Under Regean, the US went from largest creditor to largest debtor

[Lostlover]

How did this legacy not follow him?

Reagan was a disaster for the American economy in at least four fundamental ways:

Debtor Nation Status: Under Ronald Reagan, the US went from being the world's largest creditor nation to the largest debtor nation in just a few years - and we have remained the largest debtor nation ever since.

[Quote truncated by moderator] Aljazeera Terms and Conditions

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/07/2011771074476381.html

The extremely bad news is that he clocked out on us with all this debt. This is like a middle finger from the grave.

I've stated my solution to this problem before. Add a 15% tax hike to the estates of dead people. They might not want to pay for Medicare and Social Security while they're alive, but they'll get a bill eventually. No more sneaking out the bathroom window as the waiter leaves the bill for meal.

 

[jackoroe]

You can't spell Reagan correctly and your using Al Jizz Eera as a source. You aren't serious, right?

 

[Críostóir]

Well, jackoroe, the fact is that the national debt TRIPLED during Reagan's eight years in the White House.

Think about that. It means his "fiscally conservative" (HA!) administration ran up twice as much debt in eight years as the country had in over 200 years of its existence prior to that time.

Reagan set in motion the process that Republicans in the House seem to want to complete: the utter ruin of the US economy. His crackpot "Star Wars" initiative was a complete waste of money. All it did was shovel tax dollars into the hands of corporations...much like the Iraq war, another ridiculous whim of a Republican president, though this time a personal vendetta rather than a crackpot scheme.

I think they had a common intent, however: give their rich friends as much of the American people's money as they possibly could, even borrowing massively to do so.

If there's a hell, Reagan is burning in it.

 

[Lostlover]

You can't spell Reagan correctly and your using Al Jizz Eera as a source. You aren't serious, right?

You didn't spell "you're" correctly, so your response isn't serious...

How would you react if Obama tripled the national debt to 45 TRILLION DOLLARS, something akin to what Reagan did when he tripled the debt under his watch?

Any comments on Reagan running up the debt while cutting taxes? And, 30 years later, his party has taken up this cause rather disingenuously?

 

[MoltenRock III]

How did this legacy not follow him?

Because at the time the Republicans baffled the American public with bullshit as per usual. They said, it didn't matter. They said, it only showed how deep and open the USA markets were and it should be encouraged since foreigners showed confidence by investing here. They said it was a short term situation as the economy "reinvented" itself in the 80s. The list goes on and on.

Massive spending on the military was required because those evil Soviets were out to destroy the US, and our way of life. Nearly 100% of all villains in movies were Russians back in the 80s. (Now they are brown colored "terrorists".)

 

[CowboyBob]

You're doubting Ronald Reagan? Blasphemer!!


Reagan did indeed triple the debt. He was another one of those "borrow and spend" Republicans. Iran-Contra, remember that? James Watt. Pardoned Caspar Weinberger. Oliver North. Savings and Loan crisis, (there was a Bush that was in on that also) lobbying scandal, Department of housing and urban development scandal, it goes on and on. Nancy and her astrologer. Sheesh!

Exactly what did Reagan do that earned him the title of messiah anyway? His legend is much bigger than his presidency ever was. His reign was riddled with scandal.

 

[MoltenRock III]

Reagan's tax "simplification" program is one of the main causes of the S&L "Crisis". Amusingly enough, after that "crisis" the American people were assured a banking failure / fraudulent "crisis" wouldn't be repeated again..... well.... we know how that turned out.

 

[Kulindahr]

Anyone know much about the author of that article?

 

[JB3]

Well, jackoroe, the fact is that the national debt TRIPLED during Reagan's eight years in the White House.

Think about that. It means his "fiscally conservative" (HA!) administration ran up twice as much debt in eight years as the country had in over 200 years of its existence prior to that time.

Reagan set in motion the process that Republicans in the House seem to want to complete: the utter ruin of the US economy. His crackpot "Star Wars" initiative was a complete waste of money. All it did was shovel tax dollars into the hands of corporations...much like the Iraq war, another ridiculous whim of a Republican president, though this time a personal vendetta rather than a crackpot scheme.

I think they had a common intent, however: give their rich friends as much of the American people's money as they possibly could, even borrowing massively to do so.

If there's a hell, Reagan is burning in it.

The debt tripled because of the cold war. You've heard of that right? The single biggest arms build up in all of recorded history, and it was all paid for with debt.

Of course, most of our modern technology resulted from it, but people like you like to sweep that little nugget under the rug and spit out venom instead.

 

[MoltenRock III]

Of course, most of our modern technology resulted from it, but people like you like to sweep that little nugget under the rug and spit out venom instead.

Link?

 

[JB3]

Link?

Space race. The computer you're typing your responses on? A result of that.

Advanced aerospace technology? (including the plane that you take to Singapore) Cold war.

The list goes on and on and on.

The organization responsible was DARPA.

Oh, and you can also thank the Cold War for the internet; it is one of DARPA's most famous, and successful, projects.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA

 

[Kulindahr]

The debt tripled because of the cold war. You've heard of that right? The single biggest arms build up in all of recorded history, and it was all paid for with debt.

Of course, most of our modern technology resulted from it, but people like you like to sweep that little nugget under the rug and spit out venom instead.

Um... not.

You should look into how much technology the military acquired from such areas as entertainment and communications, things that weren't cold-war driven at all.

