Walker is doing the job he was elected to do

[chance1]

Looks like with > 1 million sigs, Gov. Walker is in a dogfight to stay in office - that's clear.

There's been a lot of "shouting" by progressives about just what Gov. Walker has done

Bottom line is that the power of public employee unions is crippling cities and states across the country - and most all responsible governors have responded by attempting to make pension reform, hiring/firing practice reform, etc. - IN ORDER TO HELP THE CITIZENS OF THEIR STATES

So what has Gov. Walker done that's made him the devil of the Main Stream Media?

He's made public employees pay more to their health and pension benefits (pension was previously zero paid in by employees)

He has taken benefits away from the bargaining process - and made only wages bargain-able

He has ended mandatory dues collection - guess what unions do with those dues? support cronies in political positions to back their position

Bottom line is Wisconsin is better off - schools are doing better - with LESS jobs loss than the union claimed would happen - and savings on things like health insurance that previously the unions managed (badly I might add)

Maybe Walker is not a saint

But this is a witch hunt

At the expense of the taxpaying public - THAT WOULD BE YOU (you get my drift)

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinio...s_unseat_wisconsin_gov_rfV85DwJt50n8UrkIhC16H

 

[JayHawk]

What amazes me is the left crying foul where there are liberal cities and states that are doing the same cutting of benefits and wages for the unions and city employees.

You will never see an article posted about it here though.

I will be interested to see the way the recall vote goes. If you look back at Wisconsin they are usually fairly evenly divided republican and democrat. So seeing that and knowing the strength of unions to organize the 1million sigs would be fairly easy to get.

The vote to recall him may not go so well however.

 

[evanrick]

what? your not serious...
why cant he make a deal?
why does he have to cut unions off at their knees?

isnt the point of collective bargaining to BARGAIN.

Oh wait, the public employees DID OFFER to renegotiate their contracts, but didn't walker refuse?

Recall the son of a bitch.

 

[evanrick]

What amazes me is the left crying foul where there are liberal cities and states that are doing the same cutting of benefits and wages for the unions and city employees.

You will never see an article posted about it here though.

those liberal cities didnt demonize unions or need an asshat governor to push his corporate agenda.

 

[chance1]

^ perhaps he was NOT adept at the "dialoguing" as say Chris Christie

or perhaps he didn't have as many allies or "blue dog" types

but the issue is the same all over the country

IOU's to public employees that exceed available funds
pension bennies that are NOT funded at all by individuals
Health bennies that are NOT funded nearly as high as private sector

you're right that teachers, cops, public workers SHOULD NOT be demonized

but they should pay their fair share

is all

fair as defined by "reasonable"

 

[evanrick]

bargain at the bargaining table or be taken out at the ballot box. we had the same thing happen in my district. when will people realize that unions are GOOD?

 

[Seasoned]

Walker just politicized the state's veterans administration which has caused members of the board to resign. Now the vets are shit on. How bad does he want to be recalled? By the way he rose to power at the Milwaukee County Board due to a recall so it worked for him once, but hopefully not again.

He came to office with a hidden agenda, the same one that seems to have been hatched in some Republican black hole that only comes to light when Republican governors have Republican legislatures, more guns, no abortions, no gay rights, no unions, charter schools supplanting public schools, voting restrictions, and less tax on the wealthy. Sounds really scary to me.

 

[chance1]

bargain at the bargaining table or be taken out at the ballot box. we had the same thing happen in my district. when will people realize that unions are GOOD?

Unions CAN BE good

I think it's pretty clear that today ..................

Unions can be just as detrimental to the US as some big predatory big businesses

Taking in dues
Buying politicians
Not being reasonable as it relates to benefits/work rules, etc.

Sure, local, city and state officials have a hand in it - giving up too much over the years

But the IDEA of unions was to PROTECT workers

not bring municipalities to their knees

which is what is happening today all over the country which is why governors like Walker are doing what they're doing - what they were voted in office to do - what they need to do

some better than others

 

[CowboyBob]

So he was elected to bust unions? I don't think so....

If he ran on that platform the Wisconsin voters would have pushed him off in front of the train.

 

[chance1]

^ "busting" unions is just a clever term to rile up those who refuse to look at the #s

which are strangling municipalities and states across the country

not sure why you don't expect union employees to live with the same rules as private sector employees

as it relates to benefits and such

 

[palemale]

^ "busting" unions is just a clever term to rile up those who refuse to look at the #s

which are strangling municipalities and states across the country

not sure why you don't expect union employees to live with the same rules as private sector employees

as it relates to benefits and such

Public sector employees do not live by the same rules as private sector employees. All private sector employees, for example, have the right to strike. Most public sector employees do not.

The state unilaterally, by legislation, cut employee benefits and unilaterally imposed new terms on their health benefits. Moreover, the state is prohibiting collective bargaining over benefits. It would be unlawful for a private employer to unilaterally change benefits and to refuse to bargain over benefits.

 

[chance1]

Public sector employees do not live by the same rules as private sector employees. All private sector employees, for example, have the right to strike. Most public sector employees do not.

The state unilaterally, by legislation, cut employee benefits and unilaterally imposed new terms on their health benefits. Moreover, the state is prohibiting collective bargaining over benefits. It would be unlawful for a private employer to unilaterally change benefits and to refuse to bargain over benefits.

i guess i would as what those "unilateral imposed" new terms were? did they take it from individual pays nada to something reasonable? something that is similar to/less than what private sector employees pay?

if so, then ...........

