UK Woman Arrested for Racist Rant? Seriously?

[ChickenGuy]

LOL. This kid is something else.

My Tram Experience Response - MarmiteMan4 - YouTube

"DEEEAAAY 47!!!!"

"The HOUSEMATES are in the KITCHEN!!!!"

"CHANTELLE has been called to the DIARY ROOM!!!!"



(an obscure reference to a Geordie accent and a reality TV show. Mitchy might get the joke, but I doubt anyone else will)

As for the kid, I'm sure he's just regurgitating either talking points that he's read off the internet, or views that a member of his family has told him. Too few people these days form their own independent opinions of things.

As for his rhetoric, I'll disagree with what he says for the vast proportion of immigrants to this country, but I DO believe that a certain level of adherence to British values should be expected for people wanting to stay here. If a fringe minority insist on sticking to their extremist religious (usually Islamic) views then they should be kicked out AND REFUSED the right to appeal. LOL at Muslim fundamentalists who call for the KILLING of non-believers but are able to appeal to Europe because they feel THEIR human rights have been violated.

Another case in point - the recent 'honour killing' of a teenage girl BY HER OWN PARENTS because she DARED to embrace 'Westernised' culture.

I get very tired of it, and THAT is why some like the kid in the video take it to an unnecssary extreme with blanket condemnations. And as I've said before it is the abject FAILURE of successive governments to address the issue because of political correctness that have caused it to escalate to extreme views on BOTH the Nationalist and the Islamic sides.

But as I say I don't make that characterisation of ALL non-white Brits. Far from it. The majority are fine. But I think we need to be able to deal with the bad ones. Severely. And not be clumsily branded 'racist' and 'intolerant' when we do.

 

[Lostlover]

^^^ I agree with you. A country should be allowed to say who can and can't come. It seems like Britain though has been picking some losers (Islamists from Pakistan living in the UK come to mind. All the extremist Pakistanis living in the UK makes me wonder why they haven't put a moratorium on Pakistani immigration. I'm just going by what I've seen on the BBC. A Kiwi I know that lives in London said that he'd love to tar and feather some Pakistanis after tube bombings. And this is from a liberal guy).

The irony about this bloke's YouTube video is that he's on Google which was co-founded by someone from the "third-world population."

 

[Lostlover]

Broadshoulder: I don't know what your problem is with free speech. Whether it is saying that someone should be arrested for "racist" talk or threatening bodily harm on someone [me] that you disagree with, you should embrace free speech, fully. This is what separates us from dictatorships.

You're making it sound like the lady had an AK and was taking hostages. It isn't that serious. She was just running her mouth.

I'm not liking what I'm hearing.

(By the way, is threatening people against the CoC? Or did that threat against me go unnoticed?)

 

[Knucklehead]

Here's a link to her rant..I couldn't find it attached to the OP..



To me,she seems a bit intoxicated..In a way though,I can sort of understand how she might feel..She's one of a few native born English people on a train.Whether anyone will acknowledge it or not,it's not un-natural for life long residents of a particular area to resent new comers.They resent change. Everyone likes things near and familiar. When that's gone,some people carry on and learn about sushi or fried bananas.Others bitch and moan cause they can't find a decent pizzeria anymore.

When I lived in Brooklyn,it was all neighborhood people.Most people were only one or two generations removed from somebody that hopped off a boat.These days,not so much..Now it's filled to the brim with yuppie,hipster,and assorted web designer types.You can spend hours in a bar and run into only a few residents that are from within 500 miles of the place anymore.. Times change.

My Brooklyn is a memory.It'll never come back.I guess I'm cool with that.A part of me feels resentment though.But,what good does that do anyone? The ''new people'' have made it their own and are creating their own memories there and that's cool too. They deserve no less.

Just as the people on that train deserve the same respect..But,put yourself in her shoes for a minute.Not everybody embraces cultural diversity.She should have realized that not many strangers were interested in her thoughts about the changing face of Croyden.Did she think they would heed her advise and race back to whatever country they came from? Not likely,but she needed to vent.

Same here,I've been to neighborhoods where it is almost impossible to conduct business in English.Ehh,they get on my nerves,but they have a right to be here too..I just try and spend my money with people that can read it..

As for English Law,they seem to have a grip on things.We have our First Ammendment and all.So that means we have to be subjected to every psycho with an axe to grind.Over there,it seems to be understood by most people that those type of outbursts wont be tolerated.And I guess it wasn't..

My only thing with it though,is that it seems the government ends up holding all the cards.They get to decide what is unpleasant speech and conduct..Maybe they decide that protest disturbs things and crack down on that too.

I'd rather take my chances with the nuts.

 

[Knucklehead]

A Croyden take on things..

 

[Lostlover]

Here's a link to her rant..I couldn't find it attached to the OP..



To me,she seems a bit intoxicated..In a way though,I can sort of understand how she might feel..She's one of a few native born English people on a train.Whether anyone will acknowledge it or not,it's not un-natural for life long residents of a particular area to resent new comers.They resent change. Everyone likes things near and familiar. When that's gone,some people carry on and learn about sushi or fried bananas.Others bitch and moan cause they can't find a decent pizzeria anymore.

