Vicious circle, hardly any hope left. Who I am, what I want. Jobless, 38, virgin.

[KölnElch]

I don't even know where to start. Maybe with the reason why I post this here.
I am in psychotherapy for quite a long time now, and it helped me already in many aspects about my life. I am not "sick", but need the professional support to guide me through things. But there are some things that I rather discuss with fellow gay men, rather with a therapist who's doing her job. Also I post this to express myself, to let out what's stuck in my head and my soul. And maybe you can give me a bit of hope back, or show me a step out of that vicious circle.

Trying to put my issue into one line is impossible, because so many difficult aspects about me are at play, so I hope you bear with that long monologue.

Now let me get to the point: I am 38, soon turning 39, and have never been close with a man. Neither sexually, nor romantically. All I had were some minor experiences (kissing), in which I fooled myself, as honestly I never felt anything for these guys, I was rushing it, actually I was just doing it to just check it off my list finally. It felt completely wrong. I was fooling myself and the respective guys. I don't want to repeat that, and I definitely don't want to do similar regarding my first sex. I never want to fool myself or another guy again. I want things to be for the sake of the other person. Not for the sake of the act.

Many people, most of my friends, wonder why I never had sex. Thing is, I don't want to have sex just for the sake of it. I want to have sex with someone I'm really attracted to and who I feel well with. I don't need to be in love for that, but I need to feel comfortable. I never met such a person, at least noone who could return the feelings, or who's still available (or gay, etc.).

It takes two.

But I myself alone had enough issues about it as well. So I think these are reasons why I was never "ready" for sex before:

1. Insecurity, a bit of fear, something that probably most gay guys won't be able to understand. I have already been working a lot on that, and think I'm on a good way.

2. Due to an endocrine disorder, my whole physical development was much delayed, compared to guys my age. I had my first orgasm at the age of 20. I only got into puberty at an age where others already had jobs, maybe even married and got children.
As a consequence, everything was delayed in my life, even despite good medical treatment. By the time I came out of what I call *my* puberty, I was about 25-30. Due to other situations in my life, I was all alone most of that time, left without friends, as I was very shy ever since I left the boarding school. My whole social network broke away after I left school, and I developed quite a social disorder on top of all that, meaning that I became too shy to meet new people. Eventually I made great new friends though, and I know that I am loved by my close friends. And I do have a lot of gay friends. But now again, I have issues to meet new people, more about that further down.

3. It took me years of thinking, to find out what I would feel well with, to find out what I really want. Read more below.

4. At times, I had a lot of issues with my looks. I used to despise myself. Something that my therapy successfully ended.

5. I am close to my family. My parents know about me being gay, I had no big issues with my coming out. However, that also means being close to my dad, and I have issues with him. Many people have. He always manages to get one's self-esteem way down. And he still does it with me as well. He's good in psycho terror. In fact, he is sick. He is having psychic issues, untreated. However, I am very close to my mum, so that's a dilemma. My parents are nearly 80, and that's a time when you just can't turn further away from them. But I have to take care of my own life as well, and that feels like a paradox. I need to be available for my parents in the future, but I also need to sort out my life. My job situation. My lack of a man. My urge to do art and music. I can't divide myself into two persons though.

So what do I want in a man?

I think I finally know. At least, lately I found out a few things about myself. And I want to be true to myself.

1. I don't expect a hollywood style love story. I don't expect falling in love at all. It's not my criteria. I just need to be attracted to a guy, and equally important, to feel well, close to him. To get on well with him. I don't even need to talk a lot to feel well with someone. But I can.

2. I have tried to "educate" myself to change that, but no, in the end I'm just fooling myself again: I do prefer much younger guys, mostly in their early twenties. It's not even much about "prefering", it's that with guys in their late 30s or older, I might only develop sexual feelings, but I am usualy not interested in guys my age at all. As little as I'm interested in women. As much as I'm gay, I'm into younger guys. I was scared of it being considered as filthy, sick and wrong, when an older man is interested in younger ones. But I can't change it, as much as I can't change being gay.

And that brings more problems along.

People say, the cliché says, young guys can only be interested in older ones, because of their financial stability, or their experience regarding sex and relationships.

You can't tick those boxes in my situation.
I am long-term jobless. I don't have any experience with men.

