USA intervening in another civil war , 100 combat-equipped U.S. forces to Uganda

[jackoroe]

So, this is the seventh war we are now involved in. Wonderful.

I was curious to find how many countries we actually have troops in. The answer, quite surprisingly, is 130 countries.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/global-deployments.htm

Let the Germans, Japanese, Italians and Koreans fend for themselves. Bring them home and save hundreds of billions!

 

[maxpowr9]

Let the Germans, Japanese, Italians and Koreans fend for themselves. Bring them home and save hundreds of billions!

As long as Republicans continue to profit off war, I don't see that happening.

 

[Kulindahr]

So, this is the seventh war we are now involved in. Wonderful.

I was curious to find how many countries we actually have troops in. The answer, quite surprisingly, is 130 countries.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/global-deployments.htm

Let the Germans, Japanese, Italians and Koreans fend for themselves. Bring them home and save hundreds of billions!

The real shocker is just how many bases we have in some of those countries.

There are 61 U.S. Army installation in Germany; 13 are scheduled for closure in the next four years. If it were up to me, they'd just keep closing them until we had three: one for regular infantry, one for armor, and one for airborne and special forces.

There's a Marine base in Germany; let them share an Army one -- or better, just leave, since there's no Navy base.

The Air Force has four; I'd say they can cut it to two -- I once picked out which should stay; I recall Ramstein as one.


That's a total of sixty-four bases. We could cut it to five.

 

[jackoroe]

As long as Republicans continue to profit off war, I don't see that happening.

That's the kind of short sighted view that allows the insanity of continue unabated. It's the military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about that benefits. They in turn funnel money into both parties who then insure the money continues to flow. It's money laundering plain and simple.

 

[kallipolis]

The real shocker is just how many bases we have in some of those countries.

There are 61 U.S. Army installation in Germany; 13 are scheduled for closure in the next four years. If it were up to me, they'd just keep closing them until we had three: one for regular infantry, one for armor, and one for airborne and special forces.

There's a Marine base in Germany; let them share an Army one -- or better, just leave, since there's no Navy base.

The Air Force has four; I'd say they can cut it to two -- I once picked out which should stay; I recall Ramstein as one.


That's a total of sixty-four bases. We could cut it to five.

Worthy observation.

I do not foresee the Russians invading Germany. Not, just yet.

 

[palbert]

From a little acorn a tree grows.

These "assistances" are without end. Didn't we send "advisers" to Viet Nam?

True, what the LRA is doing is atrocious but that continent has been rife with the same thing for centuries, probably since a large number of people left to go look for Oz. And when we stop bombing everything in sight and leave it will revert to normative.

Declare "Victory," let the Marines have another whatever they call it at Silent Drill -no popcorn or drinks allowed, get out and move on.

We have things to do here.

 

[palbert]

... If you actually finished reading the article, you will note that the US has already been helping Uganda and three other African nations counter the LRA for years (yes, even during the Bush Administration). ....

I do not think I would use our inability to achieve our goals, whatever they may be, over the past years as a logical justification for militarily - and yes it is that - intervening now. I would use it rather as a metric of our ineffectiveness.

This is an uncivil civil war. But it is not our civil war, unless we make it so. Which we appear to want to do.

(And I don't give a damn which side in that civil war is right so stop right there with the rent heart.)

 

[JayHawk]

Amusing commentaries but you all well know that pulling back IS NOT going to happen.

If Barack Obama attained office and then continued the same policies and then you go back and look at his Pre-Presidential statements and opinions. I submit there is no left wing peacenik who will review this countries options and choose to put their head in the sand.

On the other hand Kuli you do have a point in Germany. Not so much in Japan and South Korea. Italy is damn near empty. We moved that operation to Diego Garcia.

SO I guess I judged you folks incorrectly. We should not be bringing food, medical support and assistance to any other country? Let em fuckin rot right? Good call that really demonstrates the American spirit I am used to seeing. Next thing you know all of you will be clapping at the imminent death of a uninsured person.

 

[palbert]

Good but not quite intimidating ad hominem.

If I put my head in the sand it will at least be my sand. And it will be my head and not the body of a soldier I countenanced sending to fight a war without end. If we need send the military to distribute food we should rethink our mission.

Your bait of worthy humanitarianism - the "rent heart" of my post - won't catch this fish (a coelecanth I may be). Why is it this country feels a need to feed, etc., the world - makes someone all warm and fuzzy - but ignore our own citizens? That you would have us do that is reprehensible and self-serving, a "goody two shoes" type of argument that plays better on a real stage than it does in real life.

 

[palbert]

Concerning the needs at home of current interest is:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/more-americans-chinese-t-put-food-table-132752601.html

("More Americans than Chinese Can't Put Food on the Table.)

 

[JayHawk]

Good but not quite intimidating ad hominem.

