Violent Crimes In The US

[Puzuzzu]

Americans have nothing to be honest, true power lies in Europe (and Canada too).
look at literacy rates, education, jobs etc.
America isn't a global power anymore.

 

[Pushover]

This reminds me of a quote I used to have in my signature:

Why is it that, as a society, are we more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands?

 

[2243]

And we're taught as kids if someone hits you, you are supposed to hit them back. Walking away from a fight makes you a punk, loser, etc. This is what's being fed to some kids and then we all wonder why they grow up to become mass murderers or what have you.

That's what I was thinking. If you just went to school you should be familiar with this type of mentality: If someone does something bad to you then you need to get them back! Don't just tell on them, do everything and anything because they started it and they deserve it - two wrongs make one right after all! Seems obvious that would lead to a stupid cycle of hatred/violence, but even with those statistics, I do wonder if that mentality is only natural to most people regardless of region or wether it's only emotionally driven.

 

[rareboy]

Actually, I have to say that I'm bored to distraction with navel gazing discussions about violence and crime in the US.

Start cleaning up the mess you've made with the country and stop analyzing it.

 

[Puzuzzu]

Can the ethnic background of a society be in part responsible..

WO don't hit me with a brick this is in no way a racist comment please.

I agree....partially at least...

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

1) The two big reasons that American crime is so high is because a) We're a relatively large country (excluding certain Asian countries), and b) we tend to report it more often. After all, when you know the person is more likely to survive the jail sentence, you tend to have less fear of reporting him.

2) I would also dispute your interpretations. You can't say, for example, black youths getting arrested 15% of the time, while only representing 12% of the population, would imply that they are getting arrested more often than whites. I also think that you aren't allowing for gang violence and how many of those arrests that it represents. I think that if you eliminated the "gangsta" culture, you would see black stats come into line with white stats...

RG

 

[MrBarbrey]

We gotta be feared and respected?

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

how would the numbers omit black gang-violence when violence is a part of the statistic?

What I said was that it would be interesting to see what would happen if you eliminated black gangs.

and are you forgetting about corporate crimes?

Nope. Just allowing that corporate crime is such a minor part of the picture as to be almost non-existent.

and how is 15% NOT greater than 12%? you're saying someone who, statistically gets arrested more, doesn't get arrested more?

No. You said that blacks and white were getting arrested about the same, even while posting that 15% of those arrested were black...

i'm confused. i don't understand how "eliminating gangster culture would bring the black stats in line with whites. that statement simply isn't processing in my mind.

I'm sorry; I'm thinking urban black gangs. The ones that throw pies around probably don't get arrested much...

RG

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

[What I said was that it would be interesting to see what would happen if you eliminated black gangs.

it would only reduce a fraction of the crimes

It would only have to eliminate 20% of the arrests....

Nope. Just allowing that corporate crime is such a minor part of the picture as to be almost non-existent.

you sure about that??

Although corporate crimes have a bigger effect financially, very few arrests are actually made. That's why they usually tend to make the news...

A)why are you convinced that these gangs are only black?? or are you only focusing on black gangs

I'm only focusing on black gangs; the stats you gave looked at black vs. white, so I figured pointing out a way to eliminate some of the arrests would be appropriate. You have a culture that promotes violence, racism, misogynism, not talking to cops, and bad music; I figured that eliminating at least part of the gangster culture would eliminate some of the arrests...

B)what the hell does that pie comment mean? i think i see what you're getting at but it seems irrelevant.

It was basic sarcasm. Duh.

so far you've only spoken in speculation and opinion, some of which is contradicted by the FACTS i've posted. anything you got to back up your opinions cuz they seem unfounded for the most part.

Not unfounded; I'm just looking at reasons behind the statistics that I consider relevant. I'm hoping you provided the statistics for some sort of meaningful discussion rather than hijacking the thread.

Besides, what facts show that there is no such thing as gang violence? A lot of urban cops would love to see that one...

your lack of evidence or facts is making this a difficult discussion to navigate. we need facts, not "i think black people are" or "what if we" unless those statements are based on some level of truth.

My line of reasoning is based on the facts that there is a disparity between black and white arrests, that there is more gang violence among blacks than whites, and the simple math that if you eliminated black violence you would also eliminate a lot of the arrests. In other words, I'm not interested solely in the statistics presented, but why there is a disparity, and if there is a way to bring the statistics into line with each other.

There is a lot more to a situation than mere statistics; I'm more interested in the reasons behind those statistics, and if there is a way to change those statistics...

RG

 

[rareboy]

interesting, i'm detecting undertones of minority=criminal. i'd love to know how you guys suggest ending something you clearly don't understand. studies suggest CLASS (ie lower, middle, upper) has MORE to do with crime than race. and there are many crimes where white men make a large majority of the culprits. race is damn-near irrelevant in relation to crime

Interesting that you would choose this end of the stick to grab. My post has nothing at all about race or social structure.

It was about the American obsession with parsing crime through endless 24 hour per day analysis of the problem because it seems as though it is far more important to find someone or something to blame than to solve the problem.

Ancient Sumeria, Egypt, Rome, China, the British Empire, France, and probably just about every other warlike, materialist civilization and society on earth has had problems with crime. From the code of Hammurabai, with St. Augustine and the ten commandments along the way, the notion of crime and punishment has preoccupied every society. The Americans seem to think that it is something that can be eradicated. It can't. Lust, greed, envy, sloth, pride, wrath and gluttony are part of our soul.

The cultural underpinnings in any society are going to dictate the nature of what constitutes crime and how we view crime; they define not only what crime is, but which type of crimes are considered glamourous or vile beyond acceptance. We no longer are allowed to kill our own spouses or children or slaves with no consequence. We no longer hang someone for stealing bread, or brand Adulterers. We no longer have blood feuds that permit dueling and honour killings of those who have wronged our tribe. We frown on assassination and genocide. One hundred years from now, a mugging may once again actually be regarded as a serious capital offense, while drug use may be decriminalized and cheating on taxes or running a pyramid scam may be the fabric of the lives of sweet little old ladies baking cookies. Sanctioned extermination of entire countries may be the norm.

...but you and others immediately chose to make this discussion about race. And that is one of the reasons that I'm bored to distraction with the American preoccupation with endlessly talking about crime.

 

[2243]

^ Ok. So basically, with your knowledge and analysis of history you think it's only natural too.

Marley, I think you took a particular sentence the wrong way:

Start cleaning up the mess you've made with the country and stop analyzing it.

I believe rareboy meant "you Americans" and not any race in particular. I admit I also became easily distracted when this topic switched to race. Although, with due respect rareboy, I might have been less acerbic with my words and maybe more compassionate as I believe violence and crime afflicts my species not my region, but that's just me.

 

[woaini]

Be grateful, America is not bad on that.