UK Supreme Court Decision on Gender

[TX-Beau]

He's claiming that butch lesbian women will be kicked out of women's spaces because the other women will see them as men.

Which is not true. That never happened before and won't happen now. Thanks to Mother Evolution, women can clock the sexes even better and faster than men. I've seen thousands of masculine butch lesbians and not one of them appears male to me for longer than a split second. The same goes for trans men, sorry. They may look masculine in pics and vids with lighting and editing but IRL, from tip to toe, they are always clockable. They are the size of a woman, the shape of a woman, have the hands of a woman and the hips don't lie either. Their knees have the angle of women's knees, not men's. The link between their hand and wrist is a woman's not a man's. The birdge of their nose, the depth of the eye socket, you name it: female.

Even his statement that women would "kick each other out of" spaces is male-brain thinking. Conflict resolution between women doesn't work like that.
Gay men can be misogynists too, and many on this forum are.

How long have you been a woman, and can you please introduce us all to Mother Evolution? Where exactly does she live? Frankly, that is a bunch of supposition and speculation about the tender natures of the more "sensitive" sex, from a man, and sounds not a little misogynistic itself.

 

[TX-Beau]

Friendly reminder that the British Medical Association is not, in spite of its name, a scientific organisation, but a trade union.

So the fuck what?

You're not talking about the point, you're just tossing verbiage, and I'm beginning to suspect being deliberately obfuscatious.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

What do you find confusing about older people being less inclusive? Do you find it otherwise? This is compounded by the people appointing them to lifetime appointments and their political agendas. Do you find that confusing? We live in an age where it is fucking blatant that Judges are making decisions based on hatreds and religion, polticqal expedience, and not the law. All you need to do to see that is look at a news ticker.

Lifetime appointments? All Supreme Court judges must retire at the age of 75!
Religion? Which of these 12 judges do you suspect of being religious?
How much do you know about UK law, really?

 

[luckynumbah7]

How long have you been a woman, and can you please introduce us all to Mother Evolution? Where exactly does she live? Frankly, that is a bunch of supposition and speculation about the tender natures of the more "sensitive" sex, from a man, and sounds not a little misogynistic itself.

[Text: Removed], dunno what to do with him at this point.

[Text: Removed]

As far as restrooms being safer and there being no violence pertaining to women's rooms when you stand out, even just a little, Nex Benedict says otherwise.

Edited to add, I wouldn't even consider him butch but he was out-ish, and that's where the problem was.

 

[luckynumbah7]

I don't think he's listened to a butch woman in his life, never mind an actual trans person.

And I said masculinity is policed, not that they'd all be mistaken for men. Tho they've certainly been mistaken for men before.

"I can always tell!' .....[Text: Removed] please.

 

[luckynumbah7]

Tho if ya want more recent, ‘Walmart bathroom transphobia’ should get you there. Involves all cis peeps.

So stupid, I swear to various gods. I refuse to hazard my chances in the women’s room and ya’ll can go grasp your collective pearls about it.

 

[luckynumbah7]

….but what gets me, since I’m here, is the blatant, willful ignorance concerning how half of humanity actually acts that’s so clearly on display at the moment. A gendered space is not synonymous with a ‘safe space’ and any who believe so are the devil’s chosen fool.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

Further, elevating cases where younger children are experiencing gender confusion when it appears to be the actions of a parent who denied binary sex has justly worried the larger society that a social view may be creating the confusion rather than it evolving independent of that view.

As TERFs would say: vegan cats!

The result is now that multiple states have required the use of hormonal inhibition of puberty to be illegal for a pre-pubescent minor. In other words, society isn't convinced that a boy who feels he identifies as female might feel differently once he undergoes natural puberty.

And rightly so. Before "affirming" care was a thing, 98% of gender-dysphoric kids grew out of it when they hit puberty and suddenly realised they were gay.

We are told that unless the absolutes advocated by the extreme are allowed, then we have become some dystopian society. Society rejects that reduction. We are seeing it over and over. All change is not progress.

TRAs believe their opponents to be "on the wrong side of history" but so did Goebbels when he coined that phrase in 1935.

And the US isn't alone in these social convulsions. Europe and the UK are undergoing their own catharsis.