If I put my head in the sand it will at least be my sand. And it will be my head and not the body of a soldier I countenanced sending to fight a war without end. If we need send the military to distribute food we should rethink our mission.

Your bait of worthy humanitarianism - the "rent heart" of my post - won't catch this fish (a coelecanth I may be). Why is it this country feels a need to feed, etc., the world - makes someone all warm and fuzzy - but ignore our own citizens? That you would have us do that is reprehensible and self-serving, a "goody two shoes" type of argument that plays better on a real stage than it does in real life.

It is not an Ad hominem and certainly isnt the goody two shoes argument. We achieve strategic positioning and develope a dialog with these new governments.

I find it beyhond amusing that snooty western fuckwads deem the other countries beneath them because they have felt success. SO since you are successful and other regimes have brutal activities currently we should shun them all and just stay in the United STates? Really? Take a look at ANY western nations background and you will find brutality and shame. If these other countries are to become stable they will go thru the same growth.

Your argument that we have things to do here is also quite empty. What is the problem of the US currently? If you had to round it out in a few words?

The problem is lack of employment. You can throw out all the revolutionary bullshit that people have been talkin about on this board every since OWS came about. Give employment and all of these idiots will go away except for the anarchist students who have picketed capitalism.

SO with the brain trust plan on here we need to de-fund the military and bring them home. SO 9% reported and 16% isnt good enough unemployment?

No the diplomatic ties we make when we help people, the strategic positions we earn and the overall maintenance of a capable overseas force is not going away. In fact it is going to get more and more prolific, on a smaller scale and non permanent basis but expand it will.

The argument that stopping that activity will somehow benefit the people here is ignorant at the least and treasonous if said with any knowledge.

 

[jackoroe]

Amusing commentaries but you all well know that pulling back IS NOT going to happen.

If Barack Obama attained office and then continued the same policies and then you go back and look at his Pre-Presidential statements and opinions. I submit there is no left wing peacenik who will review this countries options and choose to put their head in the sand.

On the other hand Kuli you do have a point in Germany. Not so much in Japan and South Korea. Italy is damn near empty. We moved that operation to Diego Garcia.

SO I guess I judged you folks incorrectly. We should not be bringing food, medical support and assistance to any other country? Let em fuckin rot right? Good call that really demonstrates the American spirit I am used to seeing. Next thing you know all of you will be clapping at the imminent death of a uninsured person.

With all due respect, isn't it the job of the US military to kill people and break things? I think bringing food and medical support to other places is certainly a noble gesture. But we aren't in a position to continue to do so on the scale we have been over the years.

This is actually something the UN does fairly well (as opposed to peacekeeping which they truly suck at) so let them carry the ball. And let our friends the Chinese start to pony up to pay for some of this. Americans are and will continue to be, the most generous people on earth. But it's time for the international free loaders to get some skin in the game. Just my opinion.

 

[Kulindahr]

From a little acorn a tree grows.

These "assistances" are without end. Didn't we send "advisers" to Viet Nam?

One difference: the advisers in Vietnam went out to battle with the troops they were advising. The danger line isn't sending advisers, it's deliberately sending them into combat.

 

[Kulindahr]

We achieve strategic positioning and develope a dialog with these new governments.

I find it beyhond amusing that snooty western fuckwads deem the other countries beneath them because they have felt success. SO since you are successful and other regimes have brutal activities currently we should shun them all and just stay in the United STates? Really? Take a look at ANY western nations background and you will find brutality and shame. If these other countries are to become stable they will go thru the same growth.

Probably so. Of course the flaw in this is the notion that we can speed the process along and lift any of them straight to an appreciation of human rights and a use of some form of democracy. So long as we stay in the background, teaching not just military skills but better values, we're fine.

The problem is lack of employment. You can throw out all the revolutionary bullshit that people have been talkin about on this board every since OWS came about. Give employment and all of these idiots will go away except for the anarchist students who have picketed capitalism.

SO with the brain trust plan on here we need to de-fund the military and bring them home. SO 9% reported and 16% isnt good enough unemployment?

Who's talking about more unemployment????

 

[palbert]

One difference: the advisers in Vietnam went out to battle with the troops they were advising. The danger line isn't sending advisers, it's deliberately sending them into combat.

Just wait and see how long we go without "kinetic military action." This is payback because they proxied for us in Somalia.

@JayHawk: I do not suffer a messiah complex so probably am burdensomely ignorant and a "treasoner."

I am not pulling up the drawbridge on the rest of the world. I just have most of our troops on it coming home rather than going to deliver food and "the white man's message for societal progress" - a wee bit of arrogance that - while holding a gun and calling in drone strikes.

May be if we stopped meddling in every one's else business they would be better off and we could attend to our problems, which you dismiss (other than employment).

 

[CowboyBob]

Why are you whining about a hundred soldiers in Uganda?

