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UK Supreme Court Decision on Gender

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rareboy said:
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That reminds me of the line "You're a Catholic the moment Dad came" from the Monty Python song Every Sperm is Sacred.

I'm no embryologist, but I was under the impression that an egg fertilised by a sperm carrying a Y chromosome immediately becomes a male embryo. The fact that male genitalia don't develop on day one, doesn't mean that male embryos are initially female.
 
No, rareboy, human embryos do not start out as female. They begin with undifferentiated gonads and similar external genitalia for the first few weeks of development.
The presence or absence of the Y chromosome at conception determines whether an embryo will develop male sex characteristics, but that is already determined at the very moment of conception.

But of course you already knew that.
 
Worth sharing:

"In 1890, the X and Y chromosomes were discovered. It was found that the men who were tested had 46 chromosomes, including an X and a Y, while women who were tested also had 46 chromosomes, including 2 X chromosomes.
So obviously the conclusion was that the Y chromosome defined masculinity. A reasonable conclusion.
Fast forward 50 years... and it was found that some men had 47 chromosomes, including 2 X's and a Y, while some women had 45, including only one X. Still no problem with the "Y chromosome defines masculinity" idea.
Then... it was found that fully 1 in 300 men weren't 46,XY. Some women were.
Oops.
After DNA was discovered in the 50s, it was found that the SrY gene, usually found on the Y chromosome, sometimes was missing. And sometimes had been translocated to another chromosome, hence 46,XX men and 46,XY women. So SrY defined masculinity.
Then.. it was found out that some men didn’t have an SrY chromosome, not anywhere. Some women did. Other genes were involved. Worse, other factors, such as Androgen Insensitivity made 46,XY people female, and Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia masculinised 46,XX people.
Then in the 70s, other syndromes, such as 5alpha-reductase-2 deficiency were identified, which caused babies to look like one sex at birth, then the other at puberty. Worse, in some places 1 in 50 infants had this natural sex change, it was not rare there.
Science 1974 Dec 27; 186 (4170): 1213-5
In an isolated village of the southwestern Dominican Republic, 2% of the live births were in the 1970's, guevedoces....These children appeared to be girls at birth, but at puberty these 'girls' sprout muscles, testes, and a penis. For the rest of their lives they are men in nearly all respects.
In the 90s, it was found that hormonal hiccups in the womb caused some parts of the body to develop as one sex, othersbas the other, regardless of genetics.
Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041
The present findings of somatostatin neuronal sex differences in the BSTc and its sex reversal in the transsexual brain clearly support the paradigm that in transsexuals sexual differentiation of the brain and genitals may go into opposite directions
It's a matter of timing during foetal development. Sometimes a boy is born looking like a girl, sometimes a girl is born looking like a boy, regardless of chromosomes.
This is complex stuff. We don't teach the Theory of General Relativity in grade school, Newtonian physics or at most Special Relativity (far simpler) is enough. Similary, "XX is female, XY is male" is good enough unless you do medicine or biology in college.
It's only really relevant when talking about Trans or Intersex people, just as Relativistic effects only become relevant in the domain of the very big, very small, or very very fast, close to 186,000 miles a second.
People do *not* need psychiatric help when they think that things get heavier, more massive, as they go faster... while lengths contract. People do *not* need help when they think their sex is something different from their genetics.
Intersex people exist. Trans people exist. They are unusual, so trying to apply the usual approximations is as silly as trying to apply Newtonian physics to things moving close to or at light speed. Legislating such things is as insane as legally ruling that Pi=3... as has been done in the past.
I hope this helps explain."
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New guidance issued by Holyrood ministers says that facilities must be made available on the basis of biological sex, but that schools can also provide gender neutral toilets.

Having a hard time believing that schools and other facilities aren't providing at least one gender neutral toilet by now.

Pretty backward over in the UK, I guess.
 
LilBit said:
I know plenty of people who identify as gay and are attracted to transmen.
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Congratulations. I think that virtually everyone would accept that sexuality is a spectrum. The UK Supreme Court decision concerns sex/gender rather than sexuality and it decided that that's binary. There is only male and female and a trans man remains (in the UK at least) legally female.
 
unloadonme said:
Congratulations. I think that virtually everyone would accept that sexuality is a spectrum. The UK Supreme Court decision concerns sex/gender rather than sexuality and it decided that that's binary. There is only male and female and a trans man remains (in the UK at least) legally female.
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As the terven at Letl Women Speak events always say: "zero genders, two sexes, three sexualities and infinite personalities"
 
Every one of these decisions makes Britannia look more ridiculous.
 
unloadonme said:
The latest development is that the Labour Party has postponed its annual Women's Conference as a result of the Supreme Court ruling. According to the news report, previously "Labour had allowed people to self-identify as a woman, so trans women could attend the event and also take part in "positive action" measures such as all-women shortlists". It goes on to say a postponement was agreed upon "because the "only legally defensible alternative" would be to restrict attendance to biological women" and I'm guessing a large part of the party membership (those from Islington) would be unhappy with that.

www.bbc.co.uk

Labour postpones women's conference after Supreme Court ruling

The decision has been condemned by trans rights advocates and by gender critical activists.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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Having eventually cancelled its 2025 women's conference entirely, the Labour Party has decided that in 2026 attendance at the event will be limited to biological women. Trans women will be able to attend conference fringe events which are open to both sexes.

www.bbc.co.uk

Trans women will not be allowed to attend main Labour Women's Conference events

The conference will take place in 2026 after being cancelled for a year in light of the Supreme Court's gender ruling.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
Zeno Lorea said:
No, rareboy, human embryos do not start out as female. They begin with undifferentiated gonads and similar external genitalia for the first few weeks of development.
The presence or absence of the Y chromosome at conception determines whether an embryo will develop male sex characteristics, but that is already determined at the very moment of conception.

But of course you already knew that.
Click to expand...


Since rareboy failed to reply to us debunking his old wives' tale, here's a more in-depth explanation, though only 3 minutes long.

 
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