When I lived in Brooklyn,it was all neighborhood people.Most people were only one or two generations removed from somebody that hopped off a boat.These days,not so much..Now it's filled to the brim with yuppie,hipster,and assorted web designer types.You can spend hours in a bar and run into only a few residents that are from within 500 miles of the place anymore.. Times change.

My Brooklyn is a memory.It'll never come back.I guess I'm cool with that.A part of me feels resentment though.But,what good does that do anyone? The ''new people'' have made it their own and are creating their own memories there and that's cool too. They deserve no less.

Just as the people on that train deserve the same respect..But,put yourself in her shoes for a minute.Not everybody embraces cultural diversity.She should have realized that not many strangers were interested in her thoughts about the changing face of Croyden.Did she think they would heed her advise and race back to whatever country they came from? Not likely,but she needed to vent.

Same here,I've been to neighborhoods where it is almost impossible to conduct business in English.Ehh,they get on my nerves,but they have a right to be here too..I just try and spend my money with people that can read it..

As for English Law,they seem to have a grip on things.We have our First Ammendment and all.So that means we have to be subjected to every psycho with an axe to grind.Over there,it seems to be understood by most people that those type of outbursts wont be tolerated.And I guess it wasn't..

My only thing with it though,is that it seems the government ends up holding all the cards.They get to decide what is unpleasant speech and conduct..Maybe they decide that protest disturbs things and crack down on that too.

I'd rather take my chances with the nuts.

I agree. I'd take my chances with nuts. It's a slippery slope when you start categorizing acceptable and unacceptable views.

The woman might have a valid stance in regards to immigration, but she killed the debate with how she conducted herself. (It's not as if trams are a good place to vent, to begin with.)

By the way, just a correction to yours and Chicken's posts: you can be a white foreigner in the UK right? It seems to be that you guys were implying that a foreigner is a non-white person.

 

[broadshoulder]

Broadshoulder: I don't know what your problem is with free speech. Whether it is saying that someone should be arrested for "racist" talk or threatening bodily harm on someone [me] that you disagree with, you should embrace free speech, fully. This is what separates us from dictatorships.

You're making it sound like the lady had an AK and was taking hostages. It isn't that serious. She was just running her mouth.

I'm not liking what I'm hearing.

(By the way, is threatening people against the CoC? Or did that threat against me go unnoticed?)

No threat just a little dry humour. Or is taking the mick out of Americans against your constitution?

And since you have been trying to enflame this thread I think you got off very lightly. I have guessed what little agenda you have been pushing here...

 

[Just_Believe18]

Freedom of Speech means even protecting the insane ramblings of the bigots, racists, and homophobes. Once the government arrests and puts away the nuts of Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church, they'll move onto the next group of "profane dissidents." This lady said what she said. Leave her unhappy life be.

 

[Lostlover]

Have you watched the video? What she said was drenched with hate; when I was watching that vid, at certain moments, she looked like she was poised to strike someone. You can say what you'd like, so long as you aren't threatening other people's welfare.

Like threatening your child's welfare by inciting other people on the train to the point where it looked like one of the people was going to hit her.

I'm surprised her child hasn't been taken away. I guess creating a hostile, potentially dangerous environment for her child wasn't noticed.

It looks like another woman was jailed for "racist abuse." BBC News - Racist Tube rant woman Jacqueline Woodhouse jailed

I saw the whole video on YouTube. The people near her just laughed it off which is what they should have done with the lady in the OP. But, someone called her in to the police. (I personally can't imagine letting an unstable woman get under my skin. When she says that they don't belong there... is she right? It seems to me that they think she's right since someone called her in. I can't imagine the anger and hysteria if people didn't take her views as having some truth.)

 

[broadshoulder]

. When she says that they don't belong there... is she right? It seems to me that they think she's right since someone called her in. I can't imagine the anger and hysteria if people didn't take her views as having some truth.)

Ahhh now we come to your real agenda.

You actually agree with the vile stuff she says?

 

[Lostlover]

Ahhh now we come to your real agenda.

You actually agree with the vile stuff she says?

I don't condone her screed towards these people whether they're in the UK illegally or legally. (It's not for me to agree or disagree. I'm not a UK citizen. Because of this fact, my opinion means fuck all.) I think though that some of the people calling her in probably do agree on one level or another, however. It takes a lot to pick up a phone and report someone. One must feel really violated to follow through with the police and I can only imagine this happening if the person calling in actually feels there's truth to what she's saying.

I don't know how it is in the UK, but to become a citizen here isn't exactly easy. I can't imagine going through the immigration process, which can take years, and finally becoming a citizen only to let an obviously drunk woman say I don't belong in the country... I couldn't let that phase me.

 

[broadshoulder]

I don't condone her screed towards these people whether they're in the UK illegally or legally. (It's not for me to agree or disagree. I'm not a UK citizen. Because of this fact, my opinion means fuck all.) I think though that some of the people calling her in probably do agree on one level or another, however. It takes a lot to pick up a phone and report someone. One must feel really violated to follow through with the police and I can only imagine this happening if the person calling in actually feels there's truth to what she's saying.