Some of the reasons above also explain why I am long-term jobless. Insecurity. Low self-esteem. I have a university degree, but in a "useless" arts degree. I am a musician, writing own songs, I am very confident about them, but never found the right people to start a proper band with, when I was still in an age when it's acceptable. Music is all I ever really wanted to do for a living, and it seems I can't.
Then, there was a point some years ago, when I finally got over my fear of applying for a job. I applied for a job. It was a good one, with a reputable company. I loved doing it. But due to things out of my control, things went wrong, and I got fired within the same year.

This left me traumatized about the job world. Thankfully I have financial stability from my family, but it made my self-esteem even lower, to the point that I can't introduce myself to people, because I'm afraid they would ask me about my job, and judge me negatively because of my financial background. I had a friend who was jealous because of this. He started to be very respectless to me. He started to provoke me, insult me. I had to end the friendship finally, after I noticed he was bitching about me on a public place on the internet. I finally got - what I think was - a nervous breakdown.
He basically confirmed my fears. He confirmed that I must be afraid of meeting new people, because they would only show their disrespect towards me. That they wouldn't even try to see the person behind the label "jobless". I need to get onto my own feet, financially. I know that. But the least I need in that situation is to be confronted with disrespect, as it's only feeding the vicious circle I'm stuck in.

Recovering and insights

So I fell into another hole, and had to take up my therapy again, after a 5 year break. A few weeks ago, I felt my self-esteem getting into shape again. After a long time, I finally regained some belief that I would manage to find an "attractive" guy who would love me. And that's where I also came to the conclusion that I can only be romantic, amorous, with a younger guy. Also, a guy my age won't be a guy "my age". The number would match, but I would always be a minor compared to his experience, career, and physical development history. I also do look younger than my age, and it's bound to my hormonal background.

Also, I went back in time and remembered me as a young boy of 13/14 years. Back then, in my fantasies, I was always an older man with a much younger boyfriend. When I was 13/14, I was into guys in their early 20s. When I was 23, I was into guys in their early 20s. Now I am 38, and I'm into guys in their early 20s. To me it all makes sense. Why should I force it to change? But it's considered creepy. And I don't want to creep anyone. I'd rather hide in my place before I would scare someone. And a few months ago, I was finally just happy with my looks, but now I'm balding, so the story begins anew. My hair began to become thinner on the top. I wouldn't have issues with getting wrinkles or grey hair, but a bald head… noone will ever convince me that it's hot. But I need some self-esteem. I need to be able to love my body, but I just can't see why someone who's hotter than me could love me. People who look like myself wouldn't interest me at all. Tricky.

Final words

After all the complicated stuff and vicious circles, my medical background, my financial background, my lack of experience, after all that, I surely come over as a "weirdo" to you guys, but I must add that people who met me *after* they heard my stories, are surprised how normal I am, after all. And I just want to be normal. I don't want to be a weirdo. And I don't want my sexual fulfillment to be dependent on the money that I don't have. I don't want to do what my therapist suggested, i.e. renting an escort. I want someone who loves me and takes me just as I am. This doesn't mean I'll allow myself to be lazy. I will work out (for health reasons as well), I will take care of my situation.

I will fight for my future man.

I am intelligent. I am creative. I am loveable. I have a value. And I ask for respect, despite all my downsides.

And I just want a guy who I like, and who likes me. Someone to feel well with each other, and close to each other. Someone to travel with. Someone to watch the stars in the sky with. Someone to cuddle with. Someone I can have fun with, but also someone who I can give warmth and support in hard times, and receive that, too. Someone who deserves my first sex, but also someone who can accept exactly that, and who can bring up enough understanding for the situation. A fuck buddy, a love relationship, or my future husband - or something in between. But I have hardly any hope left, considering all the points above. As I don't even know how to introduce myself to anyone I meet.

I don't want to rush things, I don't want to do things to check them off my list. But I want to be able to believe, I want to be ready, if I get a chance eventually. I want to be ready for it, if I meet the man who I (mutually) want to have love and sex with, for the sake of the man, and not for the sake of the act.

Maybe you can give a perspective in all the mess I'm stuck in.

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

You seem to have done a whole lot of thinking about your condition. Now do something about it.

 

[weinerslav]

You seem to have defined all that you want and need, and that is very important. What you ask is more than fair, and there are a lot of guys out there that are incapable of giving a third of that! You just need to find someone worthy, it may take a bit but you need to put yourself out there, if you're shy online dating may help, but you need to be proactive, you'll meet a few guys and maybe nothing will happen, but you never know who will you meet...

