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underage drinking..

Don't read this if you don't want to hear me ranting about alcohol.

My thoughts on alcohol are this: Wouldn't the world, ultimately, be a happier place if alcohol didn't exist. Its existence (along with the existence of many other things, I imagine) is wholly unnecessary, at least in terms of being something drinkable. I can think of no reason whatsoever that would make someone require alcohol. There is no reason for anyone to "need" alcohol - any "positive" effects alcohol provides can be achieved through healthier, more legal methods. People always say that drinking a glass of wine a day (or whatever) is good for you, but I'm sure drinking no wine a day is even better. I don't know, I guess I kind of just get sick of people not examining the reason why they drink. If you ask someone why they drink, most often I get a response like "I don't know, just cause" or "for something to do" or "to have a good time". If you need to drink (or be drunk) to have a good time, doesn't that imply a deeper problem? And just because something is available doesn't mean you should partake in it, either! If someone says stress is a reason for their drinking, than they should examine their life and see what is causing that stress, and work to eliminate that stress, not subdue it with alcohol. All alcohol does is treat the symptoms (of our problems?) and ignores the causes of those problems, and in the end, that does absolutely nothing beneficial for anyone. Like I said before, the world would be a happier place without alcohol.
 
pacz said:
If a person can die for his country at the age of 18, s/he should have the right to have a drink.
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I was about to say the same thing pacz, but the U.S. is different than other countries...I agree wholeheartedly with what you said, but alcohol ultimately rests on the drinker - if he/she can handle it, then it COULD be ok...if not, then they shouldn't be drinking...

Easier said than done in most cases!!
 
I've been drinking since I was about 12/13.. So 5/6 years whilst underage.
Been getting into bars and clubs since I was about 16.
IDEAL :D ..|
Cant complain.
DRINK UP!!
 
vetteboi said:
I bet you never speed in your car! Let's face it, they set speed limits artificially low knowing that people are going to speed. When the majority of people speed in a particular location, there is something wrong with the limit. Laws should fit society, not unjustly restrict it.
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Actually, hardly a Liberal position, actually a very Libertarian position.

Laws are invalid when they either unduly violate the Ninth Amendment, are ignored (effectively repealed), are scientifically invalid or are outdated.

The 21 limit violates all four of those, speeding laws violate three of those (they are ignored, there's really no difference in smashing into a barricade at 60 or 65 mph, and date from a time when fuel economy was proffered as the reason behind the madness), sodomy laws violate all four, and so forth.

It is therefore a good thing to circumvent those laws whenever possible.:sex: Yay!
 
In Australia the legal drinking age is 18.

The blood alcohol limit is 0.05.

If you are a P plate driver (only hold a Provisional Licence - ie have not yet sufficient unpenalised driving experience to have a full licence), the blood alcohol limit is ZERO. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to stop a good deal of accidents.

When I was under 18 (quite a lot of years ago now :p) I started going to the Pub regularly when I was 15.

However - there is a substantial difference between then and now.

Then: - I didn't have much money (nor did most of my friends). Hence we tended to go and quietly sit on a couple of small beers, and maybe play a game of darts or bar billiards (hehe - can anyone guess in which part of the world I was at that age?). The Publican could well have had an idea that we were "underage" - but we were responsible, created no trouble (and it kept us off the streets) so nothing was ever said.

Now: - Kids (courtesy of their parents?) seem to have inordinately large disposable incomes. They also seem far more prone to drink to excess and make idiots of themselves - and they quite likely have a vehicle as well. (Note - I am not saying that ALL young people these days are irresponsible drunks - but there is a far greater chance that they could be if they wanted - and there are enough that do to make alarming accident stats).

We all tend to think we know everything (well, most things) and feel we are pretty much indestructible in our late teens (I certainly did!) Unfortunately, as even I learnt with...errrm..."maturity" - that just ain't the case.

So where am I going with this ramble? OK - well, 21 is ridiculous as a drinking age (hell - if they can't drink, they'll probably do something else!).

18 probably is sensible IMO - but, these days, only if it is coupled with pretty strict enforcement and tight driving regs.

Oh - and just FYI - I still recall when my closest buddy was asked to show ID at a bar we had been going to for about 2 years. We all burst out laughing - because we were there celebrating his 18th (ie "legal to drink) birthday.

As for me - I actually did get asked my age once. I had to wait until I was in the USA (and more than 6 years over the legal age there:rolleyes:) and buying a 6pack of 3.2 beer in a supermarket. I also burst out laughing - but, to be fair, it probably happened because the guy behind me in the checkout line was a cop.:badgrin:

hehe - memories...
 
I think 18 is a reasonable legal age for being able to go to bars and to buy alcohol. I do not have any problem with kids, teenagers etc drinking at home with their parents. I know quite a few families (mostly from Mediterranean Europe) who share wine with their kids. From what I have seen, this practice seems to promote responsible drinking.

The major problem with underage drinking in Australia is "binge drinking" and this phenomenon seems to be as prevalent in the female teenage group as it does in the male teenage group. The aim appears to be to drink as much booze as you can in as little time as possible and get as drunk as you can. Badges are awarded for throwing up, passing out and making an absolute ass of yourself. Inhibitions are thrown out the window, often along with bras and knickers.

In Oz, we have just had "schoolies", a 2 week grogfest for those year 12 students who have just finished their secondary schooling. Most of the 30,000 or so who were at Queensland Gold Coast were 17 or 18. We were presented nightly with ugly TV images of juvenile drunks, particularly females. The sad thing was that because many of the schoolies were too young to buy alcohol, the booze was supplied by the parents. What we saw was binge drinking at its worst.