One example: simulators. The Pentagon went to Hollywood to learn how to do training simulators.

 

[Kulindahr]

Space race. The computer you're typing your responses on? A result of that.

Initially, a lot of computer development was military. But even by the late 80s, something else was driving it:

games.

And then the military started learning computers from the private sector.

 

[JB3]

Um... not.

You should look into how much technology the military acquired from such areas as entertainment and communications, things that weren't cold-war driven at all.

One example: simulators. The Pentagon went to Hollywood to learn how to do training simulators.

Go read about DARPA. They contributed more to the technology we enjoy than anything else. And they existed solely because of the Cold War.

Oh and that technology you're citing that was 'acquired' from private industry was actually PAID for with money from DARPA and the US government. If you think private industry came up with all of those things on their own, you're sorely mistaken. (the military 'hid' a lot of their investments and inventions in those of private companies so as not to arouse Soviet suspicions)

 

[JB3]

Initially, a lot of computer development was military. But even by the late 80s, something else was driving it:

games.

And then the military started learning computers from the private sector.

Erm. No that's not really accurate. If you look at the history of computing, the major driving force for the biggest advances in computing was almost always the military. The period in which consumers have been the driving factor is relatively small by comparison.

Even when computers did start to branch out into the consumer markets, it wasn't until the 90s until the focus became on at home users instead of business users. Games weren't even a factor in computer development, because the systems themselves were far too expensive for any at home user to purchase.

 

[Kulindahr]

Erm. No that's not really accurate. If you look at the history of computing, the major driving force for the biggest advances in computing was almost always the military. The period in which consumers have been the driving factor is relatively small by comparison.

Even when computers did start to branch out into the consumer markets, it wasn't until the 90s until the focus became on at home users instead of business users. Games weren't even a factor in computer development, because the systems themselves were far too expensive for any at home user to purchase.

What the heck alternate universe are you from???

By the late 80s, gobs of people had their own computers, and games were proliferating. Then when screens became more than monochrome, it went crazy. The MacIntosh was already around, and Apple IIs were all over. The Amiga had games written just for it. Computer manufacturers were fighting for the home market in the mid and even early 80s., and CPU designers were aiming at satisfying the demands for speed and sound from people at home and school.

By the 90s, the difference between home and business computers had disappeared -- they were the same.

The military was actually caught off guard, still focusing on super-computers while the capabilities of desktops caught up.

 

[JB3]

What the heck alternate universe are you from???

By the late 80s, gobs of people had their own computers, and games were proliferating. Then when screens became more than monochrome, it went crazy. The MacIntosh was already around, and Apple IIs were all over. The Amiga had games written just for it. Computer manufacturers were fighting for the home market in the mid and even early 80s., and CPU designers were aiming at satisfying the demands for speed and sound from people at home and school.

Kulindahr, do you really not understand that those things you mention didn't just appear overnight? They were all the result of a massive influx of spending and brain-power from government-controlled organizations like DARPA. You're looking at the sideshow; what was actually happening was being driven entirely by the military's desire for more diverse systems that were smaller and more portable.

By the 90s, the difference between home and business computers had disappeared -- they were the same.

The military was actually caught off guard, still focusing on super-computers while the capabilities of desktops caught up.

By the 90s, yes. When did the Cold war end again? The military wasn't caught off-guard at all, because THEY were the strongest force behind the shrinking size of systems. That, and desktops didn't 'catch up' until recently. The military used supercomputers because nothing else could match their speed and power. They wanted smaller systems, though, for things like their advanced avionics, and nuclear subs.

I really think you're underestimating the role something like the Cold War had on technology.

 

[Kulindahr]

Kulindahr, do you really not understand that those things you mention didn't just appear overnight? They were all the result of a massive influx of spending and brain-power from government-controlled organizations like DARPA. You're looking at the sideshow; what was actually happening was being driven entirely by the military's desire for more diverse systems that were smaller and more portable.



By the 90s, yes. When did the Cold war end again? The military wasn't caught off-guard at all, because THEY were the strongest force behind the shrinking size of systems. That, and desktops didn't 'catch up' until recently. The military used supercomputers because nothing else could match their speed and power. They wanted smaller systems, though, for things like their advanced avionics, and nuclear subs.

I really think you're underestimating the role something like the Cold War had on technology.

You're claiming that the government set up Steve Jobs? that the Commodore, and all the other competitors were government-pushed?

 

[JB3]

You're just clouding the issue here. The topic was Reagan tripling the national debt.

How did that happen? He lowered taxes and greatly increased spending. Doesn't matter why. Why don't you try that at home and let me know how it works out - cut your income and increase your spending.

Then Bush Jr. made it way worse, with the first wars in the history of our country that were unfunded. All borrowed money. Even his father had the common sense to raise taxes to pay for the first war in Iraq.

The causes matter. The debt would have tripled regardless of who was president and regardless of the tax rate.

 

[Críostóir]

The causes matter. The debt would have tripled regardless of who was president and regardless of the tax rate.

If you believe that, I think you weren't there. Reagan spent billions on a crackpot scheme called SDI ("Star Wars"), which never worked. And debts don't go up as far with higher tax rates, obviously.

This isn't magic. He spent more on his wars and hobbies than he was willing to take in in revenue. Ergo, debt goes up. He did that more than any POTUS before or since.

Any proponent of "fiscal responsibility" must regard Reagan as a villain, if they're to be consistent.