The USA has soldiers in many countries where we don't need to be: Germany and South Korea to name a couple.

Is it because this is a black African country where this is suddenly becoming an issue?

UPDATE:

We have soldiers in Italy, Greece, Japan, Brazil, Bulgaria, Netherlands.... shall we start threads about those countries also?

 

[JayHawk]

With all due respect, isn't it the job of the US military to kill people and break things? I think bringing food and medical support to other places is certainly a noble gesture. But we aren't in a position to continue to do so on the scale we have been over the years.

This is actually something the UN does fairly well (as opposed to peacekeeping which they truly suck at) so let them carry the ball. And let our friends the Chinese start to pony up to pay for some of this. Americans are and will continue to be, the most generous people on earth. But it's time for the international free loaders to get some skin in the game. Just my opinion.

I wont argue that other nations ought to do this sort of thing BUT you aim at CHina? It is a third world nation just emerging into properity. They still have a shit ton of issues to work thru on their own.

The idea of the military offering those sort of things isnt necessarily a mission area we should oppose. We do break and kill things BUT if we can earn alliances and nurture growth in these under developed nations then we increase by ten fold the chance we WONT have to kill and break things. This is what the navy does day in and day out around the world. It is an arm of diplomacy. Often times doctors without borders and other aid agencies can not perform their job for some of these nations because of their personal security and safety and because of access. So why recreate the wheel when a federal agency has all the required tools to get the work accomplished.

Finally if you add up ALL of the monies we spend on aid to foreign governments that give a helluva a return in relations it is merely a thousandth of a fraction of our debt. To not get such a return on investment will cost us more. Didn't any of you read and learn why Afghanistan and the Taliban happened?

Probably so. Of course the flaw in this is the notion that we can speed the process along and lift any of them straight to an appreciation of human rights and a use of some form of democracy. So long as we stay in the background, teaching not just military skills but better values, we're fine.



Who's talking about more unemployment????

That folly is the notion the popular public opinion drives. The warfighters and state do not believe it is such a 60 second soundbite situation.

I am talking about more unemployment. Whether any of you like it or not the federal government employs thousands to support these ventures that state and military conduct. Ergo if you pull out of every situation overseas you have to reduce the troops and all the support. In a time when there is one job for every five unemployed how does creating more unemployed help?

Just wait and see how long we go without "kinetic military action." This is payback because they proxied for us in Somalia.

@JayHawk: I do not suffer a messiah complex so probably am burdensomely ignorant and a "treasoner."

I am not pulling up the drawbridge on the rest of the world. I just have most of our troops on it coming home rather than going to deliver food and "the white man's message for societal progress" - a wee bit of arrogance that - while holding a gun and calling in drone strikes.

May be if we stopped meddling in every one's else business they would be better off and we could attend to our problems, which you dismiss (other than employment).

I do not dismiss our problems but disagree that allowing the past to repeat itself in nations around the world due to our inattentiveness is a good thing. COmpletion of both objectives are not mutually exclusive.

US Drone strikes in Uganda?

“In a surprise move the United States has taken its controversial drone aircraft technology to Africa…. United States military command in Africa (Africom) has confirmed that four drones are being supplied to Uganda and Burundi as part of a military aid package worth $45 million.”

They are using the drones not us. But I suppose for the surrealist who doesn't ever go out into a violent world I suppose it is easy to say if we didn't supply drones they would never possibly get weapons elsewhere.

Why are you whining about a hundred soldiers in Uganda?

The USA has soldiers in many countries where we don't need to be: Germany and South Korea to name a couple.

Is it because this is a black African country where this is suddenly becoming an issue?

UPDATE:

We have soldiers in Italy, Greece, Japan, Brazil, Bulgaria, Netherlands.... shall we start threads about those countries also?

I am usually amazed at the anti-support ideology that bubbles up whenever we talk of supporting anything in Africa.

 

[CowboyBob]

I am usually amazed at the anti-support ideology that bubbles up whenever we talk of supporting anything in Africa.

Exactly. If any country in Africa has problems we're supposed to stay out. A destitute war-torn country needs assistance, then the right wingers are running around in circles flailing their arms in the air with their "it's gonna be another Mogadishu" demagoguery.

Besides, where was the outrage when Dubya lied us into Iraq?

If the country has oil, now that's a different story..... Gotta protect those oil company profits, you know. War is good business. Invest your son. He's fighting for your freedom. But not in black Africa.

 

[palbert]

Uganda is the focus country of my comments because that is the OP's headline country topic. I don't know what "Black Africa" has to do with it. I don't doubt that my position would be the same with just about any other country.

Not to veer off-topic but see Kulindahr's comments (post #23) for action I would endorse.

 

[Jack Springer]

No one, including Obama, has answered the question in how this action is in our national interest or how we as a country are in harms way because of the Lord's Resistance Army.