Cars crash, reputations are lost and people die but the Bacardi and coke was nice.

I don't want to bore you with the social, educational, employment, psychological, family and health problems associated with binge drinking and other alcohol abuse amongst underaged teenagers but these problems are very real. Alcohol dependence in the 13 to 17 age group is on the increase in Oz, and some of us are having a hell of a problem putting some of these broken lives back together.

There are even suggestions now that alcohol abuse (and its after effects) amongst teenagers has lead to depression and self harm.

I understand the question about "underage drinking" in the US. In most countries, to drink aged 18, 19 or 20 is not underage, and the US is out of step. However, I suspect that the under legal age drink problems (13 to 17 yo) we have in Australia are not restricted to Oz.

PS I do not touch alcohol myself but I have no objection to people who choose to drink, provided they do it responsibly. And whilst people may have the right to drink, I also have the right to be able to drive and return to my home each night, alive and in one piece.
 
I used to drink all the time when I was underage.... probably every weekend... but once I turned 18 and finished school I stopped. Now I am lucky to drink something with alcohol in it three times a year.

I think 18 is a good age to legally be allowed to buy it and all that.
 
Theyoungman said:
You sound a very liberal to me... Thats fine, but too much liberty is a bad thing. (If you dissagree on that second sentence, then you need to study peoples behaviors a little more)

Do you know why people speed? Because no one is there to enforce the law and teach them the lessons they need to learn...

Here where I live everybody speeds over the limit on the highways and the cops don't do anything, but you know what. I hardly ever see cops on the high way...

If no ones is there to stop them, then they will take it for their advantage...
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LMAO - no one has ever called me liberal before. This position is really libertarian or conservative. It certainly is not liberal.

Of course you missed the entire point of my comment on speed limits. Limits are established as they are supposed to be the maximum safe speed to travel on a road. The fact that the majority of Americans speed indicates that they don't believe the speed limit is truly the maximum safe speed to travel. The anecdotal evidence shows that the speed limit isn't really the maximum safe speed or we would have an astronomical accident rate. Yes, if everyone drove 5 mph at all times at accident rate would be extremely small, but accidents would still occur. Of course if will all drove 5 mph our GNP would about the same as it was 200 years ago and very few could afford a car. The point being, if the majority of people believed in the speed limit, there wouldn't be very many speeders. Most people believe that armed robbery is wrong, therefore most people don't do it. There are always a few who ignore the law, but when the majority ignores a law there is something wrong with the law.

With regard to drinking, it's nice that you think all drinking is bad. I'm glad you know far more than the American Medical Association and the highly trained medical and research professionals around the world who have researched the subject.
 
hard-candy said:
^^^ drinking 1 glass of red wine a day is really good for your heart.
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That's basically exactly what I mean - "they" claim drinking wine is good for your heart - but there are other, better (i.e. healthier) ways of improving your heart, like exercise. Exercise doesn't affect your mental capacities, exercise won't cloud your judgement, exercise won't kill you. Alcohol can and does do those things. Exercise also doesn't fill your body with potentially harmful chemicals, either. But, again, these are just my opinions, and I'm not trying to change anyones habits/beliefs so take from it what you will. :-({|=

Did I mention I'm a manager at a liquor store?
 
Gay Angel said:
That's basically exactly what I mean - "they" claim drinking wine is good for your heart - but there are other, better (i.e. healthier) ways of improving your heart, like exercise. Exercise doesn't affect your mental capacities, exercise won't cloud your judgement, exercise won't kill you. Alcohol can and does do those things. Exercise also doesn't fill your body with potentially harmful chemicals, either. But, again, these are just my opinions, and I'm not trying to change anyones habits/beliefs so take from it what you will. :-({|=

Did I mention I'm a manager at a liquor store?
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So what damage does your choice of font colour do to our eyes, Mr Liquor Store manager?
 
I haven't bothered to read the whole of this thread, but I'm stunned and amazed at the somewhat ludicrous notion of a legal dinking age of 21! Do many people actually take any notice of it?

Having a 'legal age' for anything set much higher than 16-18 seems pretty ridiculous to me.
 
I don't blame MADD or anyone for the US drinking age being 21. I blame that on the horrendous number of teen age alcohol related deaths and dismemberments. As a chaplian at UM hospital, besides the guys who came in dead from drunken drinking and the guys who came in without limbs from drunken driving, we also had the drunk while swimming category - healthy boys with broken necks who dove too shallowly while drunk.

The physiological evidence is that the brain is really ready to handle alcohol until around 21. Bfore I knew that, I reluctantly voted for Michigan raising its age to 21 becuase I had done too many funerals for drunk and now dead teenagers.

Yeah, yah, I drank some before 21, and a lot of people do. I don't recall anything good coming from any of that drinking, before 21, or since. I recall some things I wish never had happened.

For the argument that if you are old enough to die (i.e., serve in the military) then I would agree to lower the age of drinking for those in the military service,a nd only those.

Having worked with families in social service agencies and church agencies all these years when I was not working in a law office, I have never seen any good com from teen age driving.

I could tell many stories about dead teenagers killed in auto accidents, or those who survived only to live wracked by guilt and nd up dead a fw months later - but those stories mean nothing.

But the simple truth is this: most adults do not always have the judgment to drink responsibly. Teenagers never have the type of experience and judgment to drink responsibly.

That some survive, even more than do not, does not make up for all those who don't, and the families and friends they leave behind.
 
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