal on the topic.

I've been posting for about two decades on this forum, and the pattern was here from the very beginning. When frustrated with the necessity of debating on point, a caucus forms that chooses to insult instead of deal with the topic.

 

[Taz]

Every single successful culture on the planet conquered some other tribes to be the dominant culture of their area and/or epoch.

ALL histtory is writtten by the winners per se.

But that doesn't change the default of sexuality as male and female. Mores, customs, taboos, and practices all exist in various forms, but championing the least frequent or least successful doesn't imbue them with some inherent virtue by fact of defeat.

And whether Greeks looked down on the ba-ba-barians, or the Romans, or the Indians, or the Persians, or the Monguls, or the Manchu, or the Vikings, or the Spanish doesn't negate that almost all recorded empires, whether Christian, Hindu, Zoroastrian, Greek, or whatever, defined men and women as opposite sexes.

Whether their cultures, or endemic peoples, identified sexual deviants outside binary sexual roles didn't include those outliers being reidentified as men or women. Tthey were still other.

The assertion that history is written by dominant forces doesn't negate that they had binary sexual identities in common for the vast majority of them.

No but I’m using that point to tell you to look at your biases

 

[Taz]

And here we have the case in point. A debate cannot be had without the advocate for change impugning the integrity or equality of the opponent.

Your facetious attack on Paul's presumed morality (which he never asserts nor implies), as well as depicting him as "punching down" on the trans populattion, is typical of the debates that never happen for this very reason.

While accusing the opposition of being holier-than-thou, the advocates for change assume the position of holier than thou.

Additionally, you've created a straw man berating Paul as championing the "people with money" and ignoring their vices when that hasn't even been a portion of the topic, nor is present in the thread.

Rhetoric cannot replace substance. It is not relevant or germane to make ad hominen attacks withtout addressing the actual assertions used in rebuttal on the topic.

I've been posting for about two decades on this forum, and the pattern was here from the very beginning. When frustrated with the necessity of debating on point, a caucus forms that chooses to insult instead of deal with the topic.

I’ll admit I got angry at him because of his snotty comment comparing me to vandals in the uk because I disagreed with him, and then the crock of shit comment he made. I notice you didn’t take him to task over that though, just me because he happens to have the same view about it as you.

But my comments were more to the trend on this forum at large, you can’t deny the amount of anti trans rhetoric in hot topics is far greater these days. Doesn’t that reflect a general trend in society spearheaded by the likes of the ruling class?

So you can take your holier than thou bullshit and shove it. Because it does make me fucking holier than thou to respect other human beings for who they say they are and not act like the government fucking know best for everyone.

We don’t live in history anymore the whole point of evolving as a society is to make things better for everyone, not just stick to what doesn’t work and then point at history as though it somehow excuses shit behaviour.

 

[LeicsDom]

Now ask yourself the question, who recorded that history?

Colonialist cultures have always looked down on other cultures, and so the recording of history as we know it is inherently biased.

Colonialism appears to be the new racism
Every single country in the world is 'guilty' of colonialism either now or in the past

 

[Taz]

Colonialism appears to be the new racism
Every single country in the world is 'guilty' of colonialism either now or in the past

Yeah, you’re one hundred percent correct.

What’s your point?

We shouldn’t do better?

Convenient how it’s practical to define people out of existence.

 

[TX-Beau]

Colonialism appears to be the new racism
Every single country in the world is 'guilty' of colonialism either now or in the past

This is an absurd oversimplification and callous dismissal of the subject.

 

[rareboy]

J.K. Rowling and her TERF squad are apparently delighted.

 

[HoodedRat]

^
Rowling has clearly gone a bit mental; she seems utterly obsessed with this issue.

 

[TX-Beau]

It seems strange that the created this universe that gave a place to left out kids, only to end up being such a shit. Was it an accident?