I don't know how it is in the UK, but to become a citizen here isn't exactly easy. I can't imagine going through the immigration process, which can take years, and finally becoming a citizen only to let an obviously drunk woman say I don't belong in the country... I couldn't let that phase me.

Well, if you look most people are ignoring her or "not letting her phase them". But she ramps up the abuse. Remember these people cant escape and also remember but the majority were born British. She lumps everyone together in her racist abuse/ It must have been a horrible experience for them. They are cleverly filmed it. Whether humiliating her on Youtube was there original idea?

Shes also got form. Shes done it before. That may be why she was prosecuted.

 

[Lostlover]

Well, if you look most people are ignoring her or "not letting her phase them". But she ramps up the abuse. Remember these people cant escape and also remember but the majority were born British. She lumps everyone together in her racist abuse/ It must have been a horrible experience for them. They are cleverly filmed it. Whether humiliating her on Youtube was there original idea?

Shes also got form. Shes done it before. That may be why she was prosecuted.

Escape from what? Does she have an AK-47 under her jacket? Is she taking hostages?

I think this might be a language thing. "Escape" here means to flee [from danger]. I guess "escape" in the UK means to get up and move seats?

(I'm not being condescending or sarcastic. The BBC uses the word "abuse" and Americans aren't exactly used to hearing the word "abuse" used in this context. This might be a language issue between us.)

 

[bankside]

Freedom of speech, of the kind people fought and died to establish over the last 800 years, is the right to criticise those in government and those with power, where the only reprisal is reply. It is not a general right to act boorishly, to be a poor neighbour, or to pick on people. Free speech doesn't mean "all the world's ideas are equally worthy." And even if there were such a right, it is balanced against the right of other people to ride the train in peace. My right to peace and quiet on the train totally overrules her right to spew shit.

 

[bankside]

I mean this isn't even a "free speech" case. This is an "appalling behaviour and poor manners in public" case. As a passenger minding my own business I shouldn't have to switch seats or put up with it. If taking someone to jail is necessary for me to have peace and quiet, so be it. You might convince me that the sentence is too stiff, but the principle behind it is sound. Both testicles have descended, and they're nestled comfortably in the seat of my choice with no plans to move, when it is far easier to just have her put off the train or thrown in jail or something like that.

 

[Lostlover]

This is absurd. It has nothing at all to do with truth or lack of it, in what she is saying. It is about the offense, pure and simple, of exposing people to hate. Some people, maybe even most, would choose just to ignore the rants. But, if such rants cause distress to someone, creating insecurity, it is appropriate that they have a means of which to address the issue. Ignoring something DOES NOT make it go away, if anything, it makes things worse. Its better that people do have a way of making it known that certain behaviour is unacceptable, and that they will have to answer for their misconduct. It can be done here by making hate speech exempt from freedom of speech laws.
The alternative, to allow people to say whatever they like, however offensive, doesn't protect freedom of speech ANY MORE than in countries that do make hate speech exempt.

Why anybody feels that there poses a threat to a freedom, by exempting uncivilised behaviour from the protection of that freedom, is beyond me.

There will always be speech that people find offensive. So, you'll never stomp out hateful speech.

Today, you start out by saying that we should not tolerate racist and homophobic speech in society. Once that has been outlawed, you realize that people can still ridicule the monarchy. Next, anti-monarchy speech is deemed unlawful. When will censorship end?

I'd like to tell you that hate speech actually helps society become more tolerant. People see these people, like the Phelps and Rush Limbaugh, as a cancer to society. They're the biggest disservice to their own cause.

If you let them talk, they shoot themselves in the foot and hurt their "cause" without ever having to enact draconian laws.

 

[Jack Springer]

She probably picked the wrong place to say what she said. Evidently she no longer has a right to do so in the UK -- I'm glad we still do here in the USA.

Sounded a little high or drunk -- the kid on her lap seemed to be accustomed to her yelling.

It also bothers me that there are "youtube spys" out there recording conversations and then the police is charging the person based on those youtube vids.

Seems a little 1984 to me.

 

[Lostlover]

Youtube spies lol. Like they sit there waiting for this shit to happen, no. This was 21st century technology being used perfectly to obtain proof of bad behavior.

Oh, and she quite clearly does have the right to say what she likes, like anybody can stop anybody else from having that right, we don't cut off people's tongues for this crap you know, we just have consequences. Consequences that serve to teach lessons, not hope that other people will just behave better in future. If there are no consequences to spewing a hateful rant, you can't hope for it not to happen again, and again, and again, and again. The more the message (rants) are heard, the more effect it has on impressionable minds. That leads to yet more hate in the future, or conversely, to more angst. In either case, that can lead to even more negative consequences, murder, or suicide.

That "YouTube spies" and 1984 comments got a laugh from me too.

Much respect for you Mitchymo. I think you and I will just agree to disagree.