 

[KölnElch]

I know I need to do something, but finding a point to focus on, or where to start, is the tricky part of it all.

I'm shy indeed, at least when it's about guys who I find hot or cute. I have the silly reflex of looking away, once I notice he's looking back at me.
Also, especially since most younger guys probably feel uncomfortable with older men approaching them, I'm more than hesistant in approaching one. I actually hardly ever did, I don't want to make him feel uncomfortable because of me. :/

The thing about online dating is, I partially have (had?) issues with it. But then, I met 90% of my real friends over the internet first, so maybe it's also the right place to "look for a man", but knowing what people often say.. like.. "he doesn't come when you search for him". I don't know. But he didn't come either in recent years, when I wasn't searching for a man.

I'm not sure if something like grindr would be right for me, I assume everyone else is sharing their cocks there (which I'd have no issues with, if my future man would do that), but I wouldn't want to share nudes of myself. Wonder if that's still worth it then, to go on dating sites or apps, without sharing nude pics... I wouldn't want to be reduced to my cock. It's not a bad one. I just don't feel like posting it.

But I guess it's hard to tell which of my downsides might actually be an issue for a guy. I guess that can vary from man to man, and sometimes I believe that somone I'm attracted to will just love (or "take") me as I am, but often I'm pessimistic and just afraid that it's wishful thinking, and that it will never actually happen.

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

I know I need to do something, but finding a point to focus on, or where to start, is the tricky part of it all.

Start. It doesn't matter where. It's later than you think.

- - - Updated - - -

I know I need to do something, but finding a point to focus on, or where to start, is the tricky part of it all.

Start. It doesn't matter where. It's later than you think.

 

[KaraBulut]

So, basically you're wanting to skip the training wheels, the skinned knees and go straight to the Tour de France?

It doesn't work that way.

Part of having a successful relationship is having a few not-so-successful relationships. Part of finding a good partner is throwing out a few not-so-great boyfriends. Part of being a good lover is having a lot of crappy and not-so-perfect sex along the way.

While it's obvious that you have put some thought into what you want, it's also apparent that you have a bit of analysis-paralysis. It's a lot easier to think about life than it is to live it...

 

[borg69unimatrix]

So, basically you're wanting to skip the training wheels, the skinned knees and go straight to the Tour de France?

It doesn't work that way.

Part of having a successful relationship is having a few not-so-successful relationships. Part of finding a good partner is throwing out a few not-so-great boyfriends. Part of being a good lover is having a lot of crappy and not-so-perfect sex along the way.

While it's obvious that you have put some thought into what you want, it's also apparent that you have a bit of analysis-paralysis. It's a lot easier to think about life than it is to live it...

Excellent advice. I agree, the OP has mapped out HIS wants, needs, desires, while never a mention to what he will GIVE to a relationship. My observation here is the OP speculates on what He thinks/fears will/might happen with little basis in facts or experience.

The water might be cold. It might be shallow. It might have predators. It might have rocks, currents, branches, ... at some point you have to stop speculating and either wade in or jump in. You cannot learn to swim by reading about it. It takes practice and actual application. You can wear water wings and start in the low end of the pool but you gotta get wet.

 

[KölnElch]

I usually like to wait and read a couple of posts in a thread before replying, but now I feel I have to, to get some things "straight" first.

It's later than you think.

I know exactly how late things are, otherwise I wouldn't have made a big topic about my age and how things got delayed. If that's not what you mean, maybe you can explain.

So, basically you're wanting to skip the training wheels, the skinned knees and go straight to the Tour de France?

It doesn't work that way.

Part of being a good lover is having a lot of crappy and not-so-perfect sex along the way.

I have quite some gay friends who are still happily with their first boyfriends, after 5-10 years. I also know quite some gay friends who have lots of one night stands and went through several relationships. I know both, so I don't know why you state this like it's a natural law.

Also, I never said that I'd expect my first man to be the man for life. I never said that I'd expect my first relationship to be working.

What I said is:

1. I don't expect a hollywood style love story. I don't expect falling in love at all. It's not my criteria. I just need to be attracted to a guy, and equally important, to feel well, close to him. To get on well with him.