Many EU countries never took things as far as some parts of the US and UK to begin with. Transgendering children was limited to England, the Benelux and the Nordic countries, who were also the first to stop it. In Spain, France and Germany it was widely debated but not practiced on the same scale, and the rest of Europe even less.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

I wasn't aware that For Women Scotland brought the case specifically on behalf of lesbians. I thought they were representing women more generally, therefore mainly heterosexual women. I also wasn't aware that "overzealous cops" were part of the problem. I'm pretty sure the police would prefer to stay well away from all aspects of trans rights issues.

It started with a number of nice middle-class ladies getting visits from the police to interrogate them on things they had tweeted, believe it or not, because TRAs had filed official complaints.
When those women sought each other, they came across the lesbian groups whose monthly dinners in the upstairs room of this pub or that curry joint was suddenly cancelled for turning down men in a wig and fishnet stockings claiming to be lesbian too. As Scotland suffered these Kafkaesque scenarios more than anywhere else (because Sturgeon), the Scottish women united and started the court case.
Oh, and also because they got the necessary funds from a nice middle-aged author from Edinburgh who was a longtime friend of the lesbian dinner group.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

You clearly haven't been paying attention to how this is happening in the Southern U.S.

I must admit I don't pay much attention to that part of the third world, no.

The laws apply to schoolchildren and college students.

Yes dear, and the laws don't call for "genital inspections" the way TRAs want to portray it. It calls for cheek swabs. DNA tests. Once in a lifetime. You know, as is already done in every sport outisde the Olympics, and prior to 1999, also at the Olympics.

This ain't no new thang, Bubba.

 

[TX-Beau]

I must admit I don't pay much attention to that part of the third world, no.


Yes dear, and the laws don't call for "genital inspections" the way TRAs want to portray it. It calls for cheek swabs. DNA tests. Once in a lifetime. You know, as is already done in every sport outisde the Olympics, and prior to 1999, also at the Olympics.

This ain't no new thang, Bubba.

Well, sweetie, if you bothered to post some evidence for that, you might be more credible. Snide and petty really don't inspire trust. And Sugar, the Olympics is also a sad doge to avoid addressing government incursion on civil liberties.

 

[TX-Beau]

I don't think he's listened to a butch woman in his life, never mind an actual trans person.

And I said masculinity is policed, not that they'd all be mistaken for men. Tho they've certainly been mistaken for men before.

"I can always tell!' .....[Text: Removed] please.

People with prejudicial attitudes always obfuscate like whirling dervishes to escape having to explain their prejudice. There is actually a conversation to be had on this subject, but some people will not stop dismissing anything they don't want to hear and participate.

Nothing new.

 

[NotHardUp1]

….but what gets me, since I’m here, is the blatant, willful ignorance concerning how half of humanity actually acts that’s so clearly on display at the moment. A gendered space is not synonymous with a ‘safe space’ and any who believe so are the devil’s chosen fool.

Not sure most people think of changing rooms and bathrooms as safe spaces at all. The venues where sketchy safety exists is really the point of determining whether vulnerable people will enter a bathroom, or whatever. Many a gas station, fast foodery, or even public school may be given a go because the larger site is either filthy or dangerous. Men rarely consider it in any venue, as their vulnerability would be more absolute, e.g., getting robbed, not assaulted.

And yes, it is a privilege that CIS peoeple "enjoy" that many non-binary individuals do not have. Caring about that and expecting society to make widespread changes for something they don't support, whether they do or do not understand, is only good for virtue points, as it doesn'r rise to the level of impacting policy makers.

Again, the point I made early in this thread about moral absolutes is evident. No one is being willfully ignorant. There is a real disagreement on what is happening in society, not an intent to ignore or harm anyone. Not agreeing with social and legal reforms may place members on different sides of policy, but forcing that to be an existential antipathy creates its own failure.

If a sexual minority cannot deal with debate amid a population of other sexual minorities, it explains why the greater society is much more of a lost cause socially and politically.

 

[luckynumbah7]

Eh, you do think of them as ‘safe spaces’ - otherwise there wouldn’t be the insistence that a bathroom is only for certain individuals who comply with popular gendered norms. The rest of us have been / get evicted. So ‘safe from’ = ‘safe space’; or are we ignoring the last nine pages of discussion that there was a ruling at all?