I'm not saying
MGMT/GOVT good
Unions bad

I'm saying that public sector employees who don't pay or pay a fair amt. of benefits .........

should do so

and that municipalities and states should not be ruined financially (thus hurting the taxpayers) by union requirements that don't reflect the reasonability test

that was not the basis for the creation or existence of unions

 

[shainski]

I doubt that there is any real chance that Walker will actually lose.

I also doubt that there are anywhere near a million valid signatures on the recall petitions, although there may be enough to go forward with an actual recall.

Walker was voted in as Milwaukee County Executive in a recall of Tom Ament - who screwed over Milwaukee County residents with unbelievable pension deals - that he, himself, was to benefit from. (People here in this democratic stronghold wanted ament out of any office)

Wisconsinites suffered under a corrupt governor the last eight years - no way would he have survived another election.

The public unions would never have negotiated with Walker until it became clear that they would lose collective bargaining for non-wage issues.

A lot of out-of-state money is fueling this whole process in Wisconsin (on both sides).

Living here - right in the middle of all this - and seeing the mess our neighboring state - Illinois - which took a very different path - and is on its way to bankruptcy - residents here aren't as angry as it may seem from the outside.

 

[JayHawk]

I doubt that there is any real chance that Walker will actually lose.

I also doubt that there are anywhere near a million valid signatures on the recall petitions, although there may be enough to go forward with an actual recall.

Walker was voted in as Milwaukee County Executive in a recall of Tom Ament - who screwed over Milwaukee County residents with unbelievable pension deals - that he, himself, was to benefit from. (People here in this democratic stronghold wanted ament out of any office)

Wisconsinites suffered under a corrupt governor the last eight years - no way would he have survived another election.

The public unions would never have negotiated with Walker until it became clear that they would lose collective bargaining for non-wage issues.

A lot of out-of-state money is fueling this whole process in Wisconsin (on both sides).

Living here - right in the middle of all this - and seeing the mess our neighboring state - Illinois - which took a very different path - and is on its way to bankruptcy - residents here aren't as angry as it may seem from the outside.

That is a refreshing viewpoint.

 

[Kulindahr]

[Quoted Post: Removed by Moderator]

One lie here is pretending Walker needed this to get the unions to pay for things -- they'd already agreed to that.

Another lie is that unions are the problem: public employee union benefits tend to be written into law by the legislature. It's dishonest to blame the unions when it was the legislature that approved all those perks.

As for collective bargaining that's a right, for the same reason marriage is a right -- it's freedom of association.

 

[chance1]

One lie here is pretending Walker needed this to get the unions to pay for things -- they'd already agreed to that.

Another lie is that unions are the problem: public employee union benefits tend to be written into law by the legislature. It's dishonest to blame the unions when it was the legislature that approved all those perks.

As for collective bargaining that's a right, for the same reason marriage is a right -- it's freedom of association.

you live in a fantasy world inhabited with good guys and bad guys

no gray

unions inherently are not the problem

unions that abuse their power are

you're right in that legislatures have "agreed" to all

after being pressured/threatened/bought - pick one or more

that doesn't make it right

do you think state employees should pay $0 for pension benefits?
do you think that state employees should have health benefits 1/4 to 1/2 of the % that private sector
do you think that teachers should have jobs for life?

let me know

 

[Kulindahr]

I think unions should not be used as scapegoats and their members' rights be negated for the political agenda of reactionaries. I especially think lies should not be told as part of the effort to demonize unions.

I would have just gone with a law that the payments by public employees for their benefits would be set at the median for the same in the private sector for the prior fiscal year -- and include the legislators in that.

Of course I would have also put that in as part of a law setting public employee salaries at the median of comparable positions in the private sector.

Plus declaring all income the same, all taxed on one scale -- no capital gains or anything else.

 

[Jack Springer]

Bottom line - there is noting wrong with people paying into their own retirement and health care systems.

If it's all free -- the recipients are screwing someone. In this case it is their fellow Wisconsin residents.

 

[shainski]

Johann, you are not correct.

I Live here in Wisconsin - and I knew what agenda the republicans were running on. I can't imagine that many people did not. And if you knew what the previous governor (Jim Doyle) had left as a legacy - people here were ready for big change from that. He left such a sour taste in peoples' mouths that they were ready for a totally different direction. (And it wasn't just wisconsin - you saw what the whole Pelosi/Reed agenda did to almost every State in that 2010 election).

The "RecallScottWalker.com" website was registered immediately after the election - not in response to any legislation.

Union workers may very well be good for the nation - but public service union workers are paid with money taxed from the private sector. If there is no private sector - then ultimately there will be no public sector. (See Greece)

 

[shainski]

There were very few unions that actively supported Walker - some police and firefighter unions did. I have no interest in lying to you. I live here.

And you are going too far when you say he was "busting all the unions". The only unions that had any impact were the public unions.

Compared to most other states and even the federal government - Wisconsin public unions had far more that they could collectively bargain for.

And many of the unions were able to get themselves benefits that went under the radar. One of the most egregious was the create of their own insurance company for health insurance that charged far more than competing bids from other insurers. But in many localities, the unions insisted on their own captive company.

I'm just telling you that a lot of residents were disgusted with the government controlled by the democrats. I'm not saying that they are in love with the republicans. But if the democrats hope to win, they better offer something better than what was given to us the last eight years.