That's about getting started, not about how long I expect things to last. I am all aware that it can go wrong. It might go right, also. But if I were to believe that my first relationship was bound to go wrong and end horrible and give me "skinned knees", how is that gonna get me motivated to meet that first man? I know it can go wrong. I also know it can go all right for quite some years. But I never expect it to be for life.

Excellent advice.

Where exactly?

the OP has mapped out HIS wants, needs, desires, while never a mention to what he will GIVE to a relationship

Sorry, you're wrong. Most things I said are mutual things, so it of course always involves me giving something. And as said, for example:

"someone who I can give warmth and support in hard times"

Maybe you missed that?
Of course I will want to give something. I might want to give more than I want to receive, but why should it matter in this thread? I can mostly just tell you my desires, as it's my post, and my situation explained. I don't know my future man yet. People have individual needs, so depending on what kind of man I once might have, I might want to give something completely different. For example, if he has issues, I am more than willing to offer him my help, to talk about stuff. If he wants to learn something about stuff I'm good in, I'll introduce him to it. If there are big differences between us, I'll work hard on my own tolerance, as long as it's nothing unbearable. But that all depends on what he wants, or what our relationship needs! I can't list general things in here about what I want to give, as that depends on the individual needs of my assumed future man, or our specific relationship. I don't have a crystal ball nor can I look into the future otherwise.

My observation here is the OP speculates on what He thinks/fears will/might happen with little basis in facts or experience.

Yep, and here you are right. So far, I can only speculate. Fantasize. Whatever you wanna call it. I had way too much time to do so, but I'm willing to experience things that I haven't gone through in my head yet.

All in all, I am thankful for advices how to change the situation I'm in, how to approach getting out of this vicious circle before I'm 50 or 60, as these things surely won't become easier with time.

To say it with borg69unimatrix's words... I would like to get into that water, that's why I opened this thread. I didn't open this thread to leave everything as it is.

So I hope that - as I said - someone can give me an impulse that would make a difference for me, and change my attitude about that topic for the better.

 

[Ganoderma]

I know I need to do something, but finding a point to focus on, or where to start, is the tricky part of it all.

(...). I met 90% of my real friends over the internet first, so maybe it's also the right place to "look for a man", but knowing what people often say.. like.. "he doesn't come when you search for him". I don't know. But he didn't come either in recent years, when I wasn't searching for a man.


I'm not sure if something like grindr would be right for me, I assume everyone else is sharing their cocks there (which I'd have no issues with, if my future man would do that), but I wouldn't want to share nudes of myself. Wonder if that's still worth it then, to go on dating sites or apps, without sharing nude pics... I wouldn't want to be reduced to my cock. (..). I just don't feel like posting it. (..).

hi KölnElch,

I fail to understand why you should present nude pics of yourself on dating sites when you feel uncomfortable to share such pics with other guys. Please note that there are no fixed rules how guys must present themself on a dating site. So make a profile of yourself on a dating site / on grindr (or whatever) without nude pics. Please note that you have several real life gay friends which you met online.

 

[eastofeden]

IMO...and I am simplifying it on purpose ...you need to get out of your own way....

I would work on that if I were in your shoes....

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

I know exactly how late things are, otherwise I wouldn't have made a big topic about my age and how things got delayed. If that's not what you mean, maybe you can explain.

 

[Seasoned]

If I were you I'd begin by finding a gay therapist and/or group therapy with gay men. Given your situation your not "delayed" except when comparing yourself to someone that hit benchmarks at what is considered the typical age. You need to find ways to pick yourself up and take risks in small, safe ways at first in order to build confidence.

Keep in mind that there's a difference between your fantasy man and reality. When it comes to long term commitment fantasy is sometimes left behind for other important qualities.

Best wishes.

 

[palemale]

You're only 38. If your health is good, you could easily live to 80 or more. So, remember, you still have a lot of living to do. Don't dwell on the past. I know it's easier said than done sometimes. However, focusing on what you think you missed out on in life is a sure way to continue to miss out on life.

 

[TX-Beau]

Find a therapist, you're making a whole lot of excuses for paralysis and nothing will ever change until you do something. I suspect we can't help you.

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

Find a therapist, you're making a whole lot of excuses for paralysis and nothing will ever change until you do something. I suspect we can't help you.

The OP mentions that he has been having psychotherapy, I think he should just go out and find out what to do about the things he thinks he wants.