 

[unloadonme]

Eh, you do think of them as ‘safe spaces’ - otherwise there wouldn’t be the insistence that a bathroom is only for certain individuals who comply with popular gendered norms. The rest of us have been / get evicted. So ‘safe from’ = ‘safe space’; or are we ignoring the last nine pages of discussion that there was a ruling at all?

Bravo! If you want to go back to the Supreme Court ruling, I think you'll see that it has more to do with the principle that women's spaces should be for women and then the legal definition of women, and less or nothing to do with safety. I don't think it was ever suggested that trans women in general constitute a threat to the safety of biological women.

 

[LilBit]

He's claiming that butch lesbian women will be kicked out of women's spaces because the other women will see them as men.

Which is not true. That never happened before and won't happen now. Thanks to Mother Evolution, women can clock the sexes even better and faster than men. I've seen thousands of masculine butch lesbians and not one of them appears male to me for longer than a split second. The same goes for trans men, sorry. They may look masculine in pics and vids with lighting and editing but IRL, from tip to toe, they are always clockable. They are the size of a woman, the shape of a woman, have the hands of a woman and the hips don't lie either. Their knees have the angle of women's knees, not men's. The link between their hand and wrist is a woman's not a man's. The birdge of their nose, the depth of the eye socket, you name it: female.

Even his statement that women would "kick each other out of" spaces is male-brain thinking. Conflict resolution between women doesn't work like that.
Gay men can be misogynists too, and many on this forum are.

It absolutely has happened: https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2025/05...m-for-being-a-man-now-its-changing-its-story/

And this isn't the first time.

 

[luckynumbah7]

It absolutely has happened: https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2025/05...m-for-being-a-man-now-its-changing-its-story/

And this isn't the first time.

They pulled out visual phrenology - with an extremely sexist 'women are softer!' insistence despite the 'softer' sex historically and currently being vicious little fucks so - trust me, they don't care.

When you start going on about the width between someone's eyes you've lost the fuckin' plot.

edited to add, and that some people think this is a discussion between equals is blatant self-inflation. To have a discussion between equals you must consider all parties equal; and they do not.

 

[luckynumbah7]

-nvm, spotted it, sort;'ve, though all the context is gone. Although I still say more was removed than needed to be. The only thing that snagged an actual censor was the first three words, as the rest was about the topic.

 

[unloadonme]

Some Pride groups around the UK, including my home town of Birmingham, have decided to ban official representation of political parties at their events following the Supreme Court decision on sex and gender. They say that politicians will not be welcome until they demonstrate a "tangible commitment to trans rights".

This has upset some lesbian groups who say that the "Supreme Court decision, which was a clarification of existing law, protects the rights of lesbians as same-sex attracted women" and "as lesbians we're very relieved that our rights have been protected, and disappointed that Pride has once again abandoned lesbians".

Awkward.

UK Pride groups suspend involvement of political parties

The move comes after the Supreme Court ruling on the legal definition of "woman".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[rareboy]

a short essay from Daniel Lismore on FB:

" To all the TERFs telling me you’ve made women’s rights better by excluding trans women this is what you’ve really done
At Queen Elizabeth Hall a gender non-conforming lesbian born female was told by some bloke that the men’s is over there while she was just standing in the queue for the women’s toilet. A whole scene happened. But the women in that queue weren’t having it. They stood up for her. They told the bloke and his girlfriend to get lost
This is what’s going to happen now. This is the future you’ve chosen. This is the country you’ve helped build with your hate
You didn’t protect women. You made butch lesbians and androgynous women unsafe. You made anyone who doesn’t conform a target. You made it legal to humiliate people in public. You made it legal to question someone’s existence just for how they look
You didn’t win. You just made the world meaner
Before you try to argue again just remember this. Women’s rights are not more. They are no more.
This Supreme Court hearing has only empowered more men to abuse women."

We also now see where a male hotel security goon has no problem bursting into a toilet stall in a women's washroom while a woman is pulling up her pants to challenge her right to be there.

I would agree. Terfs have made women less safe.